Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Video: Betrayal at Little Big Horn, the evidence
Video ^ | 05/10/07 | drzz

Posted on 05/10/2007 5:43:50 AM PDT by drzz

This is the sequel to the other videos about Custer's Last Stand, and how Custer was betrayed by his subordinates in the battle during one the most famous disaster in US military history.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: bush; cavalry; custer; history; iran; iraq; military; usa; war
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-110 next last

1 posted on 05/10/2007 5:43:54 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: drzz

The other videos are:

VIDEOS: US General in chief Miles on Little Big Horn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6tFXzvKJTc

The Little Big Horn case (I): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKeTsG2JpQA

The real story of the battle of the Washita: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4534E1cCLyQ

Custer’s Last Thoughts (Americans stand and fight):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsMb3U6CfqA

The Custer legacy, from Gettysburg to Baghdad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwmbCWz7Dxg

The 210 heroes of Little Big Horn (Their colors never ran):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFTNymZOcUs

The website: http://www.custerwest.orgm (videos and facts in English)


2 posted on 05/10/2007 5:47:23 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: drzz

The Lakota had repeating rifles, not bows and arrows, as in that painting. The Army had single shot rifles and Colt sidearms. They never had a prayer.......


3 posted on 05/10/2007 5:48:10 AM PDT by Red Badger (My gerund got caught in my diphthong, and now I have a dangling participle...............)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: drzz

The Indians had repeating rifles from the black market while the military provided Custer with single shots.

Who is gonna win?


4 posted on 05/10/2007 5:49:08 AM PDT by Vision ("Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence is in him." Jeremiah 17:7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: drzz

Even if he hadn’t alienated his officers so they weren’t ready to go the extra mile for him, and they had rushed in, Custer was in an indefensible place and they would have all died.

He died because of his hubris at underestimating the enemy in both number and determination to fight, at putting his men in a position where they got outflanked, by choosing not to believe in the intelligence he was getting from his scouts, and by splitting his forces which were too few for the situation anyway.

IMHO


5 posted on 05/10/2007 5:49:22 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

Even if their guns hadn’t had jammed up from overheating.


6 posted on 05/10/2007 5:50:39 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger

The Lakotas had only 150 repeater rifles and were only 950 to 1’500 with bad organization and a high number of “friendly fire”.

Custer HAD every chance to win.

Last National Park Service researchs showed that Custer’s 210 men killed more than 200 warriors on the battlefield alone (dead from wounds and wounded not icluded). As US general in chief Nelson A Miles wrote (watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6tFXzvKJTc), the battle was not impossible. Not at all.

That’s why Benteen and Reno lied after the fight to say that Custer had no plan, no strategy... Pure lies.


7 posted on 05/10/2007 5:51:10 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

Archaeological studies show that only 9 to 10 rifles had problems - and there were 647 rifles.


8 posted on 05/10/2007 5:52:19 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: drzz

What a coincidence that this comes out at the same time as the news of the RINOs visiting Bush to tell him they are jumping ship on the war effort.


9 posted on 05/10/2007 5:52:32 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

I tend to agree. Custer was a very poor leader and general.
He made a very good pompous and egotistical fool, however.

He doesn’t deserve ‘hero’ status. It’s a pity he took so many men to their deaths.


10 posted on 05/10/2007 5:53:10 AM PDT by AIM-54
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger

The insanity of government policies strikes again!

The Indians managed to obtain repeating rifles, primarily from government agents (allegedly for hunting). Then we give our own troops outdated single-shot rifles.

It reminds me of the border and policies governing police departments. Drug dealers, mules, etc have advanced weaponry while our police are constrained by the fear that an innocent person (or even the criminal) might be injured.

Like the US Troops at Little Big Horn, I am shocked that anyone becomes a police officer or border agent, knowing that the Democrats believe that YOU are the real criminals.


11 posted on 05/10/2007 5:53:30 AM PDT by whitedog57
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

I agree with you. I’ve been reading a lot of this revisionist history here lately.His arrogance got him in a world of hurt and the “savage” turned out to have more fight in them then Custer anticipated !!!


12 posted on 05/10/2007 5:53:38 AM PDT by Obie Wan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

Couple what you said with what I believe is the fact, I don’t think he really knew how big the village was.

