Posted on 05/17/2008 6:18:29 PM PDT by Dutchgirl
I have been checking out various on-line IT courses for my college age home schooled son. I found this site for $149.00 that features a full menu of options for a flat one year membership,
SECURITY+ CERTIFICATION A+ CERTIFICATION
ACCOUNTANCY ADOBE
CISCO CLAIT
CONTACT MANAGEMENT COREL
DATABASES DESKTOP
DTP ECDL
E-QUALS GRAPHICS
I-NET+ CERTIFICATION INTERNET
LOTUS MCSE
MICROSOFT MOS
NETWORK+ CERTIFICATION NOVELL
PROGRAMMING SERVER+ CERTIFICATION
SOFT SKILLS UNIX
WEB DEVELOPMENT
and the other one in the link--whose typos on their web page do not inspire me with confidence.(My typos I attribute to my Saturday ration od Sam Adams)
Bottom Line: I have a great kid who wants to earn internet security cerifications without having to attend four years of liberal mind control meaningless classes. We are having a hard time wading through course descriptions to figure out where to get started. Soliciting freeper help and input.
If yoy want your son to get an IT career get him a plane ticket to New Deli.
Do you have some spare computers lying around the house?
If not, you can pick up old computers at the thrift shop or Craigslist for pennies on the dollar.
All he needs are some computers he can network, and maybe a book, and then some exam question cheats.
Self Test and Transcender were two of the traditional market leaders:
http://www.selftestsoftware.comThe advanced Cisco [and Juniper] exams are about the only ones where you might need some classroom time, because there you are dealing with actual hardware.
But people have been known to purchase used Cisco and Juniper equipment off of eBay and have taught themselves that way.
certifications are a dime a dozen. A good education is worth more, experience even better. Certifications arent a waste but they are better from a well known reputable source.
Thanks for the links. I am beginning to think that a few “Dummies” books and on line tests will be a satisfatory replacememnt for college for him. He’s a unique person. Did you know that the fishing rod in WOW was a lethal weapon?
Send him to a community college get a two year degree. If you want to avoid liberal colleges, send him to Bob Jones or Liberty.
Online classes are crap. I’ve done them.
“I am beginning to think that a few “Dummies” books and on line tests will be a satisfatory replacememnt for college for him. He’s a unique person”
Career wise he’ll do far better with a degree if at all possible. Even a 2 year degree. People who sell IT training and certifications often grossly overstate the earning power of their certification/training. Get him some training and then a entry level job. Build a lab at home that he can experiment and develop skills.
The local Community College wants $3k plus books for the same certification offered for $149...and the local CC also requires the basic studies in diversity crap in order to offer the AA. So, Appypappy- which is more crappy?
You get yourself a book, and some old hardware, and you study as hard as you can.
But then you memorize all the cheat questions from Transcender or Self Test [or preferably both of them - or some other firms - there are lots of people doing cheats nowadays].
Studying is great, but it's the cheats which get you the certification.
“Studying is great, but it’s the cheats which get you the certification. “
Doesn’t help him to actually know something though.
Nothing replaces college. College teaches you to work in a team environment which is essential in the working world. Community college should be fine. I’ve been in IT for almost 30 years and I have never met anyone with zero college experience. People had community college at least.
I was in a fraternity with a bunch of Aspbergers-ridden It types trying to come out of their shell. Of course, I was one of them. College does that for you.
Companies are pretty wise to that now. Certification helps IF you have experience. It doesn’t replace experience.
Certifications aren’t worth much. An associates degree from a community college is worth a lot more.
No - "actually knowing something" comes from studying and playing around with old hardware.
Passing the exam is something entirely different - assuming the studying has been done [so that there is some baseline level of competence], the quickest road to certification is via purchasing [and learning] the cheats.
Trust your gut instinct on this, and don't let these guys talk you out of it - by and large, college is a total waste of money [and when you think about what your tuition money is subsidizing, it's even worse than a waste of money].
Don’t get certification. Get the classes. An online degree is a joke anyway. I work with lots of people who don’t have a college degree. But they do have the classwork.
I took 28 hours of Accounting classes just to sit for the CPA exam. I never got the degree because I just wanted the classes. Note: My company paid for the whole shooting match. Sweet deal. If he could get a job at a company that paid the bill, it doesn’t matter what job he does for them. We had warehouse workers getting a free degree.
The key is to get him in the classroom doing the project work. He may decide he hates it.
My son just approaches the world and problem solving from a very different perspective. I think he would be brilliant in security for this very reason...but I don't think I can get him back to CC, which is like High School on steroids. Nor do I want him living in my garage at age 30.
Since he is already on a computer 10 hours aday, on=line classes semed like a no brainer. How did your classmates/Frat brothers do?
