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Catholic Church Chooses Wrong Side Again
20 May 2008 | mmp813

Posted on 05/20/2008 11:07:11 AM PDT by mmp813

Catholic Church Chooses Wrong Side Again

With the recent Immigration and Customs Enforcement ( ICE) raid in Postville, Iowa, and the resulting protests coming from the all too sanctimonious “religious”, maybe it is time to step back and take a look at what is behind these “do gooders” and “saviors” of the criminals crossing our boarders.

First of all let's get this straight. An “illegal alien” is a criminal. This person is not misunderstood and needs to be cared for. They are not a pet. They are criminals that made a decision to break our laws when they came across the boarder without the proper documentation from our country. That is why they are afraid of our law enforcement people. They know they are wrong.

Once again the Catholic Church has taken a stand on a modern issue and been found lacking in logic and substance. Recently, during the Pope's visit, he took exception to the United States border policy expressing that it lacked sensitivity for the needs of the less fortunate. The Pope chose to totally ignore the billions of dollars the American taxpayers spend annually on aid to less fortunate countries, as well as the continual problem we are facing with the daily uncontrollable assault on our boarder of untrained labor and often drug carrying illegal aliens.

Following the raid at the Postville Meatpacking Plant, the families of the detainees ran to the local Catholic Church for sanctuary. Instead of the Church working with the officials to assist the families, they allowed them to stay. They brought in food, gave them shelter and the illusion of protecting them from the government officials. The Church actually encouraged the hysteria by not working towards a resolution. The Catholic Church is way out of line. In addition, the Church encouraged people to protest the deportation of illegal aliens. This is the only country in the world where people who have broken the law go to the streets to protest being prosecuted for their crimes – and in Spanish no less!!! While the Church kept a rule on sanctuary in the churches in the Code of Cannon Law until 1983, they have continued putting others at risk for arrest for harboring fugitives, obstructing justice or disturbing the peace.

The Church has it wrong. It is not a matter of choosing between the illegals and the government. It is not an “all or nothing” issue. It is a right or wrong issue. You don't have to make aliens the enemy. The Church says to repent of your sins so, once again, the Catholic Church is showing conflicts within it's own standards of decision making. Why is the Church giving them “sanctuary” or defending wrong doing by pretending it is acceptable? That is hypocritical on the part of the Church leaders. Jesus recognized the authority of the government when he said in the Bible ( Matt 22:21), “Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's...” . This did not only apply to taxes. If the Catholic Church is having a hard time accepting it's place of authority along side that of the government officials, maybe the Church Leaders should go back and read their Bible again. As Saint Paul wrote, (Titus 3:1) “Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good...”

So what should the Catholic Church be doing? Maybe the Church could show some real compassion instead of turning these detainees and their families into a cause. Illegal aliens have broken the law but their children are not criminals. The children belong with their parents no matter where they happened to be born. Take care of their needs while they are in transition. Help them emotionally. Cry with them. Pray for them. Let them get on with their lives. Pretending like these criminals did nothing wrong, or the law is wrong, doesn't help them. People who do Prison Ministry learn that very quickly. This is no different.


TOPICS: Government; Local News; Religion
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; catholic; iceraid; illegalalien; immigrantlist; immigration; sanctuary

1 posted on 05/20/2008 11:07:11 AM PDT by mmp813
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To: mmp813
Why is the Church giving them “sanctuary” or defending wrong doing by pretending it is acceptable?

Power acquisition.

2 posted on 05/20/2008 11:12:10 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: mmp813

Is this a vanity post?

If this is an article, you need to post a reference & a link.


3 posted on 05/20/2008 11:12:09 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: mmp813

Hey if business did not give them jobs or Bush enforced the border, illegals wouldn’t be here. You’re focused on the wrong cause.


4 posted on 05/20/2008 11:12:59 AM PDT by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: mmp813

I’m Catholic and I agree with you 100%
Now join me as I don my Nomex undergarments. The “Church Can Do No Wrong” crew will be here shortly.


5 posted on 05/20/2008 11:13:35 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: mmp813; Admin Moderator

Is this a Blog?


6 posted on 05/20/2008 11:14:22 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ironmom. (but really made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: ex-snook

Correct on all counts.


