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What Does Ezekiel Emanuel Really Believe About Rationing? Age, Maybe. Quality of Life, Yes
First Things/Secondhand Smoke ^ | 7/30/09 | Wesley J. Smith

Posted on 08/01/2009 9:17:00 AM PDT by wagglebee

I have been doing a little reading about Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the head bioethicist at the NIH and brother of the president’s chief of staff.  He is a supporter of health care rationing, which is relevant to the current health care debate.  In a Lancet article earlier this year, he suggested that age be a proper method of allocating scarce resources, and indeed, stated that age based allocation is not invidious discrimination.  From his piece:

Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years. Treating 65-year olds differently because of stereotypes or falsehoods would be ageist; treating them differently because they have already had more life-years is not.

He seems to be saying, be ageist, just call it something different.

Still, as I read the article closely, it was not about health care rationing in the general sense, but rather, concerned situations of extreme resource scarcity. Thus, while I think it is fair to say that Emmanuel is clearly laying the intellectual groundwork for an age-based rationing regimen, he doesn’t take the final step, writing:

Accepting the complete lives system for health care as a whole would be premature. We must first reduce waste and increase spending.

Some might say that is just a hedge to avoid the heat.  And indeed, bioethicists often promote radical ideas they advocate generally by using extreme situation hypotheticals to make their intellectual points, thereby allowing them a path of retreat if the blowback becomes withering.  Still, unlike some others who have commented about this piece in the current health care reform debate, I don’t think he explicitly advocated a system of health care rationing now based on age, at least not in this particular article.

The same can’t be said of an article he wrote in the Hastings Center Report, in which he explicitly advocates rationing based on what appears to be a quality of life measurement.  From the piece:

This civic republican or deliberative democratic conception of the good provides both procedural and substantive insights for developing a just allocation of health care resources. Procedurally, it suggests the need for public forums to deliberate about which health services should be considered basic and should be socially guaranteed. Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity-those that ensure healthy future generations, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations-are to be socially guaranteed as basic. Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.

A lot of people are frightened that someone who thinks like Emanuel is at the center of an administration seeking to remake the entire health care system.  Having read these two articles, I think there is very real cause for concern.



TOPICS: Government; Health/Medicine; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: agenda; bho44; bhohealthcare; euthanasia; ezekielemanuel; moralabsolutes; prolife; utilitarians
A lot of people are frightened that someone who thinks like Emanuel is at the center of an administration seeking to remake the entire health care system. Having read these two articles, I think there is very real cause for concern.

When you look at how much the left has actually admitted it becomes terrifying to contemplate what they are hiding.

1 posted on 08/01/2009 9:17:01 AM PDT by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; Salvation; 8mmMauser

Pro-Life Ping


2 posted on 08/01/2009 9:17:30 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 185JHP; 230FMJ; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or DirtyHarryY2K to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


3 posted on 08/01/2009 9:18:32 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 444Flyer

bookmark


4 posted on 08/01/2009 9:18:40 AM PDT by 444Flyer (The Lord is a warrior, the Lord is His name.-Exodus 15:3)
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To: wagglebee

Notice that the standard is written fuzzily so that old people who are still “valuable” will still get health care. I assume this means govt officials and tenured professors and the like.


5 posted on 08/01/2009 9:20:31 AM PDT by Seruzawa (Obamalama lied, the republic died.)
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To: wagglebee

He sounds like Doctor Josef Mengle. You know certain elderly groups will get exemptions - i.e. my guess is elderly whites health care will be the first to get cut off.

The seniors who voted for Obama are fools. The Emanuel family is evil.


6 posted on 08/01/2009 9:20:50 AM PDT by Frantzie (Lou Dobbs - American Hero! Bill O'Reilly = Liar)
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To: wagglebee

Nifty solution to the social security issue. Now the government can keep that money instead of having to pay it out to seniors who reach retirement age since everyone will be killed off at the cutoff.


7 posted on 08/01/2009 9:21:08 AM PDT by Boardwalk
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To: Seruzawa

Certain groups - they will have access to voting records and believe me there will be racial profiling too.


8 posted on 08/01/2009 9:21:46 AM PDT by Frantzie (Lou Dobbs - American Hero! Bill O'Reilly = Liar)
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To: wagglebee

Here we go again....”Lancet article.”

