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Let's help liberals understand that "VALUES" thingy in the American heartland! ^ | Nov. 8 2004 | Carlo3b, A PROUD AMERICAN

Posted on 11/08/2004 2:32:36 PM PST by carlo3b


Let's help liberals understand that "VALUES" thingy in the American heartland!


It has everything to do with moral values..
Our side aspires to achieve them even though we regularly fall short of our goals, however, the left despises even our meager efforts and openly displays it's disdain for anything religious including but not limited to moral standards.

It has everything to do with Gay Marriage..
Our side wants to call an unusual and unnatural affection for persons within your own gender anything but marriage; however, the left, wants all or nothing.

It has everything to do with our children, and the militant Gay agenda..
Our side sacrifices almost everything to raise our kids in an environment offering the greatest opportunity for happy, healthy, peaceful, and prosperous lives. We will never accept the promoting and portraying of the unnatural, risky, and unhealthy gay lifestyle as a legitimate, moral equivalent to a normal existence. I am sincerely sorry, I do not hate homosexuals. I do however disagree with their agenda for the rest of us, including the attempt to indoctrinate our children through the public education system. I really do understand how that must make you feel, but we must be honest.

It has everything to do with abortion..
Our side believes that murdering an innocent, human life, as a convenient means of birth control, is totally unacceptable and amoral personal behavior, our opponents on the left can't accept the inevitability of the unintended consequences of an uncontrolled sexual appetite, that too often results in STD, HIV, AIDS, and infanticide.

It has everything to do with gun ownership..
Our side read and understands the 2nd amendment to our constitution, and refuses to overturn it without a subsequent constitutional amendment, our opponents want a court to overrule the constitution without due process.

It had everything to do with character..
Our side had a guy that has deeply held and easily defined honorable beliefs, that do not waver and that he refused to disguise, his opponent appeared to lack core beliefs, choosing instead a weather vain, that changed to the direction of the prevailing political winds.

It has everything to do with security..
Our side sees mideast Islamic terrorism as a direct threat to our national security, and agrees that it is much wiser to wage the inevitable battle in their backyard instead of ours, our elitist opponents both home and abroad see our strategy as a brash show of our superior military might, bordering on imperialism. As to the military, we may finally agree on something. As long as you have the ability to use it to protect our own best interest, use it decisively and wisely. If that is Imperialism, so be it?

It has everything to do with hope..
Our side is willing to listen, and even compromise on vitally important broad issues confronting our common interests, as long as they respect our deeply held convictions. I believe that if one really wants to bring an end to the divisions in our culture and politics we must accept our differences and find consensus in the results of the political process. This election has conclusions and consequences that we must learn to live with.

It has everything to do with our vision of America and Americans..
Our side loves this country without qualification, even with your side in it!

KEYWORDS: 4moreyears; bush; kerry; liberal; losers
Add your thoughts.. of course liberals are always welcome.. :)
1 posted on 11/08/2004 2:32:36 PM PST by carlo3b
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To: carlo3b

Main thing to point out is that we trully love America. Liberals love America... as long as they win! Now they all hate America and want to move to Canada or boycott the red states. That's not loving a country, that's just loving having power over a country.

2 posted on 11/08/2004 2:35:35 PM PST by MachineMan
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To: carlo3b

I think showing our liberal brother citizens is more appropriate. I suggest they stand and watch as we tear down all of the immoral laws and institutions they built. Only then will they realize and accept what we are about.

3 posted on 11/08/2004 2:41:10 PM PST by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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To: carlo3b

I agree 100% but let me suggest that a Federal Marriage Amendment is a losing issue for Republicans. Many will vote against further destruction of our constitution. The States have decided, via the 9th and 10th Amendment and their ballot initiatives. Don't further pervert the Constitution to give the government authority over something that should be left to States, or better yet Churches and the private sector.

best regards,

4 posted on 11/08/2004 2:43:47 PM PST by t_skoz ("let me be who I am - let me kick out the jams!")
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To: MachineMan

good summation

5 posted on 11/08/2004 2:43:54 PM PST by King Prout (tagline under reconstruction)
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To: carlo3b

For me, it had everything to do with defeating the left and their silly idea of pushing a socialist agenda.

When you couldn't tell much of a difference between Kerry's platform and that of the Communist Party USA, I would've voted for almost anyone running against him. Thankfully, Bush was the right choice.

6 posted on 11/08/2004 2:45:15 PM PST by Outland (Socialists/liberals/greens/progressives/commies: Losers! Go home to France.)
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To: carlo3b

If I find a hurt animal I will fix him up and then let him free. A liberal will fix him up and keep him and remind him who fixed him up and smother him all the while self assuring themselves that the way they are helping this animal is best for the animal whether the animal belives it or not.