“Trust your gut instinct on this, and don’t let these guys talk you out of it - by and large, college is a total waste of money [and when you think about what your tuition money is subsidizing, it’s even worse than a waste of money]. “
nonsense, a degree isn’t required in IT but it VASTLY improves your earning power. Doesn’t matter what the degree is but a 4 year degree is mandatory as you progress up the career ladder. Especially when the job market is tight. I know people who managed to build a career without a degree only to find their options outside that company nonexistent.
Education is never a waste. Doesn’t make them smarter or wiser but it does set them apart from the chaff.
Keep in mind that schools like Duke have online schools. I know kids that have full blown asbergers and do well with the right environment. They need an understanding boss and some basic skills.
Thanks for the link.
My hope is that gaining certifications on his own will inspire him to higher learning in a subject he’s actually interested in. Baby steps...
I am borderline Aspbergers. When I was a kid, they thought I was autistic. In my teen years, I became an actor because I needed something to do. I forced myself out of my shell. If we had computers back then, who knows where I would be. Probably in a bad situation.
I do some computer security. I’ve had the SANS classes. Our computer security people are the most outgoing of the group because they are in so much demand. I couldn’t do it. I don’t like people that much and I abhor telephones.
I found that I loved to write computer code while I was in college thanks to my girlfriend at the time. But I graduated college with a 2.0 GPA. It was very hard to stay focused but I grew into it. It has to be something you love to do. I still build all of my own computers.
Here’s what worked for me. My parents never told me what to do. They paid for me to go to college and I made it on my own. I really needed to be on my own.
Buy him a backpack, a tent and a sleeping bag and dump him on the Appalachian Trail for a month. He’ll knuckle down after that.
I fought that for years. I don't think the world should work that way. I do better work than that dork over there! Why did he get the promotion?? Well, dude, he has a degree. You don't.
It's just the simple raw fact. And at top levels, there is another ceiling if you don't have a graduate degree. You might think that 20 years experience matters. Nope. You're not on the review pile if you don't have the degree.
I hate it. But it's truth.
In today's business world, it is almost essential to get some type of certification if for the only reason that it can get your foot in the door. The single most valuable thing your son can have in this effort is an insatiable appetite for learning, a rabid curiosity about how things work, and a single-minded focus and terminal perseverance on figuring out why something doesn't work.
If he has these qualities, he will become very valuable and earn his way to an IT job that will pay quite well. There are still plenty of employers who, once you get past the HR department, are really focused on what a person can do as opposed to how many degrees they have.
He is acclimated then for a cube job! If he likes computer games consider a job skill for the gaming industry which is growing. Games are a bigger business than the movie industry now. Business IT is no longer good for entry level workers. This has become dominated by Indians, both on and offshore, that compete on cheaper price. IT has been very good to me but I'm planning to go back to school to formally learn investing skills. I can see the end of the line coming for me in IT.
I was trying to find a nice way to say that the ability to play computer games is not a sign of anything. Disclaimer: I play computer games. I would say that reading alot is a better sign. It shows visualization skills which is important in analysis. A lot of our IT people are backpackers. Backpackers are generally problem-solvers and gear heads.
Gaming is a sign of a need for instant gratification.
That was once good advice but no longer. Video games are big business now and is growing vs. IT which is being outsourced. The game industry needs a wide range of talents including hard to outsource creative and artistic skills. I can't stand video games myself but if someone loves them it's a good career choice these days.
You basically just answered your own question with this. He is going to need schooling outside of the house at some point if he wants to achieve certain goals.
As far as his dealing with the liberal aspects of community college goes, seriously, big deal. It's a part of life and if he is going to succeed he is going to have to learn to adjust in all environments. The world is not going to bend to his thinking just because he wills it to be so. He can still aquire knowledge while filtering out the garbage. That's a lesson that should be learned by junior high.
We have a business incubator at Virginia Tech that does that. A Phd candidate will come up with a marketable idea. The incubator sets him up with a mentor team and set up an office for him. If the idea works out, they spin him off. It’s been wildly successful.
I mean no disrespect but for God’s sake, if your children haven’t gotten your message by college age, when the heck are they going to?
Although their IT skills were laughable in the beginning India is coming up to speed and they are starting to dominate the newer business IT skill sets. The pool of highly skilled business programmers in the states is declining. And about half of IT projects get butchered by the local talent so why not have the project be butchered for half the price overseas?
If I were 18 right now I wouldn't go into IT but to Wall Street. Financial services are cyclical but the skills can be used play the new world economy game.
Teach your son something that can’t be done just as well by someone named “Venkataperumal” in India.
For $5 a day.
