Vanity, newbie, first post, no replies, no link. Troll or no Troll?I report, you decide .....
Please let me know if you want ON or OFF my Viking Kitty/ZOT ping list!. . .don't be shy.
Posted on 08/20/2004 3:48:36 PM PDT by KMB
There is a group of Americans who genuinely despise the United States. This group probably comprises 10-12% of the American people in total and about 20-25% of the left side of the political spectrum in America and these individuals truly, deeply, unabashedly and unconditionally and viscerally loathe the United States. Specifically, they believe that this country was based on slavery, genocide, segregation, robber-baron capitalism, exploitation of the worker class and a Puritan ethic and value system that they view as far more extreme than any particular brand or type of Islamic fundamentalism.
To that end, they believe that American institutions are inherently evil and that they promote racism, racial discrimination, sexism, sexual discrimination, homophobia, poverty in the US and around the world, inequality, social Darwinism, war, militarism and destruction of the environment. The institutions that these people – the fanatic America haters – so revile are economic, military and political and they focus their hatred of those institutions in that order.
With regard to American economic institutions, the America haters loathe the capitalist free-market system and they particularly despise American corporations and businesses. Specifically, they believe that corporations and businesses dominate the economic and social life of the republic and that they are not entitled to do so. They believe that businesses produce unsafe products and promote consumerism and social Darwinism. More on point, they believe that businesses essentially promote unnecessary and even dangerous products to an unsophisticated and unsuspecting public and that the consumerism that they promote forces individuals to live a debt-ridden life and work in jobs that they hate. The America-haters believe that these businesses have created an America in which the overwhelming majority of individuals live a slave-like existence one paycheck away from destitution with inadequate healthcare while a small minority gets rich.
They believe that executives and directors who run American corporations and the investor class and the managers of the financial markets who own and support American corporations are evil criminals. Specifically, the America haters believe that this elite group holds all real power in America and they favor a flat-out revolution against these people.
With regard to American military and political institutions (namely the political parties and the GOP in particular), the America haters believe that both are puppets of American corporations and businesses. Specifically, they believe that the political interests run the government on behalf of and to the benefit of corporations and that the military wages wars of aggression to increase profits of these corporations and to expand the influence of American corporations and the elite who run them over the rest of the world.
The America haters also believe that the United States is and has been the focus of all evil throughout the world for the past 200 years. To that end, these people can make and do make arguments that effectively blame the United States for the slave trade, the subjugation and plight of the people of sub-Saharan West Africa, World War I, the genocide in Armenia, the rise of Joseph Stalin, the Great Depression, the rise of Adolf Hitler, the rise of Japanese militarism, World War II, the Holocaust, the Cold War, the Israel/Palestine conflict, the arms race, the Vietnam War, the genocide in Cambodia, the rise of Islamic extremism, the rise of Saddam Hussein, the spread of AIDS and the development and creation of bin Laden’s terror network. Specifically, the America haters are able to draw a series of causative links between the actions of the United States government (which they believe is and always has been dominated by business interests) and each of the events listed above. In this sense, the America haters believe that each of these events is the fault and responsibility of the United States.
There are three major items about American history that the America haters particularly despise – the American Revolution, the war against Japan and the Cold War containment of the Soviet Union. The American Revolution is probably the event that they most abhor. They loathe America’s founding fathers and they thoroughly disdain what they did and what they stood for. Specifically, they believe that the Minute Men in the Militias and the men in George Washington’s Continental and the Colonial leaders were standing and fighting for a racist and evil cause and that there was little difference between these men and the current members of Al Qaeda. The America haters think that the Declaration of Independence was an extremist document and that the signatories were racists, hypocrites and criminals.
The America haters believe that the war against Japan was a vicious racist vendetta against an idealistic people trying to regain their national identity after having been corrupted by the United States. They believe that the US provoked this war and that the attack on Pearl Harbor was justified and that the American response which included unrestricted submarine warfare against commercial vessels and air bombardment of Japanese cities were the true war crimes. They believe that the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were barbaric crimes against humanity and they refuse to acknowledge a link between those attacks and the end of the war.
The beliefs of the America haters with regard to the Cold War are a dichotomy in that they abhor the United States for having caused the collapse of the Soviet Union yet refuse to acknowledge that the United States won the Cold War. Specifically, the America haters believed that the United States was the aggressor in the Cold War and that the Soviets had the superior economic and political system. They also believe that the Soviets achieved military and strategic superiority but that their investment in the military caused internal problems which ultimately led to the Soviet Union’s collapse. These people bemoan and lament the collapse of the Soviet Union and they now speak of that former empire with a sense of nostalgia and idealism.
The America haters also oppose (usually with a high degree of ferocity) American foreign policy and national security policy on almost all major issues. Specifically, they opposed the Vietnam War, opposed the deployment of Pershing missiles in Western Europe, opposed Strategic Defense Initiative, opposed aid to the Nicaraguan Contra rebels in the 1980’s, opposed the Gulf War, opposed (secretly) the War in Afghanistan, opposed the invasion of Iraq and opposed the US support of Israel during the during the past three and a half years since the Palestinians launched Infintada.
