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Intentionally Default? Maybe. Read On. [Karl Denninger]
Market Ticker ^ | 4/8/2009 | Karl Denninger

Posted on 04/08/2009 8:11:37 AM PDT by perfect_rovian_storm

If you have any qualms about the morality of intentionally defaulting on your mortgage - not because you can't pay, but because the value of your house has declined to less than you owe, listen up:

“I can make the payments. That’s not the issue. It’s a business decision,” Watts said. “I tried to work with the lender. The lender didn’t help. They said, go ahead, do a short sale. It’s strictly business.”

Who is this guy?  He is not Joe. K. Random.

Watts, the chief prognosticator for the Orange County Association of Realtors, once was one of local real estate’s biggest boosters. Where others saw a market slump, Watts kept seeing price gains.

Got it?

Good.

It's strictly business folks.

The banks, Realtors and mortgage brokers didn't pump real estate, stoking the fires of starry-eyed profits, for your benefit.  It was not so your children would have a nice place to grow up.  It was not so you and your wife, husband or significant other would have a great place to live.

Nope.

It was strictly business.

That's right.  Every nickel of profit that those Realtors, Banksters and Brokesters could manage to connive out of your pocketbook, they did.  They issued rosy predictions like this:

Yeah, he apologized, but you lost money.

This is not one random guy either.  Remember these books?

Google him. 

Look, I understand "it's just business." 

I'm a capitalist pig and I'm proud of it.

But back in the day of The Internet, I had plenty of cover to prognosticate 500% annual growth rates for the next 20 years if I wanted to.  Everyone else was.

I refused, because I knew that mathematically such a prognostication was dishonest.

It is rather clear that anyone who bothered to do the math on home price appreciation and compare it against income had to know that too, on a forward basis for any material length of time, was impossible to maintain.

I understand that this realization ultimately included you, the Home Buyer - if you bothered to do the math (and you should have.)

But the Brokester and Bankster made those loans knowing this as well, and they're the subject matter experts, with their HP12Cs and fancy computer programs.  They all had to know, if they bothered to look (and they had a duty to look, at least for the buyers of their "debt instruments") that the loans they were writing and the "affordability products" both weren't affordable and those loans had a high probability of exploding.

It's simply math.

So consider what Mr. Watts did.

Make a business decision, and only a business decision.

Do not allow yourself to be guilted by people like Sheila Bair of the FDIC or others, all of whom in the government also knew the math, into intentionally screwing yourself when in point of fact you should do what makes the best business sense for you and your family.

We cannot, ladies and gentlemen, get to the bottom of this economic morass until the excessive debt is flushed from the economy.  This means that it must be paid down or defaulted.

The market must clear this excessive debt in households, corporations and even government.

All the whining from government about the "horrible" effects of foreclosure on neighboring property (the value decreases) is in fact backward.  In order to return to sustainable home ownership we must get home prices down to 2.5-3x incomes on a median basis.  The sooner we do, the sooner we achieve sustainable home ownership.  True home ownership.

So while it sounds twisted, intentional defaults, where it is a proper business decision on your part and made in consultation with your own experts, help this process along.

The government is heavily invested in seeing the banks get the better end of this situation (of their own making!) even if it impoverishes you in the process.

Only you, in consultation with an attorney and CPA, can make a business decision on whether to attempt to renegotiate and/or walk away - that is, what the best business decision is for you - and only you.

Make that decision not based on the bleating claims of morality among those who either intentionally misled you or sat silently while firms and individuals over whom they had regulatory authority did so, but rather strictly as a business decision.

After all - they both did a few years ago and are again - here and now - today.



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Politics
KEYWORDS: denninger; economy; ticker
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This should be an interesting discussion. Have at it.
1 posted on 04/08/2009 8:11:37 AM PDT by perfect_rovian_storm
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To: Hoosier Catholic Momma; CottonBall; TenthAmendmentChampion; Chickensoup; JDoutrider; ...

I really don’t understand why people are intentionally defaulting on mortgages when they have the ability to pay. The market slump represents a paper loss and that loss is not realized until a sale occurs. As long as I can afford my mortgage payment, then I will continue to honor my committment.

Dave Ramsey Fan Ping List.

