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OUR TROOPS UNMET NEEDS or after 40 years the DoD Inspector General will look in to the crappy M-16.
M & C News ^ | Jan 10, 2006 | Winslow T. Wheeler

Posted on 01/11/2006 7:09:45 PM PST by undocumentedrat

WASHINGTON, DC, United States (UPI) -- Many in Congress and the Pentagon boast American troops have the best equipment in the world. But reports from the battlefields in Iraq and Afghanistan say otherwise. The information about the failures is not new; solutions are long overdue. Some of the most worrying questions center on the efficacy and lethality of the firearms U.S. forces are using. Official reports show high levels of dissatisfaction with the M-4 carbine, M16 rifle magazines, and M249 machine gun. The small size of the 5.56mm bullet used in these weapons is also highly controversial among some troops. But problems with weaponry are just a subset of the larger issue: equipment that is not up to scratch. Reports from the Army`s Natick Soldier Center, its Tank-automotive and Armaments Command, and the Marine`s Systems Command Liaison Team in Iraq -- all from 2002 and 2003 -- tell us, for example, troops` 'dislikes.' Among those dislikes: uniforms that rip easily, eyewear that fogs up and fits poorly under helmets, and boots that blister, crack, and burst, and are 'poor for movement,' or as in one soldier`s e-mail are 'truly awful and also painful.' Troops buy some equipment with their own money, usually because government issue performs poorly. Such items include gloves, socks, flashlights, padding for backpacks, 'CamelBak' hydration systems, and weapons cleaning equipment. Banal items? Perhaps to us back home, but certainly not for soldiers fighting in the mountains of Afghanistan and the desert of Iraq, doing whatever it takes to keep their bodies and their weapons working. continue -> http://news.monstersandcritics.com/northamerica/article_1074708.php

(Excerpt) Read more at news.monstersandcritics.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: 556; army; bang; banglist; m16; m4; marines
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I've never been a big supporter of the M-16. I was trained in the Marine Corps with a real infantry rifle the M-14. One sad day they took away our M-14's and gave us a toy called the M-16 a-1. It was chamberd to fire the Remington varmint cartage the .223 Rem. ( 5.56 mm) For forty years now our Marines and soldiers have been sent in to combat with a varmint rifle that has always had a problem of stoppages. The 5.56 round doesn't have the man stopping power like the 7.62. In the Nam the 5.56 round would actualy be deflected by the brush. It time for our Marines and soldiers to be equipt with a real infantry rifle chambers with a larger round.
1 posted on 01/11/2006 7:09:50 PM PST by undocumentedrat
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To: undocumentedrat

I have to tell you that I spoke with my cousin the other day and she is very concerned. Her husband is headed back to Afghanistan in 2 weeks and her son just returned from Baghdad. We need the best equipment available and we need to take care of those who serve when they come home.


2 posted on 01/11/2006 7:13:08 PM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: undocumentedrat

I thought the XM-8 was a pretty kick ass piece of equipment, but...still had that 5.56 round in it. I heard they were going to make a 7.62 version, but...the weapon was canned, apparently.

I cannot believe we cannot make the best infantry weapon in the world.


3 posted on 01/11/2006 7:18:07 PM PST by rlmorel ("Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does." Whittaker Chambers)
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To: undocumentedrat
I read in Popular Mechanics today that SOCOM is switching to an FNH rifle that fires either the 5.56 or the "heavy" version that fires the 7.62. Anything less than .30 caliber unacceptable in this squid's opinion.
4 posted on 01/11/2006 7:18:16 PM PST by kerryusama04 (The Bill of Rights is not occupation specific.)
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To: undocumentedrat

If God had meant us to fire the 5.56 in combat, He would have made all our enemies, 2 feet tall, weighing 40 pounds.


5 posted on 01/11/2006 7:23:41 PM PST by MindBender26 (Having my own CAR-15 in RVN meant never having to say I was sorry....)
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To: undocumentedrat

.308!


6 posted on 01/11/2006 7:28:33 PM PST by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: MindBender26
If God had meant us to fire the 5.56 in combat, He would have made all our enemies, 2 feet tall, weighing 40 pounds.

Not that it matters, but what is the weight an individual soldier has to carry around of 5.56 vs. equal number of rounds of 7.62 ammo?

