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Upcoming 30-year anniversary of Girl Scouts Murder
various ^ | various | Various sources

Posted on 10/08/2006 12:04:23 AM PDT by GodfearingTexan

Camp Scott: Once a wilderness utopia where children played, it's fifty-year history came crashing to a sudden end with the ghastly murders of three Girl Scouts in 1977. Michele Heather Guse , 9, Doris Denise Milner , 10, and Lori Lee Farmer , 8, had all fallen victim to a monsterous killer--the likes of which Oklahoma and the nation had never before seen. A curious crime that to this day continues on as one of the country's most unusual mysteries.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

KEYWORDS: campscott; girlscouts; murder; scoutcamp; scouting
I recently took my church kids camping and thought back to the Camp Scott Girl Scout murders of 1977 near Locust Grove, OK. I was born in nearby Pryor, the county seat, and my father had worked at the state reform school there. In that capacity, he would be charged with leading search parties for runaways, and some of them had gotten mixed up with the suspect in this case, Gene Leroy Hart.

Some people think this is one of the stories that the Friday the 13th writer used as fuel for his series of movies. This story has lots of hocus-pocus Indian tales, small town/big crime drama, and a scary ending. I thought FReepers might like to have a look if they've never heard of this case. Thanks.

1 posted on 10/08/2006 12:04:23 AM PDT by GodfearingTexan
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To: GodfearingTexan
Its a terrible tragedy. And its sad for me, personally, in another way as well, because they gave them the John Zinc land the Boy Scouts were using for years and I have some really great memories up there, but the place was set up with a guard shack and was off limits the last time I was up there, which was years ago. I hadn't heard about the murders so I was just stunned, and heartsick. One of the things I remember about summer camp at John Zinc ranch was if you saw a Scout drop litter on the ground, you shouted "Kit Carson!" and he had to buy you a can of soda. It wasn't unusual if you wandered off the path, to see a cow skull in the dust, just like an old western movie.

One summer, our Scout master, who was a retired Marine, took us out on a ten mile hike. Mr. Crone liked to do everything the hard way, thought it was good for us. So our ten mile hike, was ten miles out, and ten miles back again the next day. When we first started out, we came to a horse pond, where we emptied out our canteens and filled them with horse pond water, and added purifcation tablets. Whatever provisions we had, we carried on our backs. I still remember dragging in back to the main gate on the second day. They told us a group of Scouts was waiting at the gate to laugh at us as we dragged in sloppily... so we didn't. Exhausted in the hot Oklahoma sun, we marched in the best we could, singing marching songs.

I didn't understand him back then, but the older I get the more I appreciate Mr. Crone. He built character in us.

2 posted on 10/08/2006 12:32:15 AM PDT by 1-Eagle (There is no such thing as an accurate poll. There are no penalties for inaccutate polls. Forget them)
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To: 1-Eagle

I see that A&E's Cold Case Files website has many people trying to get the case profiled on their show:

3 posted on 10/08/2006 1:07:37 AM PDT by GodfearingTexan
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To: GodfearingTexan

Thanks (I think) for the reminder of the terrible tragedy at Camp Scott. I have argued the outcome of this case with a friend for 20 out of the 30 years, at least.

It infuriated me that Hart got off, no matter that he dropped dead, anyway. That just served to keep parents everywhere terrified of whether or not a repeat performance could have transpired.

My moonbat defense atty friend said that was nonsense (thinking back, I guess she thought Stevens and one of his criminal cohorts were the real perps - as if moonbats ever think anyone is guilty of anything) - that people can't live their lives in fear.

I've never forgotten her saying that because I remembered how torn up she had been at the time it happened. I didn't live in the state at the time, but she did, and worked on some of the case preps.

We were all affected, but to have her later say that (and get on me because I'm a voting tribal member and didn't stick up for the accused out of "blood brother" ties - and no, she's not Native American at all) just incensed me. Still does, when I think about it.

