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Is Homosexuality Chosen or Innate? You Tell Me
North Star Writers Group ^ | November 24, 2008 | Nathaniel Shockey

Posted on 11/24/2008 8:55:18 AM PST by Invisigoth

The real problem with the gay marriage issue is that the truth can only be found in either the spiritual or the scientific. The question that matters most is whether or not a person can be born gay. And the only possible way to answer this seems to be by discovering a gene that determines sexual preference or by believing in the Bible’s condemnation of homosexuality and assuming this means everyone is born straight.

Simply posing the question generally infuriates gays. First, the question seems to carry with it the tone that homosexuality is some sort of handicap, like asking someone if they were born cross-eyed. Second, there’s the it’s-none-of-your-business” factor. And third, there’s the argument that says, “Of course I was born gay, you idiot. Why would I choose this?” It is pretty understandable for someone who believes with all his heart he was born gay to want to shove his foot up your butt for even asking this question.

But to anyone who believes that we’re all born straight, he must somehow explain why someone would choose to be gay. To be asked this question is about as enjoyable as realizing there’s one tattered square of toilet paper left five minutes too late.

(Excerpt) Read more at northstarwriters.com ...


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: behavior; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; homosexuallinks; innate; society
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1 posted on 11/24/2008 8:55:19 AM PST by Invisigoth
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To: Invisigoth

Chosen. Questions?


2 posted on 11/24/2008 8:59:23 AM PST by jagusafr ("Bugs, Mr. Rico! Zillions of 'em!" - Robert Heinlein)
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To: Invisigoth

Homosexuality, for the most part at least, is just a fashion statement.


3 posted on 11/24/2008 9:00:22 AM PST by libh8er
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To: Invisigoth

It’s hard to imagine why anyone would choose to be many things that are deviations of the norm. Do people choose to be pedophiles? Arsonists? Fetishists? It’s hard to know if it’s genetic (could well be, but I’m not convinced) however, if it’s not it doesn’t mean it was a conscious choice, as in, they woke up one day and said, “Hey, I think I would rather have relations with someone the same sex as I am!).
Previous to our PC world it was considered a mental illness of sorts, and I’m sure there were various theories on why someone would end up this way. Now, I doubt we can even study it as the wrath of the homosexual rights groups would come down on your head.
If it’s genetic, is it ok with homosexuals if couples abort babies because they carry the gene to be homosexual? I would love to know the answer to that one.


4 posted on 11/24/2008 9:01:16 AM PST by brytlea (You can fool enough of the people enough of the time.)
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To: Invisigoth
People may be born that way, and others may choose that way.

Either way, IMHO, those people are in need of counseling help because it is not only unnatural, it is downright dangerous to ones health, as evidenced by any objective look at health criteria as well as proposenities to certaian types of crime.

So when society...and a new President, calls it okay, does that then somehow that makes it okay?

As with any other divergent behavior, saying it is okay does not make it okay.

I do not believe any society has survived embracing such behavior or life styles.

THE AUDAICTY OF TRUTH ABOUT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA

5 posted on 11/24/2008 9:01:59 AM PST by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Invisigoth

every truly gay friend I’ve ever had believes he was born that way. They say they knew as early as they could remember that it was same sex people who made their hearts beat faster, way before puberty. Seems clear to me they are born that way.


6 posted on 11/24/2008 9:02:18 AM PST by babble-on
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"Research suggests that the homosexual orientation is in place very early in the life cycle, possibly even before birth. It is found in about ten percent of the population, a figure which is surprisingly constant across cultures, irrespective of the different moral values and standards of a particular culture." Statement on Homosexuality, American Psychological Association, 1994-JUL.
7 posted on 11/24/2008 9:02:22 AM PST by soroptimist (I don't know why ya come here, I don't know what you want from me. Everybody says you use me.)
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To: libh8er

I agree that today that is probably at least partially true. I get the impression this may be more common among women than men, and part of that may be that girls are bombarded by the notion that men are attracted to that.


8 posted on 11/24/2008 9:02:38 AM PST by brytlea (You can fool enough of the people enough of the time.)
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To: Invisigoth

We all have bad inclinations, tendencies and temptations that we did not choose. What tempts you mayy not tempt me. I don’t know the man but my guess is that Warren Buffet is not tempted to shop lift. He may well have a tendency for pride. Don’t know. Yes, there are people who some how developed homosexual issues. Does not mean they chose them nor does it mean that they need to give in to them. They had no choice conscious choice in their development. They do have a choice as to whether they will give in to destructive and sinful behavior.