Liberals hate freedom. Americans rejoice at Freedom.

7 posted on 11/08/2004 2:49:53 PM PST by tomnbeverly (Its time to spend some political capital... Ouch that has to hurt liberals.)
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To: King Prout

I am confused about the determination of gays to get married. It might be my age, of course.

Since I am 60, I remember so well how marriage was enslaving me, taking away my freedom to "be myself", interfering with my full potential, and making me waste my life chained to a jerk who would inevitably leave me for a younger model.

I thought marriage was passe.

How come all these gays want to get married?

8 posted on 11/08/2004 2:51:27 PM PST by jacquej
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To: carlo3b

I want the 50’s back where divorce is shamed, abortion never discussed, homosexuality hidden, adultery not a fashion, going to church on Sunday the norm, dressing like a slut brought condemnation, birth out of wedlock shunned but married because it was the right thing to do for the child, and taking Under God out of the pledge unthinkable.

9 posted on 11/08/2004 2:58:59 PM PST by Clint N. Suhks
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To: jacquej

they don't, not really.
they want the State to put a stamp of government approval on their interpersonal bondings, so that they may take their culture war to the next level.

I know a few gay people.
NONE of them wants to get "married" - they hold in contempt the actions of the Gay Lobby.

10 posted on 11/08/2004 3:02:51 PM PST by King Prout (tagline under reconstruction)
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To: carlo3b
Excellent post. I have come up with the following graphic to help out.

11 posted on 11/08/2004 3:27:08 PM PST by IPWGOP (I'm Linda Eddy, and I approved this message... 'tooning the truth!)
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To: 26lemoncharlie; Jim Robinson; Bob J; christie; stanz; jellybean; Angelique; Howie; TwoStep; ...

I can't help but think what this country would be like if we had Gore for 8 years, followed by Kerry, and then Hillary.. {{{{YIKES}}}} However, thanks to BIG RED in the middle, we will never have to know...:)

12 posted on 11/08/2004 8:57:23 PM PST by carlo3b (
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To: carlo3b

Thanks for the ping. How you doing sweetie??

13 posted on 11/08/2004 9:13:28 PM PST by Soaring Feather (~Poetry is my forte.~)
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To: bentfeather
Hello my dear girl.. I am staying ahead of the alligators.. :)
14 posted on 11/08/2004 9:18:39 PM PST by carlo3b (
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To: carlo3b

Wonderful Carlo, keep stepping high. :)

15 posted on 11/08/2004 9:20:23 PM PST by Soaring Feather (~Poetry is my forte.~)
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To: carlo3b

Proudly and happily bookmarked! This is wonderful, carlo!

16 posted on 11/08/2004 9:28:36 PM PST by Bradís Gramma (PRAY PRAY PRAY PRAY PRAY PRAY PRAY and PRAY some more!!!)
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To: carlo3b

Don't waste time trying to educate a liberal; spend time trying to educate more new Republicans. Let the left keep on doing what causes them to lose elections!

17 posted on 11/08/2004 10:05:34 PM PST by Chapita (There are none so blind as those who refuse to see! Santana)
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To: carlo3b

No, no, no. Don't help them! They'll take the lesson, "triangulate", and screw the voters again by misleading them. Let them suffer in ignorance!!!

18 posted on 11/09/2004 3:50:00 AM PST by jammer
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To: carlo3b
One of the best things the media didn't do in the recent election was explain what Kerry meant when he said "I voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it"

Today's 'tator take goes into detail about how a Sentor saying "I voted for the Bush Supreme Court nominee before I voted against him" will work to our advange.

Click here for the latest 'tator take

19 posted on 11/09/2004 4:26:34 AM PST by Common Tator
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To: carlo3b

Right on, Carlo!
The old cliche "they just don't get it!" applies to liberals perfectly. You can shame them, blame them, but you will never change them.

I believe we have been walking around them too long, ignoring them while they slowly dissolve our country, using liberal judges and arrogant lawyers as their willing tools.

20 posted on 11/09/2004 7:40:32 AM PST by Howie
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: carlo3b

Here goes... I was born and raised in Massachusetts (live in NC now) and I have to comment that the heartland does not have a monopoly on values. The people I grew up with, I think, would agree with almost all of the subjects/traits that you listed. I can't speak for all of "them" but here are my thoughts.