When his scouts first showed him the village he kept telling them “I don’t see it.”

I believe God, for whatever reason, blinded him to the reality of what he faced.


13 posted on 05/10/2007 5:54:45 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Our Forefathers roared for Liberty, their children now whine for security and safety.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

He never underestimated anyone. It’s a myth.

The Indians were 950 to 1’500 and Custer said to his officers that they would attack 1’500 warriors at last. He was right.

The “underestimation” is a pure lie, a myth that was created to explain the defeat to the American people. Custer was never outflanked, it’s a myth too and historians have crushed it since a long time. Watch the videos.

Custer’s men made a hard fight during more than two hours without getting any support or help.

The Indian determination was poor: all of the warriors were surprised twice by Custer’s movements and specialists think that up to 500 warriors left the battle before the ending because of Custer’s fire.


14 posted on 05/10/2007 5:55:12 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: drzz

Same crap, different day.


15 posted on 05/10/2007 5:55:30 AM PDT by gate2wire (Street Sense)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Verginius Rufus

Hum ?

It’s an historical study. No politics around here.


16 posted on 05/10/2007 5:55:41 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: AIM-54

Totally untrue. Sorry, but you have a bad knowledge of Custer’s life and his last battle. Watch the videos, it can be a good start.


17 posted on 05/10/2007 5:56:20 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Obie Wan

You are entirely wrong.


18 posted on 05/10/2007 5:57:04 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: drzz

The Indians were 950 to 1’500 and Custer said to his officers that they would attack 1’500 warriors at last. He was right.

Yeah He was right. Dead right !!!


19 posted on 05/10/2007 5:57:51 AM PDT by Obie Wan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Leatherneck_MT

Stop believing in the MYTHS !

The village wasn’t that large, there were only 1’500 warriors in a 1 mile village.

The “enormous village” with “thousands of warriors” is pure lie, every Little Big Horn historians knows it.


20 posted on 05/10/2007 5:58:12 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: drzz

Everything else I said is true. They died of Custer’s miscalculation of the enemy forces and some bad management decisions, including how Custer related to his officers.

Underestimating the enemy is always a bad thing.

Getting seriously outflanked is also a bad thing.

Doing it when undermanned in an indefensible location is a bad thing too...


21 posted on 05/10/2007 5:58:38 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger
I actually see at least three Lakota with firearms....Two long guns, one with pistol.

Disclaimer: I wear bifocals..so maybe I'm not seeing what you are seeing. lol!!

FRegards,

22 posted on 05/10/2007 5:58:54 AM PDT by Osage Orange (Hillary's heart is blacker than the devil's riding boots......................)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Leatherneck_MT

That was key. He didn’t realize it was a war village, nor the size of it. He needed to believe his intelligence and get more before acting.


23 posted on 05/10/2007 5:59:49 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Obie Wan

The Indians had a so poor organization that they were surprised twice during the battle and suffered great friendly fire.

Previous US victories in the Plains were Adobe Walls or Beecher’s Island, which opposed 50 soldiers to 1’500 warriors.

Custer’s 647 men COULD defeat 1’500 warriors, it would be a hard fight but a possible victory, and US general in chief Nelson A Miles clearly said it.


24 posted on 05/10/2007 6:00:21 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: drzz

Interesting video, but really presents no real “PROOF” of anything other than Benteen didn’t choose to commit suicide.


25 posted on 05/10/2007 6:00:51 AM PDT by GoldenPup
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum
Underestimating the enemy is always a bad thing.

Getting seriously outflanked is also a bad thing.

Doing it when undermanned in an indefensible location is a bad thing too...

All lessons that the German Sixth Army re-learned at Stalingrad, 65 years later.

26 posted on 05/10/2007 6:01:22 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Wise men don't need to debate; men who need to debate are not wise." -- Tao Te Ching)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger
beside what other folks have written here, Custer had the option to take along Gatling guns...
...he felt towing caissons lessened a cavalry detachment.

also he did not want to carry two types of ammo...the older 50-70 Ammo for the Gatling's and the newer 45-70 ammo for the Model 1873 Trapdoor Springfield Rifles/Carbines. Bringing the Gatlings could have made a difference. Also the Army brass didnt like the idea of wasting ammo in repeating rifles so even though the Henry and Spencer repeating rifles were used by Union forces in the Civil War, they were put out of business after the war. For long range high power shooting the Trapdoor Springfield was the superior weapon, but for fighting the close-in guerrilla tactics of the Indians, it was way to slow. the Indians put their repeaters to good use.