I don't know how they ever, ever got any Girl Scouts, or even Boy Scouts, to ever go back to campouts after that, anywhere in the US. *shivers* My childhood camp was Wah-Shah-She, not anywhere near this one, but identical in layout at the time, and I had never been to Camp Scott - but my childhood troop was in the same council before they were split up.

I'm going to ask another FReeper if he can add anything to this, because of something I just learned last night - kind of eerie, actually. Thanks again.

4 posted on 10/08/2006 2:25:04 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: GodfearingTexan

Found this in a Nov 2004 issue of the Pryor paper:

" ... DNA still not able to prove Hart acted alone

As forensic science shows like
CSI gain popularity across the
country, many people are hoping
DNA testing might ultimately find
the truth behind the 1977 triple
murder of three young Girl Scouts
near Locust Grove.

Unfortunately, an attempt by
the Oklahoma State Bureau of
Investigation in 2002 to close the
case against Gene Leroy Hart was

Although a Mayes County jury
acquitted Hart of the crime, prosecutors
still feel like the Locust
Grove man who suffered a heart
attack and died in prison while
serving an unrelated rape charge,
was responsible for the deaths of
Lori Lee Farmer, 8, Michele Guse,
9, and Doris Denise Milner, 10.

Similar tests performed in 1989
on a semen-stained pillowcase
retrieved at the crime scene at
Locust Grove’s Camp Scott were
considered inconclusive although
they proved that only one in 7,000
American Indians would match the
fluid samples taken from the crime
scene. Hart, a Cherokee, maintained
his innocence throughout
his trial.

Chuck Jeffries, an OSBI
spokesman, said the 2002 tests
failed because the samples tested
were “insufficient and too deteriorated.”

“There is no DNA to test. The
lab tried to obtain, but could not
come up with anything to test,”
said Jeffries, inspector of the
OSBI’s northeast regional office.

“She (Joann Kihega, head of the
OSBI’s criminal DNA lab) tried
twice to get the genetic markers to
make the call, but both were unsuccessful.”

The 1989 FBI testing successfully
matched three out of five
DNA probes to samples from Hart,
but the results were deemed unreliable.

The 33-year-old Hart had previously
been convicted of rape, burglary
and kidnapping and had
escaped from the Mayes County
Jail several months before the
Camp Scott murders took place.
The case is still open, but considered
inactive. ..."

5 posted on 10/08/2006 3:25:54 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: 1-Eagle

I don't believe that Camp Scott is the John Zink Ranch scout camp. That's up by Sand Springs, north of town, and is still quite active.

I thought I heard that Camp Scott had been destroyed years ago. It was near Locust Grove, over by one of the nice lakes, Fort Gibson, I think. That is east of Tulsa, on the way to Siloam Springs and Springdale, AR.

6 posted on 10/08/2006 3:31:50 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: 1-Eagle

Have you been to the Tulsa TV Memories website? I just love to browse there from time to time and reminisce - especially about weatherman Woodward and his lion puppet alter ego, as "Lee & Lionel."

For the Girl Scouts murder story, start here and put "scout" in your "find" feature (Ctrl-F):

That's a post from someone saying they wanted to leave flowers at the camp but had heard there are guard dogs and you can't get onto the property. Then, the moderator directs the poster here:

That post is by someone in 2003 who had just been by there and said that the Boy Scout Camp Garland is still there, but Camp Scott is gone.

A little about the Tulsa media people who covered it is referenced here (use "find" "scout" again):

And here, scroll down a little ways to "KOTV" in big letters:

LOL, the 2nd news anchor down, Clayton Vaughan, had been a Top40 DJ in the Tulsa radio market when I was a teenager.

7 posted on 10/08/2006 3:46:54 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: GodfearingTexan


8 posted on 10/08/2006 7:28:28 AM PDT by GodfearingTexan
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To: Rte66

Now you've got me wondering if Hart was the same guy as the one who escaped at Tallequah and nearly killed my bro-in-law but I recalled that he was the jailer there back then. I had never associated the two stories but now I need to talk to my sister. The escapee at Tallequah did later die at McAlester.