9 posted on 11/24/2008 9:03:07 AM PST by all the best
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To: Invisigoth
Some articles on the subject:

"Homosexuality Is Not Hardwired," Dr. Francis S. Collins, Head Of The Human Genome Project
New Evidence Found for Childhood Family Factors Influencing Sexual Orientation
How Might Homosexuality Develop? Putting the Pieces Together
The Importance of Twin Studies
The Gay Gene?
The Fading Gay Gene
The Innate-Immutable Argument Finds No Basis in Science

10 posted on 11/24/2008 9:03:15 AM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: soroptimist

Its definatly something your born with. I grew up in a private christian school attached to a christian church, grew up in a bubble basically and there was this kid that was off, I didnt know how to explain it or what to think of him. Years later in my 20’s I ran into this same kid at a bar and knew exactly why he acted the way he did when we were growing up!


11 posted on 11/24/2008 9:04:59 AM PST by Edizzl79 (you want my guns..come and get em...I dare ya....)
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To: babble-on

Your experience would only be proof if they told you that as soon as they were born, that is before they had any sort of experiences in life. Lots of things are set fairly early on, but that doesn’t answer the nature/nurture question. For instance, if it was caused by some child rearing method in early childhood. FWIW I think it’s a combination of things, something in their make up that makes them susceptible, and then things that happen in their lives.


12 posted on 11/24/2008 9:06:01 AM PST by brytlea (You can fool enough of the people enough of the time.)
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To: Invisigoth

You can be born with a particular racial makeup.

You can not be born to a particular religion or lifestyle.

I can accept, grudgingly, well, more accurately, kicking and screaming, the concept of discrimination based upon gender or race, but anything built upon religious or sexual preference is a farce to me.

To those who declare that there’s a gay gene - stop making excuses for a lifestyle choice. The ‘criminal gene’ theories have all been thrown out, it is just a choice by the criminal.


13 posted on 11/24/2008 9:07:31 AM PST by kingu (Party for rent - conservative opinions not required.)
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To: Edizzl79

exactly. and I can’t understand people who would A, want to prevent that guy from being in a committed monogamous relationship with someone like himself, and as a corollary B. why they would want him to be married to a woman such that neither one of them will be happy.

Bizarre desire to control other people’s individual choices in my opinion.


14 posted on 11/24/2008 9:07:48 AM PST by babble-on
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To: Invisigoth
It is pretty understandable for someone who believes with all his heart he was born gay to want to shove his foot up your butt for even asking this question.

As a first comment, it's not their foot that I would be worried about.

As a second comment, it's a choice, not something they are born with.
I have friends that used to be homosexual. I've even had some of them come on to me when they believed they were homosexual, even knowing that I wasn't homosexual in any way, shape, or fashion.

In all these cases, actually about four cases, which are all of my formerly homosexual friends, they have become heterosexual, married, and two now have children.
All have cited me as a determining factor that 'turned' them from their former ways.

Seeing my marriage, my love for my wife, my faithfulness to my wife, and realizing that they had never had anything even close to that in their own lives caused them to realize that their way of live was not the way they were meant to be.

I take no pride in this fact. I'm just reporting what they have told me.

15 posted on 11/24/2008 9:08:53 AM PST by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: jagusafr

Sorry, that looked a little flippant.

1. Sexuality, at its core, is all about biology: sex is at its most basic, for procreation. No two men, nor any two women, can ever naturally conceive and bear a child. That makes homosexuality abnormal in the TECHNICAL sense of the world, not as a statement of condemnation.

2. Every homosexual (I’m sorry, it’s the farthest thing from a “gay” lifestyle, as that term is properly defined) I’ve ever known or known of was the victim of abuse of some sort as a child, or grew up in a dysfunctional home wherein the father figure was absent, abusive or dysfunctional.

3. They’ve been (those who do this sort of research) looking for the “gay gene” for years and years. All attempts have failed. Ipso facto, until somebody comes up with completely new research, this question has been answered in the negative.

4. Your “20 million” figure is somebody’s WAG. There is no support - and I mean NO support - for it. The Kinsey report has been completely discredited.

Bottom line, for me at least, is that homosexuality stems from abuse, and that homosexual conduct is a choice, and (given my Christian beliefs) that homosexual conduct is morally represensible under any conceivable set of circumstances. IT DOESN’T MAKE THE DOER OF THE DEED EVIL! Love the sinner and hate the sin, no matter how mad it makes the homosexual activists, IS the only way to look at this issue.