27 posted on 05/10/2007 6:01:52 AM PDT by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Knitting A Conundrum

It is not true, sorry.

Custer said that he would find 1’500 warriors, and there were 1’500 warriors.

Caryz Horse never flanked Custer, Custer died by waiting for Benteen and Reno after a two-hours battle.

The location wasn’t indefensible, the took a stand for more than two hours there.


28 posted on 05/10/2007 6:01:53 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger

IIRC, they had bows and arrows too.


29 posted on 05/10/2007 6:02:43 AM PDT by Tribune7 (A bleeding heart does nothing but ruin the carpet)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Vaquero

Gatling guns were far too heavy for a cavalry unit. Impossible to take them along.


30 posted on 05/10/2007 6:03:01 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger

“The Lakota had repeating rifles, not bows and arrows, as in that painting. The Army had single shot rifles and Colt sidearms. They never had a prayer.......”

Yep. Custer was badly outgunned, something most don’t realize. And it was primarily his own fault.

Never did understand the odd notion of chasing ‘glory’ from that era.


31 posted on 05/10/2007 6:03:19 AM PDT by Badeye (If you can't take a response, don't post in an open forum is my advice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: drzz
I suppose he also didn’t leave the gatling guns behind either?
32 posted on 05/10/2007 6:03:29 AM PDT by sticker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: GoldenPup

Watch General Miles’ study of the battle (1877-1898):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6tFXzvKJTc


33 posted on 05/10/2007 6:03:58 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: sticker

“I suppose he also didn’t leave the gatling guns behind either?”

One of those ‘what ifs’ you can debate forever.


34 posted on 05/10/2007 6:04:49 AM PDT by Badeye (If you can't take a response, don't post in an open forum is my advice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: drzz
Gatling guns were far too heavy for a cavalry unit. Impossible to take them along.

yup! Thats what Custer said.

35 posted on 05/10/2007 6:05:20 AM PDT by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: sticker

Terry took the Gatlings with him, he was late at Little Big Horn and his entire column suffered because of the Gatling, which were also known as poor weapons, which didn’t impress Indians because they never worked well.


36 posted on 05/10/2007 6:05:28 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Verginius Rufus

This is search engine coordination.

This is beyond Dan Rather cherry picking the stories, this is now a way to create blocks which are triggered automatically in any random search.

It is akin to “miserable failure” manipulations of google searches.


37 posted on 05/10/2007 6:05:35 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Vaquero

No, that was historians say. That what US general in chief Nelson A Miles said.


38 posted on 05/10/2007 6:06:08 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: drzz

Yes, I know. But this is a political website, and to a hammer, everything looks like a nail.


39 posted on 05/10/2007 6:06:55 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Verginius Rufus

I just want to present an historical study about the Little Big Horn.

If I was presenting it on a liberal website, the entire debate would be “can we ever honor a US soldier” etc.

I hope that posting on a conservative website will bring more serious comments, because you are patriots and always ready to look carefully at the facts, especially if a US soldier like Custer was tarnished for a disaster he didn’t cause.

Watch:
http://www.custerwest.org (website in English/French with facts and videos)

VIDEOS: US General in chief Miles on Little Big Horn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6tFXzvKJTc
The Little Big Horn case (I): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKeTsG2JpQA
The Little Big Horn case (II) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lwpHpq-iP0
The real story of Washita: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4534E1cCLyQ


40 posted on 05/10/2007 6:09:06 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: whitedog57
Custer's men failed to form up into any kind of defensive positions. The Trapdoor Springfield is capable of killing at ranges far exceeding any repeating rifles or other weapons used by the Sioux. The actual accounts of surviving Indians tell of soldiers being over run in groups of two or three, scattered over a large area not a "last stand scenario" depicted in movies. Poor marksmanship on the part of the Seventh Cavalry was due to the limited amount of ammunition the Army allowed for practice (10 rounds per man per year).

What kind of advanced weapons do drug dealers carry? RPG's?Stingers?Tanks? You have bought into the propaganda of the War on Drugs, lock, stock and barrel. The police of today have become the standing army our nations founders warned us about 220 years ago.