7 posted on 05/20/2008 11:15:52 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: buccaneer81

Two divergent causes, a Govt that is “Supposed” to enforce it’s laws, and a Church that is serving God’s laws.

The two will naturally come into conflict, the Church is not above the law, and the Govt has it’s own job to do.


8 posted on 05/20/2008 11:17:59 AM PDT by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Isaiah 3.3/Cry havoc and let slip the RINOS)
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To: buccaneer81

I’m in a Slovak Catholic church, we have Tons of immigrants, all of them did the paperwork, paid the $$$ and waited to be allowed to stay here. Many have relatives waiting and praying to be accepted here. They submit paperwork at 120.00 a pop, non-refundable only to be turned down and start again. A good wage in Slovakia is 6000.00 a year.

I get ticked when ANY one stands for Illegals.
Let those people get in the grocery store line and have someone “cut” then see the fit they have!!!!!!


9 posted on 05/20/2008 11:18:29 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ironmom. (but really made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: mmp813; NYer; Salvation; ArrogantBustard; Tax-chick; netmilsmom; sandyeggo

The Church is a world-wode body that has outlasted all other governments, so its opinion should not be taken lightly.

The Church rightly urges all wealthy nations to welcome the poor of other nations to share in the abundance. That is what Christians do.

The Church is not responsible for the lack of enforcement of our laws. Our culture has invited these immigrants in, despite the pretense of our laws that they are unwelcome.


10 posted on 05/20/2008 11:19:26 AM PDT by Notwithstanding ("You are either with America in our time of need or you are not" - Hillary from Senate well 9/12/01)
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To: buccaneer81

The Official Catholic Church position on this is not the only Christian Chruch which is wrong. We also have the Quakers, Methodists, and others who support this and are part of the “sanctuary” movement.

Nor is this the ONLY issue where Christian Churches have nce again, broken with their antecedents and worked to undermine western civilization. Most of these groups are also doctrinally obligate pacifists or have become so infuenced by the anti-war movement that they are ostensibly so. They are often also opposed to the Second Amendment and to things like Initiative and Referendum.

It is no accident that Islam is making inroads in the west as the western Christian Churches become increasingly politicized leftwards and consequently loose the support of their bases.


11 posted on 05/20/2008 11:20:43 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: Notwithstanding

>>The Church is not responsible for the lack of enforcement of our laws. Our culture has invited these immigrants in, despite the pretense of our laws that they are unwelcome.<<

What about the Slovak Catholics waiting that are being denied because the illegals are waltzing in?
Why isn’t our church standing for them? Or the Poles?


12 posted on 05/20/2008 11:21:14 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ironmom. (but really made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: netmilsmom

My Mom came here legally as well. Three years of paperwork, waiting, and guarantees by a sponsor that she wouldn’t be a burden to the taxpayers. That was in 1959. She became a citizen in 1965.


13 posted on 05/20/2008 11:21:30 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: buccaneer81

God Love your Mom!!!!


14 posted on 05/20/2008 11:22:45 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ironmom. (but really made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: Notwithstanding

Took longer than I thought for the first “Church Trumps US Citizens Wishes And Rights” post.
The Church is WRONG on this one. Period.


15 posted on 05/20/2008 11:25:38 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: mmp813

It is the french style of governance.

When the mob can protest enough it is treated as a referendum in parlamentary forms of government.


16 posted on 05/20/2008 11:27:28 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: mmp813

Natural Law states Freedom of Movement of Goods, Capital and People. Everything else are fantasies that only a huge amount of money can build for some time.

The Catholic Church is right.


17 posted on 05/20/2008 11:27:58 AM PDT by J Aguilar (Veritas vos liberabit)
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To: Notwithstanding
The Church rightly urges all wealthy nations to welcome the poor drug dealers, rapists, drunk drivers and murderers of other nations to share in the abundance.

There, fixed it for you.

18 posted on 05/20/2008 11:27:59 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: mmp813

“Recently, during the Pope’s visit, he took exception to the United States border policy expressing that it lacked sensitivity for the needs of the less fortunate”

Then he should have no problem funding them immigrating to Rome.


19 posted on 05/20/2008 11:28:11 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative

>>“Recently, during the Pope’s visit, he took exception to the United States border policy expressing that it lacked sensitivity for the needs of the less fortunate”<<

Actually, no one has been able to find a direct quote on this. The story came from an NPR article and there was a big whoopla connected with it when the Pope was here.

