Posted on 07/24/2008 10:25:23 AM PDT by Turret Gunner A20
Oh yes .. this is going to be so wonderful. What a thrill. But ... the people demand that the government take care of them, and the politicians are only thrilled to respond if it means they can keep their precious positions of power.
Three stores came our way in just the last two days. The first was of a woman in Britain who was diagnosed with a small melanoma – skin cancer. Just a small spot. Problem was, it took her a few months to see a specialist to get it removed. By then it had spread and now she's going through the chemotherapy thing. May not survive. My own experience in this country – you know, the country with the hideous health care system – was somewhat different.
The lady what cuts my hairs told me she saw a spot on my noggin that she didn't like. Within one hour I was being looked at by a specialist. But then again, we don't have that wonderful national health care scheme they have in the UK.
Then there a story I saw last night on Fox News. This time it is Canada. You know how much liberals love to brag about Canada. Preliminary tests show that this young teenage girl has a budding tumor in her brain. She's now waiting for an MRI. Can't get an appointment for five weeks. Then, after the MRI, it is going to take another four to five months to get an appointment with a specialist to read the MRI an recommend a course of action. In the meantime this girl is suffering blackouts and cannot go to school. We just don't know what we're missing down here without this wonderful Canadian health care system looking over us.
Back to the UK. Another woman diagnosed with cancer. Her problem isn't a wait. Her problem is that she just flat can't get the operation. They're telling her that at 61 she's just too old. The health care services she seeks will be better spent on someone with longer to live.
But you folks pay no attention to these stores. Rationing won't happen here. There will be no months-long waits to have a melanoma removed. You'll be able to get an MRI within hours, or at least by the next day, if needed. After all .. this is the U.S. government we're talking about. A model of efficiency. Our national health care is just going to be paradise on earth. If you don't believe me you just go check out the emergency room of your local charity hospital. Look at all of the people there waiting to be treated for something that a spoonful of cough medicine or a squirt of Neosporin could cure. That ought to convince you.
When it is "free", people will ALWAYS demand more than they need.
Canada and the UK have horrific waits and high cancer mortality, unless you are a socialist politican/bureaucrat vermin, in which case you magically are seen immediately.
You know, like Teddy Kennedy.
Yay, Public Healthcare! From the people who brought you Public Housing, Public Transportation, and the DMV! With that track record, you can bet that people will do all they can to stay away from the public doctor.
Excellent little satire by Neal Boortz. Sad stories like these have been told over and over again in countries plagued by socialized medicine. It’s about time that the ignorant masses in the US woke up to the danger awaiting them.
“It’s about time that the ignorant masses in the US woke up to the danger awaiting them.”
You’ve never worked for a small business that cannot get an affordable health plan for it’s employees. Mind you, I’m on your side of the issue, but insurance costs are so out of control that the “ignorant masses” cannot get affordable coverage.
Latest quote I got was $3000 per month for family coverage, I kid you not.
THAT will ensure that we get socialized medicine quicker than anything I can think of.
“Our national health care is just going to be paradise on earth. If you don’t believe me you just go check out the emergency room of your local charity hospital. Look at all of the people there waiting to be treated for something that a spoonful of cough medicine or a squirt of Neosporin could cure. That ought to convince you.”
I’m not for socialized medicine, but I think all the folks that are against it need to ask themselves if they are willing to pay the full cost of an individual health insurance policy.
I think socialized medicine is inevitable in this country - and when it happens, employers will jettison their plans. If we are lucky we will be allowed to purchase our own private health insurance, which is mostly illegal in Canada.
There is a good chance that freed from having to care for every slob that walks in the emergency room, private health care plans, doctors, and hospitals will actually become affordable.
Today, it simply is not - unless you rely on the government, or your employer to pay it for you.
Have you seen the basics of McCain’s plan - or, more accurately, the plan his advisors have come up with and McCain has seemingly approved? It’s a lot more innovative reform than you’d think he’s capable of. Because of the incentives involved, many employers will be relieved of their burden of providing employee health insurance. Employees will almost surely take home more pay and will get a generous tax credit for purchasing their own insurance with many more options to choose from, since state mandates in health insurance will likely be going the way of the horse and buggy. Much more of a free market scheme than anything I’ve seen out of a powerful politician in ages!
WTH are you smoking?
When “it” happens, employers will be forced to comply with mandated coverages by law.
Almost happened under hillary care. There will be no choice there.
“WTH are you smoking?”
Do you know how the european and canadian plans “work”?
states have tried mandating employers do it that way (MA does, anyway) but there is still a significant portion that get it outside of their employers.
I guarantee you that it will simply be financed by a tax on employers - that way government gets to control it more.
Dream on.
Other than the fact that there are almost no state mandates at all, this is a federal government program and will expand exponentially, just like Medicare did.
and it will cover every person with nothing and I'm not just talking about Americans, either.
Actually, yes. They suck.
I guarantee you that it will simply be financed by a tax on employers
First you cannot “guarantee” anything, and second, a tax on employers is a mandate.