Colonel, USAFR


16 posted on 11/24/2008 9:09:57 AM PST by jagusafr ("Bugs, Mr. Rico! Zillions of 'em!" - Robert Heinlein)
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.

How about adultery? Or polygamy? Or pedophilia? Or bestiality? Or necromancy? Chosen or innate? To be normalized because they exist?.

.

17 posted on 11/24/2008 9:10:42 AM PST by polymuser (Bye, bye Miss American Pie.)
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To: Invisigoth
Our sexuality, to whom we're attracted and how it all works together is, to put it mildly, quite complex. When I post that science doesn't support the born that way theory I don't mean to imply gays choose their same-sex attraction. In fact quite the contrary.

Now, some people may not understand what I'm saying so I'll try to explain...

When I say gays are not born with their same-sex attraction, I mean just that, and at the same time, I mean they don't choose their same-sex attraction. Somebody might say "huh"? They're not born that way and they don't choose their same-sex attraction? (Well, there's a small group, a tiny minority that admit to choosing their same-sex attraction). Some psychologists and ex-gays will tell you the same thing. Ex-gays tell us when they experienced their same-sex attraction, they were confused about their sexuality.

So they're not born with it and for the most part, they don't choose it. It's complicated.

People Can Change

18 posted on 11/24/2008 9:11:14 AM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: Invisigoth
"It is pretty understandable for someone who believes with all his heart he was born gay to want to shove his foot up your butt"

Can't argue with that.

19 posted on 11/24/2008 9:11:20 AM PST by icwhatudo
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To: Invisigoth
Is Homosexuality Chosen or Innate?

It's recruited by unrepentant fallible humans who prey upon those who have ill-defined sexual self-concepts.

20 posted on 11/24/2008 9:11:38 AM PST by 50sDad (-/\/\/\- Obama's coming; be a Resistor!)
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To: soroptimist

The quote is BS, foisted on the American Psychiatric Association by the militant homosexual lobby. The APA were a bunch of cowards to give in, and there is no empirical data to support the conclusions.


21 posted on 11/24/2008 9:11:45 AM PST by jagusafr ("Bugs, Mr. Rico! Zillions of 'em!" - Robert Heinlein)
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To: Invisigoth

I know some identical twins, one of whom is gay, the other of whom is straight.

So my experience is that sometimes, it is chosen.


22 posted on 11/24/2008 9:12:07 AM PST by Uncle Miltie (SARAH *** JOE *** 2012!)
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To: Invisigoth

Let’s assume for a moment that it is inate. God knows that, and He still said the practice of homosexual sex is a sin. Indulging our feelings and desires is not an entitlement.
God’s goal for us in self-control.


23 posted on 11/24/2008 9:12:10 AM PST by Wiser now (Happiness is not an absence of problems, but the ability to deal with them.)
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To: all the best

“Does not mean they chose them nor does it mean that they need to give in to them. They had no choice conscious choice in their development. They do have a choice as to whether they will give in to destructive and sinful behavior.”

Succinctly put. 100 points for you!

Colonel, USAFR


24 posted on 11/24/2008 9:12:46 AM PST by jagusafr ("Bugs, Mr. Rico! Zillions of 'em!" - Robert Heinlein)
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To: babble-on

They may believe it, or say they believe it, but the ones I knew seemed to be created; by abuse of some sort. It’s chosen in that instead of help, the left has pushed to make their mental illness accepted as normal. If it were purely a born condition, then why do they push it on children? They’re trying to indoctrinate as they themselves were.


25 posted on 11/24/2008 9:14:25 AM PST by kenth (It's now spend and tax. How's that for change?)
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To: babble-on

Most people are born with a desire for sweets or chocolate, or a desire to possess everything they see.

Alcoholics are born with a propensity to drink too much.

Should we excuse destructive behavior because people are “born that way”?


26 posted on 11/24/2008 9:14:48 AM PST by MrB (The 0bamanation: Marxism, Infanticide, Appeasement, Depression, Thuggery, and Censorship)
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To: Invisigoth

Most homosexuals choose their partners; inmates, on the other hand, are victimiz. . .oh, wait! Innate! Never mind. . .


27 posted on 11/24/2008 9:15:09 AM PST by Hootowl
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To: babble-on

My brother was “born to be” a heroin addict. Just ask him. He says its a disease he was born with. He had no choice.


28 posted on 11/24/2008 9:15:25 AM PST by LeonardFMason
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To: Invisigoth

First,

there is no gene that determines if you are gay. Both gay and regular scientists have been looking for at least 10 years and they haven;t found one.