The Catholics asked for a direct quote. No one could find anything but a paraphrase by NPR. I’m not sure I trust them.


20 posted on 05/20/2008 11:32:36 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ironmom. (but really made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: ex-snook
Hey if business did not give them jobs or Bush enforced the border, illegals wouldn’t be here. You’re focused on the wrong cause.

There's plenty of blame to go around. This isn't a zero-sum.

We can blame

Even if that organization just happens to be a church.

21 posted on 05/20/2008 11:34:28 AM PDT by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: J Aguilar

One look at the whackjob links on your FR homepage tells me all I need to know.
Take the Mexicans to Spain. Then they can disrupt people who speak the lingo.


22 posted on 05/20/2008 11:35:40 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: buccaneer81

Oh come on!

Spain is in economic crises now. But look at you, growing even with such scaring fuel prices!


23 posted on 05/20/2008 11:38:28 AM PDT by J Aguilar (Veritas vos liberabit)
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And here is the quote from Michelle Malkin who surprisingly added “illegal” or “undocumented” to the word immigrant without it being there.....

Following a White House visit, a joint statement from the U.S. and the Vatican hinted that Benedict raised concerns with President Bush about punitive immigration laws. It said the leaders discussed “the need for a coordinated policy regarding immigration, especially the humane treatment of immigrants and the well-being of their families.”


24 posted on 05/20/2008 11:41:12 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Ironmom. (but really made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: buccaneer81

I’m Catholic also, I have not given to The Bishop’s Annual Appeal last year and I won’t this year either because of this.


25 posted on 05/20/2008 11:49:00 AM PDT by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: mmp813

breaking a secular law does not = committing a religious sin.

The Parable of the Good Samaritan I think guides the conscience of many in the Church who help illegals.


26 posted on 05/20/2008 11:55:10 AM PDT by bioqubit
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To: J Aguilar

You people need to bring Franco back. He knew how to handle Commies.


27 posted on 05/20/2008 11:57:49 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: ex-snook
That's like exonerating crooks because people don't lock up their homes.

The agents you mentioned are certainly as culpable as the illegal invaders. But these people have made a conscious choice to flaunt our laws and violate our borders. And their home government, by encouraging and assisting them to do so, and profiting by their actions, has committed an act of War against the United States.

28 posted on 05/20/2008 12:02:10 PM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: mmp813

The Catholic Church isn’t wrong. They have their constituentcy just like Bush and Congress has theirs. At a time when the Church in the USA is shrinking, it only makes sense for them to support an influx of new parishoners from south of the border. Hispanics are predominantly believers and overwhelmingly Catholic.

It is our Government that is letting us down


29 posted on 05/20/2008 12:10:44 PM PDT by Soliton
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To: buccaneer81

General Franco was indeed an outstanding person.


30 posted on 05/20/2008 12:16:51 PM PDT by J Aguilar (Veritas vos liberabit)
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To: bioqubit

Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s = obey the law

From the Source


31 posted on 05/20/2008 12:34:30 PM PDT by right turn at the light
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To: right turn at the light
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s = obey the law

Correct, the law says you apply for a Green Card and you can come here legally.

What has been happening is that many Laws are being broken that the government can't ignore. 1) Identity Theft, 2) Social Security card fraud, 3) Illegal Immigration.

The right thing for churches to do, is to provide information and help to do the right thing. Supporting Identity Theft and Social Security Fraud is the wrong thing.

32 posted on 05/20/2008 1:00:04 PM PDT by sr4402
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To: bioqubit
The lesson of the parable of the Good Samaritan, like the lesson of the woman caught in adultery, is one in which too many people take away only half of the message, or the wrong message altogether. Explicit in the story of the adulteress is that "we are not to judge." That's the message, the ONLY message, that too many people -- especially liberal Christians and secularists want to walk away with. But also explicit in the story is that there is somebody who does have the authority to judge, there is somebody who does have the authority to forgive, and that forgiveness requires genuine repentance. None of these messages are convenient to a certain world-view.

Inconvenient to the same world-view are several messages in the Gospel that poverty born of circumstance is altogether different from poverty born of laziness (which is unacceptable.)