If you would like to be added to the “Live like no one else, so that you can LIVE like no one else” list, feel free to Freepmail me.


2 posted on 04/08/2009 8:19:06 AM PDT by CSM (Smokers, the most patriotic of Americans!)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm

Very interesting, especially since we are considering our retirement home...and if we can afford one. We don’t own one at present.


3 posted on 04/08/2009 8:21:02 AM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm

Mike Shedlock, aka “Mish”, has been advocating “walking away” for almost a year already, and for the same reason.


4 posted on 04/08/2009 8:23:16 AM PDT by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: CSM
It's DEPLORABLE that people are walking away from their houses because they owe more than they are worth (at this time)!

When you buy a NEW CAR and drive it off the lot, you are UPSIDE DOWN...do people walk away?? This is a SICKNESS in our society.

5 posted on 04/08/2009 8:23:47 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion....the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm

The article said...


It’s strictly business folks.

The banks, Realtors and mortgage brokers didn’t pump real estate, stoking the fires of starry-eyed profits, for your benefit. It was not so your children would have a nice place to grow up. It was not so you and your wife, husband or significant other would have a great place to live.


Well..., of course it’s “business”... LOL...

What do people *really expect* in a capitalistic society, especially of “businesses”. Did anyone *really* think that it was *ever* because of some of those reasons mentioned...

If so, someone is really, really deluded... :-)


6 posted on 04/08/2009 8:24:39 AM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: perfect_rovian_storm
Bankruptcy Time Bomb In U.S. And UK Explodes
7 posted on 04/08/2009 8:26:00 AM PDT by blam
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To: perfect_rovian_storm
The government is heavily invested in seeing the banks get the better end of this situation

And isn't that why we elect our politicians? [/s]

8 posted on 04/08/2009 8:26:43 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (American Revolution II -- overdue)
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To: Ann Archy

You said — This is a SICKNESS in our society.

Not really...

If one is to consider that a capitalistic society does things “strictly for business” and *only* on the basis of what benefits them personally — then, if one thinks that getting out from under that kind of burden is *beneficial* to them — then it’s *fine* for a capitalistic society...

Remember, “it’s just business”... that’s all.. nothing personal...


9 posted on 04/08/2009 8:27:09 AM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: Ann Archy
It's DEPLORABLE that people are walking away from their houses because they owe more than they are worth (at this time)!

Why? Not that I'm advocating it as you should honor your contracts but consider what EVERY American is being taught with the bailouts and corporate scandals in the last 10 years.

You know what the lesson is? To hell with honor and commitments ... get the money and run.

We shouldn't be surpised when people take it to the personal level.

10 posted on 04/08/2009 8:28:10 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (01-20-2009 : The end of the PAX AMERICANA.)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm
Mortgage Delinquencies Soar...
11 posted on 04/08/2009 8:29:21 AM PDT by blam
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To: CSM

because its a conflict of business and honor

People are bustng their rear ends - some without job security or wage security- to make payments on houses they bought for $500,000 that are now worth $200,000

And paying taxes taxes taxes to subsidize the same bank crooks who ruined the mortgage and real estate markets, and are now giving away loans for a new generation of irresponsible people to buy the house next door for $200,000

“Honor” in our society, when our eyes are opened and we see how we are being manipulated and robbed by crooks at every level...”honor” in dealing with such people is a relativist concept

I can foresee “every man for himself (and his family’s security”) coming into play some day when making decisions about whether my family, bereft of our 201K retirement savings, eats .... or a loan company and local tax collector gets paid


12 posted on 04/08/2009 8:29:33 AM PDT by silverleaf (We live in interesting times: now the entire IRS works for a tax evader)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm

He’s overlooking the tax side of the business as well... Say he walks away from a $500,000 mortgage on a house worth $250,000. The bank forecloses, sells the house for $250,000 and walks. Now the walker owes income tax - payable in the current year - on $250,000.

Meaning you better have $80,000 or more laying around to pay your tax bill on the $250,000 “gift” you got from the bank.

Suddenly it doesn’t look so upside down, does it?


13 posted on 04/08/2009 8:43:31 AM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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To: Ann Archy

“When you buy a NEW CAR and drive it off the lot, you are UPSIDE DOWN...do people walk away??”

Great point!