Second, identical twin studies prove that homosexuality is not an immutable choice. If one identical twin is ‘gay’ there is a 50 percent chance the other is. If it were purely because of genetics, the other identical twin would be gay 100% of the time. Therefore, homosexuality cannot be the “I don’t have a choice” possibility.

Third, we have evidence from the gays and lesbians themselves that have said they have made a conscious decision to be gay or lesbian. These people made the decision, and they are gay people. Some have switched back, some have flip-flopped a bunch of times. Some have made the deliberate choice and stayed that way.

Environment and experiences during the critical sexual identity years have a signifucant impact on them. Teaching people that it’s okay to be gay during these times of their lives only makes things worse.


29 posted on 11/24/2008 9:15:55 AM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: jagusafr

Exactly right about the APA. Apparently there were a lot of gays at the 1972-3 conference and they scared the APA into changing their view on it.


30 posted on 11/24/2008 9:18:09 AM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Edizzl79

That is exactly the same observation I have had, with some children I knew growing up and with some of my own childrens classmates.

There really are people “born gay”. It may not be genetic at all, I think the current thinking has more to do with developmental problems in utero, perhaps too much or too little of certain hormones at the proper time ?

That said, its not clear that this is a either/or condition. The phenomenon may well be a matter of degrees of the hard-wired proclivity. Some people are certainly more affected than others.


31 posted on 11/24/2008 9:18:22 AM PST by buwaya
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To: Invisigoth

For the most part male homosexuality is coerced. If when talking with a homosexual you can get them to truly talk openly about their youth you’ll find that they were molested and then browbeat by another homosexual until they accepted it. It’s why the gays go into teaching, churches and want to get into military training camps so badly. Wait till the ‘Civilian Defense’ thing gets started, they’ll be crawling out of the woodwork then.


32 posted on 11/24/2008 9:20:10 AM PST by fella (.He that followeth after vain persons shall have poverty enough." Pv.28:19')
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To: Secret Agent Man

They can be really scary (and who wants a pissed-off man-b*tch in your face?). Still, you’d think the shrinks would have a little more self-respect.


33 posted on 11/24/2008 9:20:54 AM PST by jagusafr ("Bugs, Mr. Rico! Zillions of 'em!" - Robert Heinlein)
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To: Invisigoth

For a serious discussion, I recommend “Homosexuality A Freedom Too Far”.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0964664259/ref=sr_1_olp_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227547115&sr=8-1

Basically, there are two types: those who choose it, and those whose early life results in very powerful homosexual tendencies. For the latter, the choice is minimal.


34 posted on 11/24/2008 9:20:57 AM PST by Mr Rogers (And if there are those who cannot subscribe to these principles, then let them go their way - Reagan)
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To: jagusafr

I would have thought they’d have had a little more security working their conferences..!


35 posted on 11/24/2008 9:21:48 AM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Invisigoth

I think you’re born that way. Too many kids I knew growing up came out of the closet when they left my home town. None of them surprised me. They were effeminate as children.


36 posted on 11/24/2008 9:23:48 AM PST by LiberConservative (Typical white guy)
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To: Invisigoth

Well, I may be tied and quartered for saying this but my friend and I had a case study in her nephew. When he could barely speak (maybe a year and a half old) he would say he was a girl not a boy. For his second Christmas he wanted a “Beauty and the Beast” magic mirror. Ran around the house in women’s shoes, nighties, anything he could get his hands on as a child. Not encouraged and not dissuaded. He is now 18 and gay as he could possibly be. We secretly thought he might turn out gay when he was just an infant. His dad is a man’s man but there was no berating the child to be the football star but also no humiliation given to the child when he displayed more feminine behavior. Perfect case study. This kid was born gay.


37 posted on 11/24/2008 9:23:49 AM PST by MaggieAtlanta
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To: babble-on

every truly gay friend I’ve ever had believes he was born that way. They say they knew as early as they could remember that it was same sex people who made their hearts beat faster, way before puberty. Seems clear to me they are born that way.

_____________________

That’s because early childhood development plays a role, as does other factors, there may be a predilection, but there is no proof that they are “born” that way. Just the opposite, actually.

Read scripters links on this thread to get up to speed.


38 posted on 11/24/2008 9:24:22 AM PST by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
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To: MrB

Alcoholics are merely alcoholics because they CHOOSE that mode to escape the weight of reality. Your operative word is “desire” rather than the target, and your point is more cogent than you may have even intended.

The human animal craves physical, emotional and spiritual fulfillment by nature.

What vehicle(s) provide that fulfillment are choices.