Lancet = fail, on varying methodology and political bias levels.


9 posted on 08/01/2009 9:21:51 AM PDT by cranked
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To: Boardwalk

Well American seniors are selfish and illegal aliens and recent third world immigrants need that social security, medicare and the seniors life savings.

Don’t think for a minute that Obama will not go after seniors life savings. Expect a doubling of the estate tax.

Baby boomers and seniors can forget about a comfortable retirement. Under the new Animal Farm we will work 50 years, have everything we own taken away and will be told it is time to die. The elites will party while we toil.


10 posted on 08/01/2009 9:24:27 AM PDT by Frantzie (Lou Dobbs - American Hero! Bill O'Reilly = Liar)
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To: wagglebee
Should Dr. Emanuel ever desire euthanasia, I will be glad to assist him.
11 posted on 08/01/2009 9:25:40 AM PDT by davisfh ( Islam is a very serious mental illness)
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To: wagglebee
A lot of people are frightened that someone who thinks like Emanuel is at the center of an administration seeking to remake the entire health care system. Having read these two articles, I think there is very real cause for concern.

Adolf Hitler wrote all of his plans
in Mein Kampf in 1925.

He came to power in 1933.

Most people did not understand until 1936
that he really meant what he wrote.

We are being warned about BHO's associates.

It may take three years for all to understand
what is planned for the weak, the old and the infirmed.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
12 posted on 08/01/2009 9:28:53 AM PDT by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: wagglebee
I guess we've become so inured to obvious conflicts of interest that this doesn't stick out like the sore thumb it is. The head ethicist at NIH is the brother of the President's chief of staff? Oh the head ethicist doesn't have to be ethical himself.
13 posted on 08/01/2009 9:30:36 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: wagglebee; All

“When you look at how much the left has actually admitted it becomes terrifying to contemplate what they are hiding.” - wagglebee

“Everything about socialism is sham and affectation” - Frederic Bastiat, “Economic Harmonies” 23.11 Evil

Thanks to all posters.


14 posted on 08/01/2009 9:36:21 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: Seruzawa

I hate everything the Social Utopians stand for.

I think that the code is that one receives healthcare IF and ONLY IF they don’t retire.

So, if any of you want healthcare past 65, you had better forget your retirement plans.

Watch out! Since you don’t retire, the government will eventually transfer your 401Ks and related plans to government health care plans.

All so illegal immigrants and union workers get healthcare.

Hey union members. Figured out yet that you can never retire? As if you haven’t already retired already.


15 posted on 08/01/2009 9:37:13 AM PDT by whitedog57
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To: cranked

Wesley Smith was QUOTING, Emanuel’s article in “Lancet”.


16 posted on 08/01/2009 9:38:01 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

bookmark


17 posted on 08/01/2009 9:39:27 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Uri’el-2012

This person suffering from hereditary defects
costs the people 60,000 Reichmarks during his lifetime.
People, that is your money. Read ‘New People’.

18 posted on 08/01/2009 9:40:11 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Yes, that is exactly what I see coming.

These people are empty vessels for the Evil One.

Acorn will become the new "Brown Shirts"

Then they will come for those who believe in the Jewish Messiah.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

19 posted on 08/01/2009 9:52:27 AM PDT by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Uri’el-2012

I fear you are correct. We are about to see Nazism all over again and this time there will not be a superpower willing to step in the way America and England did seven decades ago.


20 posted on 08/01/2009 10:00:48 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed.

I suppose life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are likewise not basic in the mind of this heartless RAT, but also subject to age rationing?

21 posted on 08/01/2009 10:05:01 AM PDT by freespirited (The Surgeon General has determined that Harry and Louise are dangerous to your health.)
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To: wagglebee
I fear you are correct. We are about to see Nazism all over again and this time there will not be a superpower willing to step in the way America and England did seven decades ago.

This time World Socialism will support our National Socialism.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
22 posted on 08/01/2009 10:17:53 AM PDT by Uriel-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: wagglebee

“Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years. Treating 65-year olds differently because of stereotypes or falsehoods would be ageist; treating them differently because they have already had more life-years is not.”

In Rush’s words, GOBBLEDY GOOK!

New age, feelgood babble but in reality he says nothing except kill the oldies!