For the America haters, it seems to be less an issue of ideology than psychology that they oppose the United States and support those who stand against the US. To that end, their favorite world leader is Fidel Castro. The best days in the lives of these people were in April 1975 when the US abandoned it’s embassy in Saigon and the South Vietnamese capital was overrun effectively ending the Vietnam War and in April 2000 when Elian Gonzales was returned to live in Cuba. The worst days in the lives of these people were in April 1990 when an anti-communist, pro-American party defeated the pro-communist, anti-American regime in free elections in Nicaragua and in December 2003 when Saddam Hussein was captured.
In recent years as the United States has asserted it’s military and political might, the alienation and disgruntlement of the America haters has grown exponentially and is now reaching a point of critical mass. No group of people in America has been as disaffected and alienated since the 1860’s as the America haters are today. They believe that the United States brought the attacks on 9/11 on itself and that the war being waged in response is illegal and they are desperate for American failure in this effort. These people so despise America that American success in Iraq and in the war on terror is maddening to them. They believe that the prisoner abuse at Abu Gharib and the detentions at Guantanamo Bay are worse than the atrocities committed at Auschwitz. The absence of any measure of logic or reason that an individual must have in order to hold such a belief is evidence of the fact that these people are beginning to lose their grip on reality as a result of their deep hatred of the US.
As stated above, this group probably comprises 10-12% of the American people (30 million people in total). This group is most likely divided into students and other young people (18-23) who are just general malcontents caught up in the whirlwind of events and another group of permanent hard-core America haters. The former group will snap out of it in time – only to be replaced by other youngsters in the future. The latter group (the Michael Moore types) is a mystery. Given the ferocity and passion surrounding their hatred of the United States, it’s difficult to understand how these people can even function in America today.
Mr. Madison foresaw the fact that these types of people and groups would arise in America and he wisely and correctly ensured that their rights would be protected in the first amendment. Had he failed to do so, the ranks and the passion of the America haters would be far greater. Despite this fact, I believe that the America haters may pose a threat to the republic in the future. These people do not hate the US any less than a hard core member of Al Qaeda. They truly believe that they live in tyranny and, as stated above, many in this group may be beginning to lose their grip on reality.
Can these facts be lost on the nation’s true enemies – on Al Qaeda and their sympathizers? I think not. In fact, I believe that Al Qaeda and other similar organizations are very much aware of the fact that these people are out there in such large numbers and that this might be the angle that the terrorist groups or organizations seek to exploit.
On September 20, 2001 George W. Bush announced to Congress that America and her allies would win the war on terror partially by splitting the terrorists and causing them to fight among themselves. What if this gets turned on America?
What if future terrorist attacks against the United States are initiated not by Arab Muslims schooled in Pakistan and trained in Afghanistan but instead by disgruntled students or professors or converted Muslim ex-convicts born and bred in our own backyard? Is this an implausible scenario or could the war on terror turn into the 2nd American Civil War?
New around here I see.
That's a lot of words!
Vanity.
Meow!
Ahr ewe series?
Notwithstanding your newness on FR, I thought your piece as extremely thoughtful and well written.
The one quibble I have is the part about Japan - I don't recall seeing many diatribes from the left blasting the US for engaging and defeating Japan in WW2. Yeah, they moan about the atomic bombs, but I don't recall anything justifying Pearl Harbor.
While I have your attention, Michelle Malkin, from this morning's Washington Journal, is being replayed on C-SPAN2. Just started.
Vanity, newbie, first post, no replies, no link. Troll or no Troll?I report, you decide .....
Please let me know if you want ON or OFF my Viking Kitty/ZOT ping list!. . .don't be shy.
Hehe . . this is their first and only post.
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Not knowing who this person is or their agenda, it's hard to tell from just one post what's going on here.
But the part about the scenario using disgruntled students, professors or converted Muslim ex-convicts to stir strife among Americans is very plausible.
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1,744, to be exact. |
I guess we'll have to kill them too. What do you suggest?
Respond or be paved.
I don't know where you get your numbers from, but I think you give a bad rap to the "young people", or students if you prefer. Lots of peacenik geezers out there, and as always, the "young people" are carrying the water.
Interesting post.
I think prison conversions is a danger, another unrecognized open border.
Disgruntled students or professors , a lot of noise, not much substance.
Please add me to your list.
I find Viking Kitties quite amusing.
Thanks
My pleasure. I've added you. Thanks. :^)
KMB
Since Aug 20, 2004
Hmmmm, Welcome to FR!
Intriguing first post. Do not ignore FR-Vet posters; answer them ASAP. I'm not smelling any ozone yet, so you're off to a good start. Hang in there, KMB.