14 posted on 04/08/2009 8:44:28 AM PDT by CSM (Smokers, the most patriotic of Americans!)
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To: perfect_rovian_storm
Financial Meltdown. NOT Crisis. With Love, From Argentina
15 posted on 04/08/2009 8:47:33 AM PDT by blam
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To: silverleaf

“when our eyes are opened and we see how we are being manipulated and robbed by crooks at every level..”

The decline in my home value is not realized until a sale occurs. By “walking away” the robbery becomes a reality. I prefer to maintain control of my own affairs and not give the bankers more power than they already have.

“...”honor” in dealing with such people is a relativist concept”

Relativism is not a very conservative concept.

“I can foresee “every man for himself (and his family’s security”) coming into play some day when making decisions about whether my family, bereft of our 201K retirement savings, eats .... or a loan company and local tax collector gets paid”

That is not what this author is discussing. The choice between food and the mortgage is real for many folks and their walking away from the mortgage is their only choice. This author is walking away from the mortgage when that choice is not even in play.


16 posted on 04/08/2009 8:48:19 AM PDT by CSM (Smokers, the most patriotic of Americans!)
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To: Centurion2000; Ann Archy

I’m with you, Centurion. From a “business morality” standpoint, yes, it’s also deplorable. I don’t consider this (probably undecidable) issue a moral absolute though.

There was of course a time when owning a home was the cat’s meow, gateway to prosperity; etc; etc; At the present time, there are masses of folks who are 30-60% underwater and will be making payments on a principal balance essentially double those of a potential bottom-fishing new neighbor. Meanwhile, the responsible parties will be paying heightened taxes at nosebleed levels....mostly for the bailout of bankers foreign and domestic....and, if housing has bottomed right here and now (which I do not agree with but as a matter of discussion) then at 3-4-5% appreciation, a 50% underwater owner will very likely NEVER see breakeven. Morality is morality but self-enslavement isn’t attractive for an ideal that’s been seriously shot down.

Owning a home as cat’s meow is IMO equivalently an emotional state of mind as walking away is deplorable.

All this article advocates is treating the dilemma as a business decision. After all: If you’ve bought the home as a place to house your family, then it doesn’t do much good for that same family for you as breadwinner to beat your brains out, enslaving yourself for the next 27 years.


17 posted on 04/08/2009 8:49:42 AM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (Mr. Bernanke, have you started working on your book about the second GREATER depression?")
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To: PugetSoundSoldier
Say he walks away from a $500,000 mortgage on a house worth $250,000. The bank forecloses, sells the house for $250,000 and walks. Now the walker owes income tax - payable in the current year - on $250,000. Meaning you better have $80,000 or more laying around to pay your tax bill on the $250,000 “gift” you got from the bank.

THIS.

Imputed income. A legal fiction created by the government to grab more of your money, making it impossible to viably resolve debt problems.

18 posted on 04/08/2009 8:53:26 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (John Galt was exiled.)
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To: Attention Surplus Disorder
For YEARS and YEARS, Californians dealt with upside down mortgages every few years.

We had a house in Chino Hills....went way up, then down a little, then we sold it and next year price was WAY below what we sold it for, then over the years it went up and down and was up as much as $500,000 MORE than we paid for it and $50,000.00 LESS than we paid for it!

I DOUBT if any owner walked away....Calif. was always like this. It;s DISGUSTING that people walk away when they can pay!!! DISGUSTING!

19 posted on 04/08/2009 8:54:37 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion....the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: CSM

It’s not really a ‘robbery’ to walk away. The remedy for the mortgage not being paid is written into the mortgage. If you don’t pay, they get the house. If the bank wasn’t satisfied with this remedy, they shouldn’t have written the loan that way. Remember, they are the ones who wrote it.

It wouldn’t be something I’d want to consider, but then again, I didn’t consider getting into one of these silly situations in the first place. But if I had, knowing that the banks are getting bailouts with my tax dollars, why not let them deal with the albatross of the rapidly devaluing house around their neck instead of me? Meanwhile, I put my money away, downsize, and rent somewhere.


20 posted on 04/08/2009 8:55:23 AM PDT by perfect_rovian_storm (We are at an awkward stage: too late to fix things from within and too early to shoot the bastards.)
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