23 posted on 08/01/2009 10:21:30 AM PDT by charmedone (There is a right to health care but no right to be born?)
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To: wagglebee

POPULATION CONTROL

The One is on record saying babies born alive from botched abortions should not be given medical treatment. And now that seniors should not be given medical treatment and moved into hospices after mandatory "End of Life" counseling.
"C'mon, buddy, we can't afford this. Time for you to go..."

Vaccine May Be More Dangerous Than Swine Flu

Fast-tracked Swine Flu Vaccine under Fire:Toxic adjuvants in flu vaccines

24 posted on 08/01/2009 10:47:29 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Frantzie

I don’t know if the Emmanuels’ parents are still alive but if they are what must they think of their children? Were they raised this way? This guy Ezekiel is waaay out in left field.


25 posted on 08/01/2009 10:47:59 AM PDT by MissDairyGoodnessVT ("Economy is the method by which we prepare today to afford the improvements of tomorrow"C.Coolidge)
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To: wagglebee
Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed.

When the government can decide who has a right to life then you have NO rights that the government can't take away. Only loyal party members are participating citizens.

26 posted on 08/01/2009 11:18:45 AM PDT by eggman (Obama's Spread the Wealth will work just as well as Spread the Liabilities (sub-prime mortgages))
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To: wagglebee; All

Method: “developing a just allocation of ...resources.”

Tactic: “public forums.”

Goals:

“1) the continuation of the polity-those that ensure healthy future generations
2) ensure development of practical reasoning skills
3) full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations”

Objective: “socially guaranteed.”


27 posted on 08/01/2009 12:15:16 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Fili et Spiritus Sancti.)
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To: Boardwalk

Exactly.


28 posted on 08/01/2009 12:15:54 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Fili et Spiritus Sancti.)
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To: eggman

“Only loyal party members” exist.

All others do or will not.

Membership is limited.


29 posted on 08/01/2009 12:20:58 PM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Fili et Spiritus Sancti.)
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To: wagglebee; All; AAABEST; AdamSelene235; AnnaZ; Askel5; backhoe; BlackElk; Brian Allen; ...
Death Cultivation ping listees, I could really use some help from you. Even I tire of posting these things, so I imagine some of you may also have long ago tired of my alerts. Then think of how many in my extended family react. So I need some fresh viewpoints.

I keep getting this comment from a sister.

Also, the president has repeated numerously that if you already have health insurance that you are happy with you do not have to take this. I like the option that if I lose a job or quit I can take this health insurance rather than a costly COBRA.
Please provide me with several of the best answers to this. Links, both factual and well worded opinions, supporting each answer would also be good.

Help me as this sister is surrounded by liberals. I don't want her turning against me. I have difficulty keeping my own arguments clear in any verbal instruction without good instructions because (as anyone who knows me) I so easily can be sent off chasing tangents.

Thanks.

Av

30 posted on 08/01/2009 12:39:24 PM PDT by Avoiding_Sulla (Yesterday's Left = today's status quo. Thus "CONSERVATIVE": a conflicted label for battling tyranny.)
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To: wagglebee

So, Emanuel wants to be the “decider”. Piss on him. He needs to be stood against the wall.


31 posted on 08/01/2009 2:11:48 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: All
Pinged from Terri Dailies


32 posted on 08/02/2009 12:50:38 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Avoiding_Sulla

If your sister gets insurance from her employer- she doesn’t get to decide to keep it if the employer switches to the government option. Are employers going to keep paying $800/month/employee, when the government option is “free” ?


33 posted on 08/02/2009 3:43:53 PM PDT by Jaxmum
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To: Seruzawa

“Notice that the standard is written fuzzily so that old people who are still “valuable” will still get health care. I assume this means govt officials and tenured professors and the like.”

Bingo!


34 posted on 08/09/2009 3:13:34 PM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: wagglebee

Evidently not enough reading has been done. I’ve read the articles (both referred to here) and this is total BS. I urge people to read the good doctor’s articles themselves.

Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel is a great an compassionate man. His Lancet article (which is a great read BTW) is about how one should allocate care in terrible situations when you cannot save everyone. The quote about dementia in the other article, crucially misses the whole point by ignoring the next few lines in the actual article. When he’s talking about “basic” care he’s referring to specific list of things which should be guaranteed to a normal patient capable of benefiting from them, such as say an Autistic child being guarantied educational therapy which would not benefit an someone suffering from dementia. In the later case another system would need to be in place to address effectively the needs of such an individual.


