Posted on 11/24/2008 8:55:18 AM PST by Invisigoth
The real problem with the gay marriage issue is that the truth can only be found in either the spiritual or the scientific. The question that matters most is whether or not a person can be born gay. And the only possible way to answer this seems to be by discovering a gene that determines sexual preference or by believing in the Bible’s condemnation of homosexuality and assuming this means everyone is born straight.
Simply posing the question generally infuriates gays. First, the question seems to carry with it the tone that homosexuality is some sort of handicap, like asking someone if they were born cross-eyed. Second, there’s the it’s-none-of-your-business” factor. And third, there’s the argument that says, “Of course I was born gay, you idiot. Why would I choose this?” It is pretty understandable for someone who believes with all his heart he was born gay to want to shove his foot up your butt for even asking this question.
But to anyone who believes that we’re all born straight, he must somehow explain why someone would choose to be gay. To be asked this question is about as enjoyable as realizing there’s one tattered square of toilet paper left five minutes too late.
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The quote is BS, foisted on the American Psychiatric Association by the militant homosexual lobby. The APA were a bunch of cowards to give in, and there is no empirical data to support the conclusions.
I know some identical twins, one of whom is gay, the other of whom is straight.
So my experience is that sometimes, it is chosen.
Let’s assume for a moment that it is inate. God knows that, and He still said the practice of homosexual sex is a sin. Indulging our feelings and desires is not an entitlement.
God’s goal for us in self-control.
“Does not mean they chose them nor does it mean that they need to give in to them. They had no choice conscious choice in their development. They do have a choice as to whether they will give in to destructive and sinful behavior.”
Succinctly put. 100 points for you!
Colonel, USAFR
They may believe it, or say they believe it, but the ones I knew seemed to be created; by abuse of some sort. It’s chosen in that instead of help, the left has pushed to make their mental illness accepted as normal. If it were purely a born condition, then why do they push it on children? They’re trying to indoctrinate as they themselves were.
Most people are born with a desire for sweets or chocolate, or a desire to possess everything they see.
Alcoholics are born with a propensity to drink too much.
Should we excuse destructive behavior because people are “born that way”?
Most homosexuals choose their partners; inmates, on the other hand, are victimiz. . .oh, wait! Innate! Never mind. . .
My brother was “born to be” a heroin addict. Just ask him. He says its a disease he was born with. He had no choice.
First,
there is no gene that determines if you are gay. Both gay and regular scientists have been looking for at least 10 years and they haven;t found one.
Second, identical twin studies prove that homosexuality is not an immutable choice. If one identical twin is ‘gay’ there is a 50 percent chance the other is. If it were purely because of genetics, the other identical twin would be gay 100% of the time. Therefore, homosexuality cannot be the “I don’t have a choice” possibility.
Third, we have evidence from the gays and lesbians themselves that have said they have made a conscious decision to be gay or lesbian. These people made the decision, and they are gay people. Some have switched back, some have flip-flopped a bunch of times. Some have made the deliberate choice and stayed that way.
Environment and experiences during the critical sexual identity years have a signifucant impact on them. Teaching people that it’s okay to be gay during these times of their lives only makes things worse.
Exactly right about the APA. Apparently there were a lot of gays at the 1972-3 conference and they scared the APA into changing their view on it.
That is exactly the same observation I have had, with some children I knew growing up and with some of my own childrens classmates.
There really are people “born gay”. It may not be genetic at all, I think the current thinking has more to do with developmental problems in utero, perhaps too much or too little of certain hormones at the proper time ?
That said, its not clear that this is a either/or condition. The phenomenon may well be a matter of degrees of the hard-wired proclivity. Some people are certainly more affected than others.
For the most part male homosexuality is coerced. If when talking with a homosexual you can get them to truly talk openly about their youth you’ll find that they were molested and then browbeat by another homosexual until they accepted it. It’s why the gays go into teaching, churches and want to get into military training camps so badly. Wait till the ‘Civilian Defense’ thing gets started, they’ll be crawling out of the woodwork then.
They can be really scary (and who wants a pissed-off man-b*tch in your face?). Still, you’d think the shrinks would have a little more self-respect.
For a serious discussion, I recommend “Homosexuality A Freedom Too Far”.
Basically, there are two types: those who choose it, and those whose early life results in very powerful homosexual tendencies. For the latter, the choice is minimal.
I would have thought they’d have had a little more security working their conferences..!
I think you’re born that way. Too many kids I knew growing up came out of the closet when they left my home town. None of them surprised me. They were effeminate as children.
Well, I may be tied and quartered for saying this but my friend and I had a case study in her nephew. When he could barely speak (maybe a year and a half old) he would say he was a girl not a boy. For his second Christmas he wanted a “Beauty and the Beast” magic mirror. Ran around the house in women’s shoes, nighties, anything he could get his hands on as a child. Not encouraged and not dissuaded. He is now 18 and gay as he could possibly be. We secretly thought he might turn out gay when he was just an infant. His dad is a man’s man but there was no berating the child to be the football star but also no humiliation given to the child when he displayed more feminine behavior. Perfect case study. This kid was born gay.
every truly gay friend I’ve ever had believes he was born that way. They say they knew as early as they could remember that it was same sex people who made their hearts beat faster, way before puberty. Seems clear to me they are born that way.
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That’s because early childhood development plays a role, as does other factors, there may be a predilection, but there is no proof that they are “born” that way. Just the opposite, actually.
Read scripters links on this thread to get up to speed.
Alcoholics are merely alcoholics because they CHOOSE that mode to escape the weight of reality. Your operative word is “desire” rather than the target, and your point is more cogent than you may have even intended.
The human animal craves physical, emotional and spiritual fulfillment by nature.
What vehicle(s) provide that fulfillment are choices.
Is the desire to commit adultery chosen or innate? You Tell Me
This seems to me as valid a question. My response would be that the urge/temptation to commit adultery is innate in many and probably most people to varying degrees; however, the decision to commit adultery is a choice that is completely within the volition and control of each individual. I have never seen any indication that homosexuality is different or that those who feel attracted to the same sex are any less capable of choosing whether or not to act on sexual urges than their heterosexual counterparts. The bottom line: adultery is a choice and (according to my favorite book, including quotes from my favorite Carpenter) a bad choice. Homosexuality? According to both logic and the same reference, it falls into the same category.
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