39 posted on 11/24/2008 9:24:33 AM PST by sayfer bullets ("I didn't leave..., ...the party left me.")
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To: Invisigoth
Is Homosexuality Chosen or Innate? You Tell Me

Is the desire to commit adultery chosen or innate? You Tell Me

This seems to me as valid a question. My response would be that the urge/temptation to commit adultery is innate in many and probably most people to varying degrees; however, the decision to commit adultery is a choice that is completely within the volition and control of each individual. I have never seen any indication that homosexuality is different or that those who feel attracted to the same sex are any less capable of choosing whether or not to act on sexual urges than their heterosexual counterparts. The bottom line: adultery is a choice and (according to my favorite book, including quotes from my favorite Carpenter) a bad choice. Homosexuality? According to both logic and the same reference, it falls into the same category.

40 posted on 11/24/2008 9:24:53 AM PST by MathDoc (War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. Obama is Good.)
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To: Invisigoth

If you are an inmate, it could be chosen for you.


41 posted on 11/24/2008 9:25:27 AM PST by TexasCajun
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To: sayfer bullets

There is some proof that addictive behavior is genetic, and alcoholism is one outlet for that.

If your family history includes a lot of addicts, it would be best to CHOOSE to avoid recreational chemistry of all sorts.


42 posted on 11/24/2008 9:26:49 AM PST by MrB (The 0bamanation: Marxism, Infanticide, Appeasement, Depression, Thuggery, and Censorship)
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To: Invisigoth
Interesting that he uses metaphors involving toilet paper and figures of speech involving shoving something (a foot?) up someone's butt. Can you say poopie fetish?

One need only look at the anti-8's to see who are the HATE filled and INTOLERANT ones when you dare to disagree with them.

43 posted on 11/24/2008 9:27:01 AM PST by informavoracious (It's after midnight, I'm FReepwalking...)
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To: Invisigoth
two words....Anne Heche
44 posted on 11/24/2008 9:28:09 AM PST by stylin19a ( Real Men don't declare unplayable lies)
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To: Invisigoth

I’m not sure why a genetic cause for homosexuality would be dispositive of the issue of “gar rights.” Many behaviors are thought to have an “inborn” component, including left-handedness, obesity, alcoholism, and pedophilia. But if the behavior is deemed harmful, it’s discouraged - whether it’s “genetic” or not.


45 posted on 11/24/2008 9:28:20 AM PST by cvq3842
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To: soroptimist
American Psychological Association. Now there's an unbiased source. /sarc

Do they also int out that none of the various cultures has embraced homo marriage? Or that it is reviled in every society?

46 posted on 11/24/2008 9:31:02 AM PST by informavoracious (It's after midnight, I'm FReepwalking...)
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To: all the best
We all have bad inclinations, tendencies and temptations that we did not choose. What tempts you mayy not tempt me. I don’t know the man but my guess is that Warren Buffet is not tempted to shop lift. He may well have a tendency for pride. Don’t know. Yes, there are people who some how developed homosexual issues. Does not mean they chose them nor does it mean that they need to give in to them. They had no choice conscious choice in their development. They do have a choice as to whether they will give in to destructive and sinful behavior.

Excellent post! I know someone personally who felt drawn to the same sex as a pre-pub youth (was exposed to stuff at a very young age and got confused). By the Grace of God, this person overcame it with prayer and has been happily married for at least 20 years now.

47 posted on 11/24/2008 9:33:49 AM PST by GOP_Thug_Mom (libera nos a malo)
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To: jagusafr

Combination of mental and character defects and unfortunate childhood history. Every gay person I have ever known was a mess, had a messy past and was often histrionic and narcissistic.

I don’t know if they choose the feelings, but they most certainly choose to act on them. They choose to be flamboyant or not, etc.

Hell, I stifle my inclinations every day and choose not to kill people, so don’t tell me they don’t choose to act on their impulses. Of course they choose.

Internal angst and suffering is not an excuse for external behaviors. People always have a choice.

(Unless you attack me or mine, then I have no choice but to kill you.)


48 posted on 11/24/2008 9:34:22 AM PST by Valpal1 (Always be prepared to make that difference.)
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To: Invisigoth

Most often homosexuality is a symptom of personal weakness of character.
Hope this helps.


49 posted on 11/24/2008 9:34:25 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Invisigoth

I don’t care if you are born that way or become that way, it manifests itself in a behavior and all behaviors can be changed.


50 posted on 11/24/2008 9:35:13 AM PST by svcw (Great selection of Christmas gift baskets: http://baskettastic.com/)
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