7 posted on 01/11/2006 7:29:37 PM PST by operation clinton cleanup
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To: operation clinton cleanup

The .223 weighs less than half of what a .308 round weighs


8 posted on 01/11/2006 7:31:52 PM PST by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: MindBender26

We have Iran, Syria, and North Korea in the next few years. Do you we have time to make a major logistic change in time to fight these conflicts. To suggests that the 5.56mm is inadequate is rdiciulous. The Israelis use it, in fact, the weapon that OBL carried, or carries, fires a 5.45mm round.


9 posted on 01/11/2006 7:31:55 PM PST by Perdogg ("Facts are stupid things." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: MindBender26

We have Iran, Syria, and North Korea in the next few years. Do you we have time to make a major logistic change in time to fight these conflicts. To suggests that the 5.56mm is inadequate is rdiciulous. The Israelis use it, in fact, the weapon that OBL carried, or carries, fires a 5.45mm round.


10 posted on 01/11/2006 7:31:55 PM PST by Perdogg ("Facts are stupid things." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: operation clinton cleanup
I only ask because some bean counter probably determined they could carry more rounds of 5.56 ammo back when the M-16 was designed... and ammo resupply was harder to come by in the field.
11 posted on 01/11/2006 7:32:40 PM PST by operation clinton cleanup
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To: operation clinton cleanup

Roughly 300 rounds of 5.56 mm to 180 of 7.62mm.


12 posted on 01/11/2006 7:33:45 PM PST by TXBSAFH ("I would rather be a free man in my grave then living as a puppet or a slave." - Jimmy Cliff)
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To: undocumentedrat
Were I in combat, I'd be carrying an M-14 if I could. It's a fine rifle, replaced by a lousy, plastic .22. You can easily stop a truck with a .308.

There were a LOT of complaints when they made the switch.

13 posted on 01/11/2006 7:34:19 PM PST by GhostofWCooper (enough's enough. Deport them and build the fence.)
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To: undocumentedrat
I loved the M-16 99% of the time and hated it the other 1%. 99% of the time I was carrying it and its ammo and appreciated the weight. The 1% of the time was when I actually had to use it. Give me something with more stopping and penetrating power any day. The M-16 is fine for REMFs and WACS. Those in combat arms need a real weapon.
14 posted on 01/11/2006 7:34:30 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: undocumentedrat

The best thing the Pentagon can do is get our fighting men good quality boots, custom foam padded helmets, and a rifle that will kill a full grown man without needing to empty the entire magazine into him.


15 posted on 01/11/2006 7:35:24 PM PST by EricT. (Posting on FR helped me to quit screaming at the TV.)
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To: undocumentedrat

And we can replace the M9 popgun next...

Bring back the M1911...


16 posted on 01/11/2006 7:36:08 PM PST by AlaninSA (It's one nation under God -- brought to you by the Knights of Columbus)
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To: TXBSAFH
Roughly 300 rounds of 5.56 mm to 180 of 7.62mm.

Thanks for the info... I guess it all depends on the mission you are on for what would be best.

17 posted on 01/11/2006 7:37:24 PM PST by operation clinton cleanup
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To: mylife
Right the 5.56mm S109 has a mass of 3.95 g while the NATO .308 Win / 7.62 NATO (USA) has a mass 9.50 g.

The Russian M74 5.45mm has a mass of 3.25 g.
18 posted on 01/11/2006 7:38:01 PM PST by Perdogg ("Facts are stupid things." - President Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: operation clinton cleanup
Not that it matters, but what is the weight an individual soldier has to carry around of 5.56 vs. equal number of rounds of 7.62 ammo?

I think most grunts would happily hump a couple extra pounds if means having an effective weapon.

19 posted on 01/11/2006 7:38:51 PM PST by EricT. (Posting on FR helped me to quit screaming at the TV.)
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To: Perdogg

The 6.8 SPC and, even better, the 6.5 Grendel use the same mags, lowers, action, in fact, everything but the barrel assembly. The 6.5 is way better than the 5/56, and so good, that in excess of 300 meters, it's better than the 7.62!!!


20 posted on 01/11/2006 7:39:16 PM PST by MindBender26 (Having my own CAR-15 in RVN meant never having to say I was sorry....)
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