I wonder what message it is you think the Good Samaritan is supposed to convey? What I learned -- in Catholic High School -- is that parable is more about the salvation of the Gentiles than it is about the person who receives charity. But even if the story is, in your interpretation, primarily about charity rather than the person who gives it, could the Church not provide charity to illegals by admonishing them not to break the law in the first place? Or to provide those who have with a good meal and a ticket back home?

Love is not primarily about giving people what they want, but about doing the right thing for them: simply because a certain criminal element in our government, Mexico 's government, and among American employers lures them here, this is not the best thing for Mexico. Nor is it the best thing for America, or ultimately for the Church. If the Church wants to do good works for Mexico, it should focus on the endemic corruption and criminality that has made the country ungovernable, disease ridden, and impoverished despite a beneficent climate and a wealth of natural resources.

33 posted on 05/20/2008 1:28:39 PM PDT by FredZarguna (Why *was* the 'Blind Imam' blind, anyway?)
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To: ZULU

Sorry any Church is not in the law enforcement business. Churches have been in the sanctuary business. Bush is in the law enforcement business. If employers can find the illegals, then Bush should have no trouble finding them.


34 posted on 05/20/2008 1:50:48 PM PDT by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: ex-snook

Churches may not be in the law enforcment business, but they sure as hell aren’t in the law-breaking business and if they are, they should be put OUT of business.


35 posted on 05/20/2008 1:55:07 PM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU

Why are you saying Churches should be put out of business but not business law breakers? You are not really interested in solving illegal migration are you?


36 posted on 05/20/2008 2:03:57 PM PDT by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: ZULU
The Official Catholic Church position on this

You've obviously mistaken the prudential acts/statements of some in the episcopacy with the actual teaching of the Church but then you have no idea what the actual teaching of the Church is, do you?

2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.

Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants' duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.(emphasis added for your much needed edification)

37 posted on 05/20/2008 2:23:41 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: mmp813
Once again the Catholic Church has taken a stand on a modern issue

Suggest you actually familiarize yourself with the teaching of the Church posted here rather than continue confusing the behavior of individuals within the Church with the teaching of the Church. Unless of course you enjoy coming across as a fool.

39 posted on 05/20/2008 2:29:08 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: buccaneer81; mmp813
"Now join me as I don my Nomex undergarments. The “Church Can Do No Wrong” crew will be here shortly."......... LOL
40 posted on 05/20/2008 2:36:19 PM PDT by keeper53 ("In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..." -John 1:1)
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To: A.A. Cunningham
It seems to me that the official Church position, as you stated it, says “...subject to various judicial conditions...” and “Immigrants are obliged...to obey the laws...” of the country that receives them. That states my case perfectly. Thank you. While it was the local parish clergy that took it upon themselves to act so irresponsibly, I have yet to see any response from the Diocese regarding all the hysteria they caused.

I'm sure that the Church will be very relieved to know that the United States still welcomes immigrants and new citizens after the proper paperwork has been completed. However, the subject at hand are the people who chose to disregard our laws, by coming into our country illegally, steal other people's identity and use fraudulent Social Security Cards. This is only the beginning of the crimes committed against our country and our society. The Church, on the other hand, chooses to ignore all these obvious crimes and pretend everything is acceptable in the name of “charity”. This is not true charity. It is just compounding wrong upon wrong.

The Church has no right to make National Security decisions for our country nor do they have any right to obstruct justice when we try to enforce our laws. Is the Church going to accept responsibility for the deaths caused by the drugs being brought across the boarder by some of these illegals? Is the Church going to accept responsibility the next time a Boarder Patrol Agent is killed? I thought not. Then get out of the way.

41 posted on 05/20/2008 4:50:42 PM PDT by mmp813
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To: A.A. Cunningham
It seems to me that the official Church position, as you stated it, says “...subject to various judicial conditions...” and “Immigrants are obliged...to obey the laws...” of the country that receives them. That states my case perfectly. Thank you. While it was the local parish clergy that took it upon themselves to act so irresponsibly, I have yet to see any response from the Diocese regarding all the hysteria they caused.

I'm sure that the Church will be very relieved to know that the United States still welcomes immigrants and new citizens after the proper paperwork has been completed. However, the subject at hand are the people who chose to disregard our laws, by coming into our country illegally, steal other people's identity and use fraudulent Social Security Cards. This is only the beginning of the crimes committed against our country and our society. The Church, on the other hand, chooses to ignore all these obvious crimes and pretend everything is acceptable in the name of “charity”. This is not true charity. It is just compounding wrong upon wrong.