41 posted on 05/10/2007 6:13:36 AM PDT by Comus (There is no honor in dying with your sword sheathed)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: drzz
"Well the last thing that General Custer said, when he looked up and saw all the Sioux,
'I've got the I Don't Know Where I'm Going But I'm Going Nowhere In A Hurry Blues.'"
---Steve Goodman
42 posted on 05/10/2007 6:15:45 AM PDT by TheRightGuy (ERROR CODE 018974523: Random Tagline Compiler Failure)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Comus

This is not true.

The “breakdown story” was invented by the archaeologists in 1993 but has been totally destroyed since. Researchs in 2006 showed that Custer’s men were good marksmen, because they killed 200 warriors on the field alone (dead by wounds and wounded not included).

The Last Stand is a very historical event, which cannot be disputed. Richard Fox, who claimed that the last stand never happened, was wrong, and was ignoring every Indian testimony.

Indians said that the battle lasted long, very long, with heavy fire, the soldiers who saw the body on June 27, 1876, also testified of great amount of cartridges and a lot of skirmish lines (just as Indians testified).

There was NO breakdown until 5.30 and the last stand on Custer Hill raged from 5.50 to 6.20 p.m.

Many Americans are still aware of the archaeological studies, but they were made with only poor material (10 cartridges on Custer Hill, what a joke ! And 100 years after the battle! With the relic hunters having stolen thousands of cartridges !)

Custer’s resistance was long. Custer’s men had 100 rounds of ammunition in their saddles and pockets.

See http://www.custerwest.org


43 posted on 05/10/2007 6:44:25 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: TheRightGuy

A more historical testimony:

“Reno proved incompetent and Benteen showed his indifference – I will not use the uglier words that have often been in my mind. Both failed Custer and he had to fight it alone.”

Private William Taylor, 7th cavalry (M), February 20 1910

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6tFXzvKJTc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKeTsG2JpQA


44 posted on 05/10/2007 6:46:06 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: drzz

We have been to this battle field. It is a haunting place.


45 posted on 05/10/2007 6:47:56 AM PDT by Ditter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: drzz

I’ve studied this battle since I was 10 years old. I know quite a bit about it. I also happen to live very close to the battlefield and have visited it on countless occasions.

The local indians have an entirely different take on the “history” of the battle handed down to them by their ancestors.

One thing is for sure.

Neither you nor I were at the battle and neither you nor I can honestly say one way or the other what happened there.

Only those who were on Custer Hill know what happened.

and they are all dead.


46 posted on 05/10/2007 7:01:07 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (Our Forefathers roared for Liberty, their children now whine for security and safety.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Ditter
I've been too. It's a great experience, very powerful. The last stand can be seen just with the graves.
47 posted on 05/10/2007 7:07:05 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: drzz
I thought the crosses were put up where the men’s bodies were found, I didn’t think they were actually buried there. Correct me if I am wrong.
48 posted on 05/10/2007 7:12:30 AM PDT by Ditter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Leatherneck_MT
Nope. This is the "we may never know" sermon which is used by people who don't want to dig in anymore. There are testimonies of witness, military analysis and Reno's and Benteen's own testimonies and exhibits which show that there were perjuries, lies, false exhibits. The question is WHY? These men were alive, and well, and if they knew that they could easily defend themselves, why did they hide the truth ? Why did they lie ? 210 men were alone on a hill, surrounded by the enemy. They asked for support which never came. Custer included 400 men in his battle plan, but no one of these 400 men support him in the battle. Custer's honor and the honor of every one of his 210 men is at stake. Are you ready to bury their honor ? They fought for their flag. Are you ready to forget what they did? Are you ready to insult Custer because it's what people said at a time ? General Custer deserves justice, as a man, as a soldier, as an American citizen who answered the call of duty.
49 posted on 05/10/2007 7:14:18 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Ditter

Yes you are right.

Some officers (like Custer) were buried elsewhere in 1877. Most of the bodies were buried under the 7th monument, in a mass grave.

But Indians (and their barbarious customs) had cut the bodies in pieces, so it’s very difficult to know if every piece of the body is buried under the monument.


50 posted on 05/10/2007 7:15:59 AM PDT by drzz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-110 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson