Posted on 10/11/2008 1:40:00 PM PDT by SatinDoll
Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)
“Check out this comment:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2103299/posts?page=255#255";
That is right. You will find a hint from Billy Jeff that supports this theory at 2:38 of the embedded video on the left side of the page.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=5506458
Not me. I’m not a lawyer. They’re the ones who split hairs.
As to whether you would be considered a US citizen if born in France to US citizens, the answer is yes. But your parents have to register your birth at the US Embassy as France would never recognize you as a citizen. Your parents weren’t French citizens. But would you be considered “natual born” as a citizen. Maybe not. It just so happens I’ve read the analyses of others on this issue.
That said, the important analysis I read concerned the original intent of Article II of the US Constitution as per its requirements for eligibility of a candidate for the Presidency. There are three requirements, the third being “a natural born citizen”. A major part of that analysis had to do with allegeince.
Basically, a person born to US citizens who while performing US government sanctioned duties in a foreign nation is considered a natural born citizen. Later, John McCain served as a Navy Officer and took an oath of allegeince to the US. His allegeince to the US is evident. There will no doubt be a challenge to his eligibility as the above is interpretation by Congress and NOT specifically in the US Constitution. (One constitutional scholar I spoke with stated emphatically that being born on US soil was the only thing that mattered. In that case, if McCain is elected and later found ineligible, Sarah Palin becomes President).
If you are born overseas and your parents aren’t working on assignment for the US government, as I understand it you would not be considered a “natural born” citizen but would have no difficulty securing US citizenship as your parents were both citizens. Even having dual citizenship would not hamper seeking US citizenship UNLESS the other nation does not recognize dual/multiple citizenship. In that case a requirement to repudiate the other nation’s citizenship and take an oath of allegience to the US would get your US citizenship granted (remember - both your parents are US citizens).
None of the above applies to Obama. He was most likely born in Kenya (the newspapers in Kenya openly state that as fact) and later he had Indonesian citizenship and may have traveled to Pakistan in 1981 (age 20) on an Indonesian passport.
Indonesia did not at that time (late 60s to early 70s) recognize dual citizenship. Since he was probably adopted by his stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian citizen, Obama would have had Indonesian citizenship.
No one can hold against him what his custodial parents did vis a vis his citizenship. But did he repudiate all other citizenships and take an oath of allegience to Indonesia in 1981 to get a passport stating he was Indonesian and Muslim? It surely would have made his progress through Pakistan and Saudi Arabia much easier.
Also Kenya was a colonial entity within the British Commonwealth in 1961 when Senator Obama was born. There is a very good chance that Senator Obama’s citizenship record is littered with British, Kenyan, and Indonesian claims on his allegience.
So the question shouldn’t be so much whether he is or is not a US “natural born citizen” but whether Senator Obama is too much a citizen of the world to care about our nation’s sovereignty.
Breaking Story: Prosecutor Fitzgerald Could Send Obama To Jail
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2103989/posts?page=1
[Chicago Sun Times]
Fact Check: Did Obama try to seek a delay in U.S.-Iraq talks?
CNN blog
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2104028/posts
American Thinker —
This could be the game changer (updated) [10 minute youtube about BO’s birth cert.]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2103980/posts?page=1
Dirty Bomb! Iranian Dirty Bomb Attack Against Israel Thwarted by Somali Pirates?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2103708/posts?page=1
Washington Times wades in on Odinga
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2103709/posts?page=1
Palin gets personal over abortion (It’s not personal to point out Obama supports killing babies)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2103684/posts
BTTT
Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?
The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.
Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are “citizens of the United States at birth:”
Anyone born inside the United States
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person’s status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.
The law pertaining to children born to two US citizens abroad is different than the law pertaining to children born to one US citizen and one alien abroad.The whole Naturan Born thing had to do with keeping the British from setting up stooge to be president, and bring us back under the monarchy.
I'm pretty knowledgeable on American history, and I've never before heard that one. My impression is that the Framers wanted to ensure as best as possible that the President, because he held the highest position in the land, did not have any divided loyalties whatsoever. Some have said that the "Natural Born" provision was put in, at least in part, to keep Alexander Hamilton out of the presidency.
The law pertaining to children born to two US citizens abroad is different than the law pertaining to children born to one US citizen and one alien abroad.