You can call it anything you like, but when employers have to pay, the employess make less and the goods and services cost more.
There is zero way around that.
I’ve seen lots of plans, including McCains. I do agree that insurance paid for by employers is not going to last too much longer - They are increasingly not offering it anyway - so that will take care of itself in time.
A boob job in hollywood (no insurance) costs a lot less than one that is reconstructive in nature due to, say, cancer that is paid for by insurance.
But its lot easier for folks to make the leap to socialized medicine than becoming responsible for their own private insurance.
It’s coming, you better believe it. It doesn’t matter how bad an idea it is.
Not that I think UK medicine is superior...but unless you got big bucks...you have at LEAST a 3 week wait to get a dermatologist to look at your skin. Other drs may be able to diagnose issues...but a complete exam requires at least 3 weeks. I have some issues on my left leg and while not life threatening...It’s a 6 week wait.
Are you trying to convince of something, or do you have a point?
I think we agree on the issue - I simply believe it is inevitable because I am not in a bearhug government or employer group plan - so I know how out-of-touch folks who simply say “I’m against socialized medicine, but I don’t pay for my own insurance” are on the issue.
I’m against it too, but you simply have no idea how inevitable it is, I do. Who pays for your insurance - based on your swagger on the issue, I’m guessing it’s not you.
“this is a federal government program and will expand exponentially, just like Medicare did.”
You’re right, and Medicare will be the model for (if not the actual) plan for socialized medicine.
“It’s a 6 week wait.”
Are you strictly NHS, or do you have a private plan to supplement? I’m just curious.
The last Q & A I read on Obama said that his plan would be for basic health care - that is to say, no such things as joint replacements. Meds for the pain and maybe crutches, but not total joint replacement. I admit I don’t know if those are the most recent thoughts, since no one I know can find a really detailed plan of his.
Here’s how Johns Hopkins had to bail out Japan’s health care system:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/05/business/sxclinic.php
I have a corporate plan that pays really well and when I called to get an appt, I was offered options rolling up into 2009. Seriously.
I just wanted to get my left leg checked out.
I’m in the US not the UK.
This will not be government insurance, and it would not apply to folks who wish to go on and qualify for Medicare. No, it won't help to stabilize Medicare, but it will reduce the total number of uninsured and improve the economy with more disposable income.
Yes, the problems with illegal aliens' getting government-paid medical care would have to be addressed separately.
Wow, I'd suppose you are very much a pessimist by nature.
I would be willing to fight a war to prevent a bad idea like that from destroying the fabric of a great republic. Nothing wrong with the US being different and better than Canada and Europe.
So, do you have anything substantive to add to the subject of the thread, other than your willingness to “fight a war”?
“Nothing wrong with the US being different and better than Canada and Europe.”
Do you really think this is the goal, or are you taking a page from the Obama campaign to come up with this little ditty?
When I said “Socialized Medicine is coming” I was wrong - it is already here in medicare/medicaid. So you better lock-and-load. People are going to vote for/support socialized medicine, because they think they want it.
I need to ask you, do you have a government health plan, or a large-corporate group health plan? It certainly seems so. You should consider how much you are going to have to pay on an individual plan with the present system? Maybe you have a pre-existing condition? Maybe you are on medication?
It’s easy for everyone to say how much they are against socialized medicine when someone else is paying the bill for them. It is equally easy for someone to say they are for socialized medicine if they have to actually pay for their own insurance, or they have to go financially naked to an emergency room.
You doubt that we will get full-blown socialized medicine? Why?
Heck, no. Obama and his buddies on the left wish to Europeanize America. On the other hand, I wish to perpetuate the great uniqueness of the greatest nation on earth, which is based on a system of law - at least on paper - where individuals have natural rights which government can't infringe upon (although admittedly, government doesn't always respect those rights). Mandating one-size-fits-all health coverage from government would violate those natural rights as American citizens to take care of our health as we choose. On the other hand, some of McCain's ideas on health insurance will, at least theoretically, move us in the traditional American direction of greater individual freedom in this area. Notice that, unlike the other side, I'm not calling McCain's ideas a complete panacea, but at least his program is much more compatible with traditional American values and law.
“Mandating one-size-fits-all health coverage from government would violate those natural rights as American citizens to take care of our health as we choose.”
Which is, of course, exactly what medicare is.
Since I think it’s coming, I hope that we’ll have something closer to the UK model than the Canadian model when we go to socialized medicine.
It still stinks, but at least there will be some mechanism for care above and beyond the NHS-style care.
But my point is that it is inevitable. If you actually paid the full for your own individual insurance, you would agree with me. If you had a pre-existing condition and tried to buy an individual policy, you would be for socialized medicine.
Businesses want it, more than half of Congress wants it, more than half of the American people want it. Medicare/Medicaid is already in place. When prices skyrocket, year after year, socialized medicine for all is going to come. I think it will come soon.