I look at my wife and feel love, affection and desire. I can't imagine having the same feelings for a man. That makes homosexuality unnatural to me but I don't believe gays choose to do what they do because they enjoy the abuse. God made them that way (I believe), but was it to give them an extra challenge in life or to give us the extra challenge... Acceptance may be due to overexposure. I'm used to seeing gays in the city and they've become another part of the landscape and I got over the uneasiness. I saw too many of my friends torn up by the divorce of their parents to worry about anyone's marriage more than my own. Do I want them marching down main steet in their underwear? No. But they are just as much a citizen and just as free as you or I.
As to guns... In the formation of our country they were a necessity. They became less so in the Northeast as the country expanded Westward. So, I don't think there's the same family traditions of gun ownership in the East as there is in the heartland. Gun control means less to people who never owned one.
At the base of the whole moral values issue for me is fear. I shy away from anyone who tries to tell me what mine should be, even when I happen to agree with the values themselves.

23 posted on 11/09/2004 9:26:20 AM PST by Sun Soldier
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To: angelus1967; mhking; Constitution Day; Poohbah; BlueLancer; Old Sarge
"I was a Republican for many years until George W. Bush came along in 2000."

(et cetera, et cetera, et cetera)

24 posted on 11/09/2004 9:46:20 AM PST by dighton
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To: dighton; jern; viaveritasvita

He's also trolling our NC Freeper board:

angelus1967 11/09/2004 12:41:08 PM EST

I just found this site and I have to say that y'all do fit the sterotype of good Southern conservatives.

I did not vote for Bush because I think that the man is not competant to run a lemonade stand let alone the most powerful nation on earth. He took us into a needless war, pumped the deficit sky high with a tax cut during war time(my 6 year old niece would understand that you need money to run a war), has done nothing to create jobs, and, with the very ill advised USA PATRIOT Act, has done his best to rob Americans of their hard won freedoms. I have voted Republican for most of my life and even voted for Bush in 2000 but he lost me when he invaded Iraq for no good reason after lying to us in order to get our support. All of the mistakes he made and people voted him back in because they feel that he is a "good Christian man". We do not live in a Christian nation and we need a leader, not a preacher.

I will be interested to see what y'all have to say because I have read time and again on the main boards of this site how tolerant the conservatives are. I have yet to meet one who is at all tolerant down here. And I love North Carolina so I am not just an unhappy transplant.

25 posted on 11/09/2004 9:47:48 AM PST by Constitution Day
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To: jacquej
they want marriage to attain "normalcy" and thereby requiring America to treat it as totally normal, in every church, school, television show, the list is endless! Marriage is just a starting point to the rest of their agenda. as follows:

The 1972 Gay Rights Platform
In February 1972 the National Coalition of Gay Organizations met at the Armitage Avenue United Methodist Church in Chicago. An invitation had been sent out to 495 homosexual organizations across the U.S. to come and prepare a "gay stance for the 1972 elections."

About 200 individuals from 18 states representing 85 organizations showed up for the two-day event. Conference participants adopted the 1972 Gay Rights Platform, which included 17 federal and state "demands."

For over 30 it has been the beacon of the homosexual movement in America. Back in 1972 their demands seemed so outlandish that nobody took them seriously. But gay activists have been extremely focused and relentless in achieving their goals. (Notice the bottom goal on the list.)

It gives an interesting perspective. If someone back then had suggested that we would be discussing this subject today and in the position we're in, it would not only have been considered unbelievable, it truly would have been beyond the ability of the average person to imagine it.



Amend all federal Civil Rights Acts, other legislation and government controls to prohibit discrimination in employment, housing, public accommodations and public services.

.Issuance by the President of an executive order prohibiting the military from excluding for reasons of their sexual orientation, persons who of their own volition desire entrance into the Armed Services; and from issuing less-than-fully-honorable discharges from homosexuality; and the upgrading to fully honorable all such discharges previously issued, with retroactive benefits.

Issuance by the President of an executive order prohibiting discrimination in the federal civil service because of sexual orientation, in hiring and promoting; and prohibiting discriminations against homosexuals in security clearances.

Elimination of tax inequities victimizing single persons and same-sex couples.

Elimination of bars to the entry, immigration and naturalization of homosexual aliens.

Federal encouragement and support for sex education courses, prepared and taught by Gay women and men, presenting homosexuality as a valid, healthy preference and lifestyle as a viable alternative to heterosexuality.

Appropriate executive orders, regulations and legislation banning the compiling, maintenance and dissemination of information on an individual's sexual preferences, behavior, and social and political activities for dossiers and data banks.

Federal funding of aid programs of Gay men's and women's organizations designed to alleviate the problems encountered by Gay women and men which are engendered by an oppressive sexist society.