9 posted on 10/08/2006 10:54:51 AM PDT by Muleteam1
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To: GodfearingTexan
This is the Sheriff of Mayes County, Oklahoma in 1977. I would guess it was he who did a lot of the investigation. My brother-in-law became Mayes County Sherifff later but was involved in the investigation in 1977.

10 posted on 10/08/2006 12:00:20 PM PDT by Muleteam1
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To: Muleteam1

Oh, thanks for the reply. I wasn't sure if that was your relative or not. He took a LOT of heat over this investigation; I would not have wanted to be in his shoes. I think they even tried him for evidence tampering or something, but he was innocent.

I'll see what I can find about Tahlequah, too.

11 posted on 10/08/2006 1:00:02 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: GodfearingTexan

I worked with the Farmer girls father. He was an ER doctor in Tulsa and I worked with him when I was a resident. Nice guy. He and his wife did live in the small town in Arkansas where I grew up and my Mom knew the mother. I never understood however that the families sued the Girl Scouts and won money. I really do not understand law suits like that. It was a horrible murder.

12 posted on 10/08/2006 1:13:30 PM PDT by therut
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To: Muleteam1

If your relatives are online, maybe they could take a look at the A&E forum GodfearingTexan linked above.

Here are the three pages of posts on A&E and some interesting people showed up to make comments, including the "4th girl" who was supposed to have been in the Kiowa tent that night; also someone whose parent put the cuffs on Hart.

13 posted on 10/08/2006 1:44:08 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: therut

I only vaguely recall the lawsuits and now can't find anything about that in a quick search online. Do you remember anything else about them?

Here is someone else's brief synopsis of the case, but it doesn't go into the later details in the aftermath. I didn't ever read either of the books written about the case, but am surprised I didn't buy them.

14 posted on 10/08/2006 2:04:30 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: Rte66

I don't see any emails that I recognize in those discussions but emails change. I think my sister told me a couple of months ago when I last her her she uses her PC mostly for recipes. I never get an email from her so I don't even know if she is on the internet. The son I had privately spoken to you about probably has to be very discreet in any PC coorespondence about criminal activities. He would have been about 12 years old when the thing happened so I don't know if he has any real interest in it. I am in email contact with him so I'll ask him what he knows.

15 posted on 10/08/2006 2:18:59 PM PDT by Muleteam1
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To: Muleteam1

Okay. Now that I know your Mayes Co. dates, I have a better picture of the timeline.

Still, the opinions on this case are so sharply divided, it makes an interesting discussion. Wish I could find some details on the civil lawsuits afterwards.

16 posted on 10/08/2006 5:50:17 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: Rte66

The Girl Scout camp is now the defunct Rowland Ranch.

17 posted on 06/06/2007 10:28:36 AM PDT by holeeroler78
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To: holeeroler78

I finally found this topic, I lived in Lawton Oklahoma at the time of the horrific event. I was in boyscouting as my sisters were in girlscouting. The GSA stopped letting brownies and the other younger girls camp overnight after this event. Interesting enough, about two years after these murders I worked a GSA camp north of OK city since i was an eagle scout with a friend, the name escapes me at this time. The first night we were going to have the cadets stay overnight. Camp was all setup and at night fall one girl needed to go back to the main camp and all others followed. They all decided to go back home and not stay till the next night since they did not have adequate supplies. MY friend and I were the first one in the camp in the morning and we went to their campsite first. to check if everything was ok. The last tent had been slashed open in the back with a knife. The person or persons had came in the tent then walked through since no one was in it, they exited the front, then shot the camp up with what appeared to be a 410. WE cleaned the area and then the camp officials were notified and security was set up 24 hr watch. This always bothered me that it seemed to follow the same method as the Camp Scott and what would have happened if those 7 girls had stayed that night. I am so convinced that this is not a coincidence.

18 posted on 08/10/2007 1:59:05 AM PDT by ericesh
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To: holeeroler78

That’s a new website set up with a nice message board to discuss this case. Please try it out and post all you want. The more information the better!

19 posted on 08/16/2007 8:02:28 PM PDT by NEEDTHETRUTH
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