BTW, Medicare may be government run, and poorly so, but you (fortunately) will not be locked up for refusing to enroll in it - at least at this time. Plus, even Medicare enrollees have a right to contract privately for medical services rendered if they and their "provider" agree to it and their "provider" is not a "participant" in the program.
“I don’t accept the inevitability of nationalized medicine, and if you do, it would be difficult to call you a “conservative.””
Oh really? Well, if I can’t be a conservative, at least I can still be a republican.
That’s an asinine statement, but you’re entitled to it.
Let’s cut to the chase as to why you are so clueless.....Do you, or do you not pay for your own insurance?
This, of course is a trick question, because if you DID pay for your own insurance you wouldn’t be so self-deluded as to think that socialized medicine is not inevitable, given the cost, the cost growth of actually paying for it yourself. I’m not saying it’s a good thing that we’ll have socialized medicine, I’m just saying it is inevitable because of the expense of healthcare and the inability of average folks to afford insurance premiums.
So, who’s conservative now?
And if you say you still can be a "republican" (I notice you spelled it with a small "r", but I'll assume you made a typo), that's fine and dandy. But, thank goodness, you won't find acquiescence to the inevitability of nationalized medicine in the GOP platform this year.
So, do you pay for your own insurance?
Obama, is that you?
“Obama, is that you?”
See, that’s what I get for not using small words for you people.
If you do not pay for your own personal health insurance policy, you are completely out of touch with this issue and cannot possibly understand why socialized medicine is inevitable.
I am totally against it myself, as I have said, but having intimate knowledge how much small business and individual policies cost - I understand that the majority of people will not care about the obvious problems with socialized medicine - they’ll just know that they will get something out of it - more than what they presently have.
If you disagree, by all means say so, but if you want to debate with me, I’m going to ask you uncomfortable questions that will, I think, prove that most conservatives are really liberals on this issue, unless they pay for their own individual insurance. Which are you?
There. Were those words small enough for you?
You people?
Oh, my, how condescending. Why the chip on your shoulder?
Papa told me to never get in a p***** contest with a skunk on a balcony.
However, just so you'll know, I pay for my health insurance, so I'm quite aware of the issue. BTW, in answer to your question to justiceseeker93, he probably won't mind if I tell you he also provides for his own health care.
Why do you NEED a health insurance policy? I don’t understand this. If you make enough money to pay $3000 a year in insurance (or even $2000, or $1000), then you make enough to pay for your own visits to the physician, which would be what? Once a year per person times four in the family? That would work out to what, $400 at most? If you need meds, there are generics and plans available through the pharma companies themselves. And, if anything catastrophic should happen like a heart attack or cancer, there is the option of a payment plan, or charitable organizations. Honestly, I wonder what would happen if more people just didn’t pay the ridiculous rates for health insurance and took care of things themselves?
“Papa told me to never get in a p***** contest with a skunk on a balcony.”
What did papa tell you about playing the skunks part?
“Oh, my, how condescending. Why the chip on your shoulder?”
You were being annoying, I was returning in kind. I’m probably better at it than you.
“However, just so you’ll know, I pay for my health insurance, so I’m quite aware of the issue. BTW, in answer to your question to justiceseeker93, he probably won’t mind if I tell you he also provides for his own health care.”
Ok, gotcha. I’m sure that’s why Mr. Justice wouldn’t answer the question himself.
If you pay your own premiums for your insurance policy then you have seen them increase substantially above the rate of inflation year over year just about every year. I’m sure your papa also taught you about exponential growth and how it diverges from reality, so that even reasonable people will do unreasonable things, like support socialized healthcare.
Healthcare is broken, the free market (that isn’t really free) has not brought forth a solution that mitigates costs and expenses, so we’re gonna get socialized medicine. There is no doubt, only a matter of time.
Stating the obvious doesn’t make me a socialist. Refusing to see the obvious doesn’t make you conservative.
Be more polite next time, and you’ll get polite dialog, assuming there will be any more.
“$3000 a year in insurance”
$3000 a year? if only it were so. Perhaps if you are 20 years old with a high deductible.
I see you point though, and do not disagree with it at some level.
However, when everyone takes your advice and relies on charity, the well runs dry quickly.
“And, if anything catastrophic should happen like a heart attack or cancer, there is the option of a payment plan, or charitable organizations.”
I don’t think you realize what treatment for those things cost. The only alternative for most folks is bankruptcy....
again, everyone can’t go that path or the system breaks.
If you are young and healthy, it might work to your favor.
You’re deliberately writing ambiguous messages. You’ve said you are against socialized medicine, but from your other comments it appears you are advocating it, and yes, my reading comprehension is just fine.
However, I do agree with you on one point, it’s only a matter of time until this country has socialized medicine.
“You’re deliberately writing ambiguous messages. You’ve said you are against socialized medicine, but from your other comments it appears you are advocating it, and yes, my reading comprehension is just fine.”
No, your reading comprehension is not fine. I never advocated socialized medicine. I simply stated the conditions for it coming to be, and it’s inevitability.
That’s why I need to use smaller words in communicating with you people. You don’t read well, nor do you understand.
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