Immediate release of all Gay women and men now incarcerated in detention centers, prisons and mental institutions because of sexual offense charges relating to victimless crimes or sexual orientation; and that adequate compensation be made for the physical and mental duress encountered; and that all existing records relating to the incarceration be immediately expunged.

All federal legislation and programs enumerated in Demands 1, 6, 7, 8 and 9 above should be implemented at the State level where applicable.

Repeal of all state laws prohibiting private sexual acts involving consenting persons; equalization for homosexuals and heterosexuals for the enforcement of all laws.

Repeal all state laws prohibiting solicitation for private voluntary sexual liaisons; and laws prohibiting prostitution, both male and female.

Enactment of legislation prohibiting insurance companies and other state-regulated enterprises from discriminating because of sexual orientation, in insurance and in bonding or any other prerequisite to employment or control of one's personal demesne.

Enactment of legislation so that child custody, adoption, visitation rights, foster parenting, and the like shall not be denied because of sexual orientation or marital status.

Repeal of all laws prohibiting transvestism and cross-dressing.

Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent.

Repeal of all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit; and the extension of legal benefits to all persons who cohabit regardless of sex or numbers.
"The greatest single victory of the gay movement over the past decade has been to shift the debate from behavior to identity, thus forcing opponents into a position where they can be seen as attacking the civil rights of homosexual citizens."
From The Homosexualization of America, by homosexual activist Dennis Altman.
26 posted on 11/09/2004 11:55:05 AM PST by gidget7 (God Bless America, and our President George W. Bush)
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To: Sun Soldier

How same-sex "marriage" will affect you
Many people don't realize why it's so important to stop this movement now. We've all heard the favorite refrain of gay activists is "it won't affect you." In a broad sense, this has relatively little to do with affecting individual marriages. That's because to the homosexual movement, it's about a much larger issue.

Not really about marriage or benefits. . .

Interestingly, in the few places where homosexuals have won the fight to legalize gay "marriage', very few of them actually get married. Similarly with domestic partnership and insurance benefits.

For example, General Motors is listed as one of the top ten "gay-friendly" companies on the gay Human Rights Campaign website, after a hard-fought fight to get GM to offer same-sex "spousal" health insurance and other benefits. So how many GM employees choose to extend their health insurance to a same-sex partner? According to GM, only 166 employees, or one-one hundredth of one percent of all GM workers.

The real victory . . .

The real fight is about the forced, legal acceptance and sanctioning of homosexuality in both public and private life. The passionate fight for "gay marriage" is really about the movement's obsession over society accepting their behavior -- and their rage that without the force of law we never will.

By making homosexual behavior a legal entity -- as "marriage" or "civil unions" it carries with it the huge force of state-approved legal recognition.

When homosexual "marriage" becomes law, the citizens of Massachusetts should expect a lot of unforeseen consequences -- things for which the gay activist movement has worked long and hard:

Legal harrassment of groups that do not accept homosexuality. Even now, the Boy Scouts of America are being forced out of schools and denied use of public property for their programs, because of their principled stand against including openly homosexual scoutmasters and scouts. Most recently, on April 14, 2004, a judge in San Diego ruled that the Boy Scouts may not use a city-owned park because they are a "discriminatory organization."

Legally protected homosexual programs in public schools. The homosexual programs in the public schools are now generally done clandestinely and without parents' knowledge. The schools now back away when parents become aware and protest. But starting May 17, homosexual sexual activity, relationships, and "culture", will be legally sanctioned and considered normal. Keeping these programs out of schools will be discrimination. Teachers will be able to describe their homosexual relationships (along with pictures of their partners) without fear of parental retribution. After all, if same-sex relationships are written into law, they must be accepted. Assemblies and other activities for children equating homosexuality and heterosexuality will be perfectly legal.

Enforcement of gay-inclusive language in the schools. In public schools and all other public enterprises "husband and wife" and "father and mother" will be replaced by "partner and partner" or "spouse and spouse" or "parent and parent." This has already started happening in public schools in Newton and Cambridge. It will soon be mandatory. Acknowledging Mother's Day or Father's Day is already considered "verboten" in some public schools.

The proposed constitutional amendment -- a view into the future. Even the constitutional amendment currently drafted (but which still needs to pass two more votes) is draconian. It mandates that marriages and civil unions must be legally equivalent and covers all applicable state laws. It makes it very clear that no legal differences may exist between regular and homosexual marriages/unions.