I work in IT support, with a 4 year degree in engineering. Trends I’ve noticed:
1. Credentialed educations go out of date quickly. You then have to keep taking classes to keep up to date. College degrees have a stronger, staying power.
2. The on-line training/credentials are easily available all over the world, including India. Programmers can be outsourced. However, those who gather system requirements from customers, do data mapping, work in IT management - those jobs stay here. And IT security - always, always American and often in house. You don’t outsource your body guard to India, and may not even trust a foreign national.
3. A college degree - 2 or 4 - gives you more options. If you are a certified web master or certified software installer or a certified unix server person, you’re niched. Like an electrician, highly skilled but VERY limited in career variety.
College degrees by their nature include a broader skill set. Like IT AND project management. IT AND security protocols, whether with people or data. IT AND forensics, whether recovering wiped data or working for the FBI.
He went to college, and has a few upper level certifications (he's an RHCE, which is a very difficult test to pass as the second half is a timed live test on a broken system).
Here is a review of the test to give you an idea:
http://www.linux.com/feature/35283
He would tell your son to do what he loves. Buy or find old systems being thrown away, as previous folks have mentioned, set up networks, build clusters, install new operating systems, break it all, fix it all, and do it all over again.
At various times, my guy has had everything from ancient Macs to an old Alpha Server at home (iirc, it was about the size of a dishwasher). Sparcs (Ultra & pre-Ultra), SGI, some HP Apollo machines running HP-UX, endless PCs, and he knows every last one of them inside and out. He's run AIX, HP-UX, Tru-64, various versions of Linux, every version of Windows except ME, DOS, SCO-Unix (:(), and others.
He says that some people he works with have degrees, some don't. Some have certifications, some don't. But either way, it is key to master what he wants to know - to really be able to do it and do it well.
He also suggests that if your son goes to college (and he should if he possiby can), he should sign up for as many user accounts on as many systems at school as he can and learn as much as possible. Those accounts are free to students and they can be great way to get real-life experience on systems that may otherwise be hard to get access to.
While he's in college, your son could work to get certifications if he'd like to, or at least build the foundation for doing so once he gets out.
Good luck to your son & congratulations to you! It sounds like you have a great couple of kids!
My husband is an IT manager and hires all the time. Your son needs the degree (at least a 2 year degree.) He can get a two year degree (A.S.) that specializes in IT, or he can get a 4 year degree in something like MIS or Computer Science, and add certs if he wants.
As far as the “liberal” stuff, he can go to a community college for his general requirements and you don’t get all the liberal leaning profs you’d find at a larger university.
If he goes for the 4 year degree, his courses in his major won’t have a liberal slant (how do you make a course in programming or network administration “liberal.”)
Have him seek out internships while he’s going to school (even unpaid internship) that will give him experience. Certs with no experience are useless. Degree with an intership will get you much further.
Do the college or community college thing and ignore the over inflated certificate nonsense. Stare run colleges are a MUCH better deal.
We homeschooled, but "threw our son into the pit of filth" (your words, not mine) when he was 15 (he dual enrolled in college, never went to high school.) Going to college and still living at home during your high school years is a great thing. They come home and discuss what has been taught, and you can have meaningful conversations how to discern a prof's agenda, a text's bias, etc.
Our son graduated college at 19, and is in grad school. His faith is strong, he has not been seduced to "the dark side," politically or spiritually.
"Bring up a child in the way he should go...and he will not depart from it." We've raised them to know the Truth, and the Truth sets them free. They can be exposed to "filth" and know it is "filth." You can't isolate them from the world forever.
Yeah I guess I don't understand how a college class in psychology will ruin a kid...it's more likely sitting next to a chick with no bra and a halter top, that's a problem. However if they have been raised right and haven't been sheltered, it will all be ok. After all, when they graduate they will be working next to that chick.
I recruit for a big 4 technology firm and you must have a bachelor’s to even apply through my recruiting firm.
“There’s absolutely no reason that this exact type of arrangement can’t work with young men getting started in life.”
It’s a matter of motivation. If you are content to live in mom’s basement and play computer games all day, there is really no reason to do it. That’s why I hate the certification route. Trying to get into the IT world with as little effort as possible is bad mojo. I’ve known too many people driven to bad ends because they got into the IT world for the money and hated it.
One think we do at VT is make the incoming CS majors do Linux on their laptops. I think the rationale is this: If you can’t install and use Linux, you have no business as a CS major.
“We’re not going to throw our sons and daughters into a pit of filth after spending so many years instructing them in the ways of the Lord. “
Just to let you know. I work at a large university. Some of the mostly Godly people I know are college professors. One of our local evangelical churches uses professors as clergy. The problem is that many of the kids don’t know how to act properly. That is true of college, the military, the working world, everywhere.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.