The whole Naturan Born thing had to do with keeping the British from setting up stooge to be president, and bring us back under the monarchy.
I'm pretty knowledgeable on American history, and I've never before heard that one. My impression is that the Framers wanted to ensure as best as possible that the President, because he held the highest position in the land, did not have any divided loyalties whatsoever. Some have said that the "Natural Born" provision was put in, at least in part, to keep Alexander Hamilton out of the presidency.
You are spending an awful amount of time and energy splitting some pretty thin hairs.
I wouldn't use the term "pretty thin hairs" when we are talking about seeing to that the plain language of the Constitution is followed and that we will not be ruled by a possible alien in the White House who will have gotten there by fraud.
“Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time).”
Does not apply to Obama as the law when he was born stated something different. It stated that his US citizen parent had to have resided in the US for a minimum of five years AFTER the age of 14-years. She gave birth at age 18-years. He doesn’t qualify UNLESS he was born in Hawaii. Being born in Kenya puts a whole new twist on this subject.
We haven’t discussed his mom’s attitude in this. According to Obama’s own autobiography, Stanley Ann Dunham Obama Soetoro didn’t consider Americans “her people” and she didn’t like the United States. She lived most of her life in Indonesia and is believed a citizen of that nation per her marriage to Lolo Soetoro. Though she filed for divorce from him in Hawaii, he passed away before it was finalized. So she was one of his widows (he had two wives.)
And keep this in mind - Title 8 of the US Code Sect. 1401 - none of this is part of the US Constitution. There are Constitutional scholars who insist that “natual born citizen” means what it has always been interpreted to mean; born here in the U.S.A.
“The 14th Amendment defines citizenship...”
Nice try. The 14th Amendment does define citizenship but not who is a “natural born citizen”. Gov. Arnold Schwarznegger is a US citizen BUT he is not “natural born” and thus ineligible to be President. Article II of the US Constitution sets those reguirements, not the 14th Amendment (Professor Laurence Tribe, Harvard, and Senator Barack Obama wish otherwise).
Some people have theorized that Senator Obama intends to challenge the Article II intent of the U.S.Constitution and replace it with the 14th Amendment.
Came as a surprise to me.
Some people have theorized that Senator Obama intends to challenge the Article II intent of the U.S.Constitution and replace it with the 14th Amendment.........
If the Kenyan birth is true, I would hope that the Americans will be so mad at his fraud and the DNC as the accomplice that it won’t matter because he will not be elected anyway.
Related thread.
American Thinker —
This could be the game changer (updated) [10 minute youtube about BO’s birth cert.]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2103980/posts?page=1
The lawyer in the youtube video mentions witnesses to Obama’s birth being in Kenya — including Obama’s Kenyan grandmother.
A devasting video in other ways too. Obama has some serious problems regarding his qualification to run if he doesn’t come out with documents quickly.
At this point, considering all the information coming out, I think this scandal will dog him throughout October no matter what he does. Please note my post above.
Thank you Arthur!
Don’t miss this great article out of the UK about Obama...
Everyone is out to destroy Palin - but it’s Obama’s past we should examine
Sun Oct 12
Daily Mail ^ | Oct. 12, 2008 | Melanie Phillips
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2104020/posts
Actually, Berg is going at Obama on both fronts — his adoption in Indonesia AND the witnesses of his birth in Kenya:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2103980/posts?page=1
If Obama is not naturalized, he could be deported back to Indonesia. If he was naturalized after adoption, then he doesn’t qaualify to be POTUS and will be sued for false advertising/etc. Regardless, the fact that this trial has gone so far is making democrats question their leadership.
Howard Dean has a lot to answer for, and it makes one wonder what the Dailey political machine in Chicago has on Dr.Dean. If they have nothing, this makes it even worse!
Thank you AuntB. Ope went to bed already. [Stretching at the porch.] Hey, maybe Mayberry will be saved again?
Regardless, the fact that this trial has gone so far is making democrats question their leadership...........
Yes and I understand that the judge is a Clinton appointee from a previous post. Also Berg was Atty Gen of PA I believe and probably maneuvered to get the case before a sympathetic judge.
I was there. The Chicago guys took Howard Dean to a smoke filled room and told him they had a video. Dean said one thing:
Aaaaaahhhhhaaaa!
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