Updating the anti-discrimination laws. The Civil Unions bill written by the Massachusetts Senate in January, is a clear statement of what lies in store. It updates the state's discrimination laws to make it illegal in Massachusetts for anyone to discriminate between a marriage and a homosexual civil union. This includes businesses, churches, individuals, etc.

All phases of business & public life. Thus, starting not too long after May 17, all businesses, churches, employment benefits packages, stores, etc. will have to treat same-sex "marriages" exactly like normal marriages in every manner. A business that doesn't offer the same benefits or considerations for them, or even a bridal shop that won't cater to two women, will soon be breaking the law.

Churches and homosexual adoption. Even today, Catholic Charities in Massachusetts is forced by the state to give orphaned children over to homosexual couples for adoption, or else lose all public funding. (Unfortunately, they comply rather than resist.) This approach will only get more militant.

Heavy fines. In California, business can now be fined up to $150,000 for not allowing a man to come to work dressed as a woman. Last year, the City of Boston, under pressure from gay activists, quietly passed a similar ordinance regarding housing.

Attack on churches. There is already a fledgling movement to force churches to lose their tax-exempt status if they don't perform same-sex marriages, or otherwise discriminate (possibly even in literature they distribute).

Hate-crime laws are the gay activists' favorite club to force the public into submission. It started in Boston several years ago when a bar was fined $100,000 for tossing out two men who were publicly kissing and causing a disturbance among the patrons. (This was set up, of course, to use the newly-created law.) That's just the beginning.
Already happening in Canada. We only have to look northward across the border. Last year the courts in Canada declared that homosexual marriage must be legalized. Immediately the hate-crime laws came into full force. New laws in Canada expose "dissenters" to fines, criminal records, and possible jail terms. A few of the incidents, as reported in the press:

The Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission ruled that a newspaper ad listing biblical passages that oppose homosexuality was a human-rights offense. The commission ordered the paper and Hugh Owens, the man who placed the ad, to pay $1,500 each to three gay men who objected to it.

Scott Brockie, a Christian with a print shop in Toronto, was forced to do printing for a gay and lesbian advocacy group, even though he claimed that doing so would force him to compromise his religious convictions. A board of inquiry for the Ontario Human Rights Commission declared that while Mr. Brockie was "free to hold his religious beliefs and to practise them in his home, and in his Christian community," in public, the rights of gays trumped his religious freedom.

a British Columbia court upheld the one-month suspension, without pay, of a high school teacher who wrote letters to a local paper arguing that homosexuality is not a fixed orientation but a condition that can and should be treated. The teacher, Chris Kempling, was not accused of discrimination, merely of expressing thoughts that the state defines as improper.
In Europe, they're already going after the churches. As columnist John Leo observed in a recent article:

In Sweden, sermons are explicitly covered by an anti-hate-speech law passed to protect homosexuals. The Swedish chancellor of justice said any reference to the Bible's stating that homosexuality is sinful might be a criminal offense, and a Pentecostal minister is already facing charges.

In Britain, police investigated Anglican Bishop Peter Forster of Chester after he told a local paper: "Some people who are primarily homosexual can reorientate themselves. I would encourage them to consider that as an option." Police sent a copy of his remarks to prosecutors, but the case was dropped.

In Ireland last August, the Irish Council for Civil Liberties warned that clergy who circulated a Vatican statement opposing gay marriages could face prosecution under incitement-to-hatred legislation.

This is just the beginning of what can and will happen in Massachusetts beginning May 17, when the force of law becomes a reality. And it's why citizens must get involved now - and not depend on their public officials to protect them.

This has been happening in MA since May 17th. Can you really believe it's not a problem??

Tolerance yes, by all means! Should anyone be discriminated against, their civil rights denied them, abused or worse yet attacked? absolutely NOT!! But the whole agenda as well as gay marriage is not a civil rights issue at all. and Gay marriage is just the starting point.

27 posted on 11/09/2004 12:09:54 PM PST by gidget7 (God Bless America, and our President George W. Bush)
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To: gidget7

"How same-sex "marriage" will affect you"

Obviously you are passionate on this issue and have gathered alot of information on it. Please understand, I don't believe in the same things you do so I don't find much on your list alarming. Gays are being discriminated against and always have been. Obviously they're sick of it. The one thing that really does stand out as alarming is they are trying to make the government punish churches for not recognizing them and/or calling their activities a sin. I don't belong to or attend any church but I would stand with any church or other place of worship and fight on that issue. I just haven't seen it happen here (in NC). As for the Boy Scouts, yes they are a "discriminating organization" and they should be proud that they are holding to their own moral standards.

28 posted on 11/09/2004 6:32:19 PM PST by Sun Soldier
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