The Church has no right to make National Security decisions for our country nor do they have any right to obstruct justice when we try to enforce our laws. Is the Church going to accept responsibility for the deaths caused by the drugs being brought across the boarder by some of these illegals? Is the Church going to accept responsibility the next time a Boarder Patrol Agent is killed? I thought not. Then get out of the way.

42 posted on 05/20/2008 4:50:57 PM PDT by mmp813
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To: A.A. Cunningham
It seems to me that the official Church position, as you stated it, says “...subject to various judicial conditions...” and “Immigrants are obliged...to obey the laws...” of the country that receives them. That states my case perfectly. Thank you. While it was the local parish clergy that took it upon themselves to act so irresponsibly, I have yet to see any response from the Diocese regarding all the hysteria they caused.

I'm sure that the Church will be very relieved to know that the United States still welcomes immigrants and new citizens after the proper paperwork has been completed. However, the subject at hand are the people who chose to disregard our laws, by coming into our country illegally, steal other people's identity and use fraudulent Social Security Cards. This is only the beginning of the crimes committed against our country and our society. The Church, on the other hand, chooses to ignore all these obvious crimes and pretend everything is acceptable in the name of “charity”. This is not true charity. It is just compounding wrong upon wrong.

The Church has no right to make National Security decisions for our country nor do they have any right to obstruct justice when we try to enforce our laws. Is the Church going to accept responsibility for the deaths caused by the drugs being brought across the boarder by some of these illegals? Is the Church going to accept responsibility the next time a Boarder Patrol Agent is killed? I thought not. Then get out of the way.

43 posted on 05/20/2008 4:51:05 PM PDT by mmp813
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To: ex-snook

I didn’t say that at all.

How often do you beat your wife?


44 posted on 05/21/2008 9:42:56 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

“The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin.”

Another good reason I’m not Catholic. I am not under any such obligation, nor is anyone else. This is typical contemporary religious pablum and one of the reasons the Muslims are expanding and Christians are not.


45 posted on 05/21/2008 9:45:14 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU

The key phrase is “to the extent they are able,” which is eminently prudential and debatable.

It’s the business of the Church to ask for charity, and the business of Christians who are able to provide it.

It’s not the business of anyone to tell anyone else how much charity others ought to provide—that would destroy the very possibility of charity.


46 posted on 05/21/2008 9:49:41 AM PDT by Philo-Junius (One precedent creates another. They soon accumulate and constitute law.)
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To: Philo-Junius

“It’s the business of the Church to ask for charity”

No problem there. The problem is when they start demanding it and lobbying our prostitutes in government to provide it out of my tax dollars.

One of the reasons I left the Methodists, who are hardly any better on this subject.


47 posted on 05/21/2008 10:09:54 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU

Please keep us posted as to the Church’s pronunciations demanding tax dollars, then.


48 posted on 05/21/2008 10:12:30 AM PDT by Philo-Junius (One precedent creates another. They soon accumulate and constitute law.)
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To: Philo-Junius

When they demand certain actions by government which will generate a tax burden on tax-payers, they are demanding my tax-dollars.


49 posted on 05/21/2008 10:15:46 AM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: mmp813
Once again the Catholic Church has taken a stand on a modern issue and been found lacking in logic and substance. Recently, during the Pope's visit, he took exception to the United States border policy expressing that it lacked sensitivity for the needs of the less fortunate. The Pope chose to totally ignore the billions of dollars the American taxpayers spend annually on aid to less fortunate countries, as well as the continual problem we are facing with the daily uncontrollable assault on our boarder of untrained labor and often drug carrying illegal aliens.

Following the raid at the Postville Meatpacking Plant, the families of the detainees ran to the local Catholic Church for sanctuary. Instead of the Church working with the officials to assist the families, they allowed them to stay. They brought in food, gave them shelter and the illusion of protecting them from the government officials. The Church actually encouraged the hysteria by not working towards a resolution. The Catholic Church is way out of line. In addition, the Church encouraged people to protest the deportation of illegal aliens.

Ping to read later

50 posted on 05/29/2008 6:51:33 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" -- Galatians 4:16)
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