Hold fire, MeekOneGOP...
Pls add me, if I'm not already on your list, good sir.
BTW, this KMB might be a valid newbie... let's see what develops, and not ZOT® him so quickly.
Thanks. I've added you to the VK/Zot list and holding fire. I just saw signs and intended just a warning shot.Seems the Troll Invasion we have experienced the last few months makes it ever so difficult (*impossible* at times) to figure out who's Moby and who's not.
I look forward to November 3rd, and the lessening of the Invasion, ya know ? :^D
Thanks. Agreed.
I'm with you, Pal...
:^)
Thank you. In point of fact I've been reading The Free Republic on occassion for several years now but yes, this was my first post. I'm glad that you and others have found it interesting.
KMB
A general PING to my brethren: Has anyone else noticed, that the sincere new FReepers are growing in numbers, just after the Swift Vet ads started?
A Vanity for a first post can mean incoming fire on the way...but you have made a thoughtful and interesting Vanity post..Welcome to FR ..
VK honorary cheerleader, MEG
We do have some good new posters, though, so we must look before firing!
I have no idea of a connection but I appreciate the new sincere posters.
Today, well FR has changed. Drastically, I'm sad to say. Now the majority of posts are emotional with absolutely no thought behind them.
There is still a few of the brains and even a few heavy brains lurking out there so don't be surprised if you receive some private FR emails asking questions and providing you with detailed answers to yours.
Please stick around, don't bash the President without facts to back you up and do not take offense if someone calls you a troll, an idiot or worse. Just ignore those people and continue posting thoughtful articles.
You might fill in your profile page with a bit of your political beliefs and favorite quotes so other members have an idea who and what type of person you are.
Just click on your name twice and your profile page will open ---->KMB
I'm glad you found FR. Please stay around a while.
Welcome to FR. (No sarcasm.)
If I may make a suggestion, when you start a thread (particularly one that is liable to ruffle feathers) hang around and respond to it. Many post-and-run types are trolls.
I look forward to seeing your comments on future threads.
Yep. Good to see.
Then again, the hunting's been good too lately. Don't know how you keep up Sarge.
Hey, all it takes is a Target-Rich Environment, and fire in your belly.
Not implausible at all. I think all the above will be represented on the streets of New York in the near future during the GOP convention.
Good post, thanks. B4Ranch has some sage advice in #33.
BTW, the declaration was an extremist document...
Sheesh, where are my manners?
Interesting that the one who responds to defend KMB, who joined us today, is EOD, who also joined us today...
I concur wholeheartedly. Good advice. I like it when members who claim to be "real" freepers "in good standing"(pre-barf alert, sour taste in mouth): (1) start throwing up the "troll" label frequently and indiscriminately and then (2) presume to lecture "newbies" on proper freeper behavior. It makes THEM sound like the knee-jerk politically correct witch-hunters of the entrenched Left who flaunt their egos on too many of our college campuses. I suppose that imitating the enemy is the sincerest form of flattery. It seems they quick-read a new thread or article and offer their first emotional reaction instead of an insightful and well-reasoned response. Some of them even come close to explicit racism in their posts, but carefully worded.
Perhaps we should start asking, WILL THE REAL TROLLS PLEASE STAND UP!
I hear you there. I lurked for three years before signing up and posting on a 2A thread. I got smacked around for being the new kid, but my arguments were sound, so I survived day one with only a few bruises. I hate to see someone get jumped just because they're new.
That said, there is value in point by point countering the obvious turd in the punchbowl troll posts, too. I hate to see posts pulled when there is still room for discussion. I imagine the courtesy level will decrease as we approach the election... it seemed to in 2000.
B4Ranch,
I'm glad you liked my post. I've taken your advice and updated my profile. This should give everyone a good feel for my political views and philosophy.
Thanks,
KMB
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1195866/posts
Here is an interesting article. Don't bother with the 1st 50 posts. It's just trying to decide if the newbie is a good guy or not.
Dave
...Flynn offered that the Left hates America because it is as fundamentally repellant to them as was the Soviet Union for conservatives. Further, the very existence of a prosperous and free US stands as a tangible refutation to the Leftist assertion that freedom and capitalism are failed concepts. Flynn went on to say that President Bush ‘couldn’t have dreamed’ of casting an opposition that would better serve his agenda by alienating the American people.
The Left can be distinguished from Liberals or Democrats as being more like Gore Vidal rather than Al Gore. They are hardcore ideologues comprising probably less than ten percent of the US population. Flynn offered that the likes of these people could simply be ‘laughed off’ if they had proportionate influence. Given however that they dominate the culture - museums, Hollywood, the media, academia etc. - they represent a cadre that must be understood and dealt with accordingly.
Welcome to FreeRepublic.com, KMB !
Yeah. Mornin' ! :^D
#39/42 bump !!
Glad you spoke up. I was ready to pave. Welcome to FR and have a good weekend.
CG
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