VANITY: Experience with RAA Saiga 12 GA?

My scheming little brain | October 30, 2008 | PugetSoundSoldier

[PugetSoundSoldier]

So I'm looking to upgrade the old armory a bit. The 12GA pump Mossberg is great, especailly as the area in the US I live is quite urban. Nothing like a good 12GA to serve well in very close quarters. But a pump leaves something lacking... Total firepower before reloading, and a slow reload.

So my attention has drifted to the Saiga magazine fed 12 GA shotgun. My local dealer has some in stock - 10 shell clips are available as well.

Suddenly, having 10 shells - and being able to reload with another 10 in just 4 seconds - solves the one weakness of the old standby, the pump action. A clip in the rifle, three more in reserve...

So for fellow FReepers - anyone have any experience with Saiga or this rifle? I'm seriously considering it, as when paired with a good pistol it makes an EXCELLENT home defense and close/urban quarters defensive setup.

[fso301]

The only reason you ever need to buy a new gun is that you want to.

That having been said, there is no better psychological deterrent in close quarters like the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round.

[gundog]

The one with the bolt-hold-open feature is to be prefered. I find mine cumbersome to reload. I’d much sooner go with my 1300 Defender...7+1 and a side-saddle. Ya might want to consider a scope mount and a red dot.

[gundog]

... there is no better psychological deterrent in close quarters like the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round.

Ya ever had occassion to do that?

[MadJack]

I don’t know where you plan on buying your Saiga, but check out gunbroker.com

[Frantzie]

Is Saiga Russian or Finnish? The Finns make good guns and they are good shooter. Stalin found this out in 1939 and 1940. Those Finnish farmers were very good shots and the Finns are tough birds.

[gundog]

Russian. Yeah...the Finns built better Mosin-Nagants than the Rooskies. Damn that free enterprise.

[yarddog]

Generally spare mags is a good way to go but with shotguns I am not so sure. My Winchester Defender 1200 will hold 8 shots and can be reloaded from bulk shells in the pocket etc.

While not as quick as putting in a new 10 round mag it is better in that you can constantly replentish the mag. Shoot one, load one.

[Soliton]

Learn the difference between a “clip” and a magazine before you buy anything.

[yarddog]

I actually do know how to spell replenish.

[HiJinx]

Ya ever had occassion to do that?

Yes...to an anti-gunner at a New Year's Eve Party. Changed her mind. And her drawers...

[Centurion2000]

That having been said, there is no better psychological deterrent in close quarters like the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round.

And that is a gross mistake to actually do. Never give warning shots.

[Domandred]

Stick with the Mossberg and take some reloading tips from the pros.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU5dsnBsxXs

[oldenuff2no]

I have an extended tube mags on 2 870’s. I can work a pump gun about as fast as a semi. I have a couple of 1100's that I keep around as well but prefer the pump guns in a pinch. I've shot a lot of skeet and trap with both the 870 and 1100's. I've never seen one of these shotguns. The first thought I have about it from looking at the picture and hearing that it is Russian is about dependability. I've never had one of my pump guns fail to feed or function in over 5K rounds.
Talking about one clip in the firearm and two more at hand sound a little funny to me. Taking 4 seconds to drop one clip and insert another is way too long and sounds like a death wish. I change clips in my sig 229 or 239 in about one second.
First, if you don't clear up the problem in the first 10 rounds then you are in over your head and need help, yesterday.
Second, 4 seconds in a firefight to be out of action reloading is a deadly eternity, your death.
If you want to buy a new shotgun then go for it but get a good hold on your expectations of what it will do for you. You might be better off investing that money in a few cases of shells and spending a bunch of time at the range shooting your mossberg.

[bossmechanic]

Sorry all....
You can talk mossbergs, berettas and remingtons all you want.
My Saiga 12 just beats poo out of either or all.
I’ve got 5, 10 rd mags and a 20 drum.
Handles like a dream. I don’t care for 3” shells due to recoil. 2 3/4” you can just keep on goin’ with 00buck.
Never had a jam, never a misfire with wolf, beloit, rem ammo. Can’t pull the trigger fast enough to fail this firearm.
And the sound of 3 rounds discharged vastly overshadows racking one into the chamber. Takes the same time too.

[fso301]

And that is a gross mistake to actually do. Never give warning shots.

I'm not going to disagree but some punk breaking into your house armed with a screwdriver, knife or .38 spl will reconsider his decision to pick your home after he hears the sound of a 12 gauge chambering a round in the dark.

Most people will be happy to just have the punk flee into the night rather than having to go through the legal and emotional issues following use of deadly force.

[fso301]

Ya ever had occassion to do that?

No. It didn't get to that but a "WTF are you doing" spoken in a command voice did the trick.

Run of the mill burglars break into your home because they think you are away. They really aren't seeking a physical confrontation. In such case, the noise of a pump chambering a round is loud and unmistakeable. The person merely looking for something to steal will clear out.

For a person in a situation where they have reason to fear for their physical safety, prechambering the round in a semiauto shotgun and doing everything you can to get the jump on the intruder is probably the better way to go.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

Thanks Bossmechanic, that feedback is what I’m looking for; it’s proven to be a reliable weapon for you? I’d consider the 20 round drum as the primary with a couple of 10 round clips as backup, too - has the 20 round drum worked well for you? Any jams on either of the drum or the clips? Misfeeds in general?

For the rest, I’ve been in enough life-and-death situations to know that reloading takes a LOT more time than at the range, even on auto-pilot. Lead flying around you, it’s dark, loud, you’re in unfamiliar territory, and your blood is pumping a mile a minute. Fumbling with individual shells is not my idea of security - a lot easier to handle a large clip for me. I’d rather keep my eyes out than on the shotgun...

I like the Mossberg I have now, and will keep it, but for those times when more than 8 shells are needed, I simply want the access and speed and simplicity of a clip feed.

Much like I like semi-auto pistols over revolvers.

[21twelve]

I remember I was home from school alone back in about 6th grade and heard a noise by the back bedroom window of the house behind some bushes. I crawled across the bedroom floor and heard some voices - it sounded like some high-schoolers sneaking a cigarette or something.

I crawled back out, got my dad’s pump shotgun, crawled back and gave it a pump. The kids ran off real quick and I got a laugh! Of course I made sure to replace the shell I had jacked out and replace it - no sense in dad finding out. But, if he did - well, it COULD have been burglars having a smoke while they pondered how to break the window!

[OldTCS]

Something to consider, magazines once empty are MUCH slower to reload than loading rounds directly into the shotgun. Depending on your situation, seconds might count. Also having a shotgun pouch for extra shells is a lot lighter, and likely less bulky than carrying multiple magazines. There are also fancy new speedloaders available.