35 posted on 08/13/2009 11:16:39 PM PDT by Pelayo
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To: Pelayo; Coleus; narses; Salvation; cpforlife.org; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; Sun; Lesforlife; ...
Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel is a great an compassionate man. His Lancet article (which is a great read BTW) is about how one should allocate care in terrible situations when you cannot save everyone.

He is a modern-day Dr. Mengele and it now appears that YOU are a troll.

This is the United States of America, we are not some putrid third-world cesspool despite Zero's attempts to turn us into one, we DO HAVE the resources to treat everyone and we ALWAYS HAVE.

The moment we accept a plan that allows for rationing, the more things will be rationed. That is how fascism works and you are either too naive to see it or you are an active advocate of it.

36 posted on 08/14/2009 4:42:15 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

BUMP


37 posted on 08/14/2009 4:45:58 AM PDT by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: Pelayo
His Lancet article (which is a great read BTW) is about how one should allocate care in terrible situations when you cannot save everyone.

Perhaps so.

I've got just such a "terrible" situation for you: the govt takes over health care and starts cutting costs. From the house bill:

The Secretary shall establish within the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality a Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research ...to conduct, support, and synthesize research... with respect to the outcomes, effectiveness, and appropriateness of health care services and procedures in order to identify the manner in which diseases, disorders, and other health conditions can most effectively and appropriately be prevented, diagnosed, treated, and managed clinically.

Among the specialties on this center are

III) Bioethics.
IV) Decision sciences.
V) Health disparities.
VI) Economics.

What part of this unconstitutional power grab do you not understand? A federal committee of Decision Scientists and Economists are going to decide who gets care (20-somethiing) and who gets left outside to die (infants, aged, etc)

38 posted on 08/14/2009 4:57:34 AM PDT by palmer (Cooperating with Obama = helping him extend the depression and implement socialism.)
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To: Pelayo; wagglebee
I urge people to read the good doctor’s articles themselves.

Are you sure that's what you meant to say? "The Good Doctor" is one of Mengele's nicknames. How would reading his articles convince us of Emanuel's compassion?

39 posted on 08/14/2009 5:58:23 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Damn the trolls (even those within our ranks). Full speed ahead. ~ Þ)
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To: wagglebee

They’re just re-cycling Hitler and “Duty to Die” Dick Lamm!


40 posted on 08/14/2009 6:29:33 AM PDT by Lesforlife
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To: Lesforlife; BykrBayb

If killing people is so “compassionate” why is it that the culture of death always starts by killing those they have the most contempt for?


41 posted on 08/14/2009 6:32:48 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: BykrBayb

42 posted on 08/14/2009 6:33:18 AM PDT by Lesforlife
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To: wagglebee

EZEKIEL EMANUEL AND THE OBAMA CARE FINAL SOLUTION

(Must Read - Shocking, cited quotes by Emanuel)


OBAMA CARE BY THE NUMBERS


OBAMA'S BRIDGE TOO FAR


THE STORM UNLEASHED ON AMERICA

A PETITION ON FACEBOOK FOR CONSTITUTIONAL RESTORATION

43 posted on 08/14/2009 8:32:33 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: wagglebee
Thanks for the post.

Do you know if this is the guy that said that a fetus should be watched for 33 months to see if it will be a contributing member of society, and if not it should be "aborted" up until that age?

Thanks

Here's some more stuff about this guy

Dr. Ezekiel J. Emanuel. Chicago Mob enforcer and Obama "hit" man Rahm Emanuel's brother.

Here is some information about him.


Dr. Ezekiel J. Emanuel is as scary as his younger brother, Rahm. Actually, he may be scarier.

R. Emmett Tyrrell Jr., the Washington Times, writes that you better get sick now or you may be sorry.

If you have any sense that you may be getting sick in the years ahead, I suggest you get sick immediately. If you will need of surgery or any medical procedure, do it now! If not immediately, be certain that you hand yourself over to the health care professionals before Oct. 15. That is the date on which President Obama hopes to sign his health care bill once it has gone through the congressional baloney grinder.

At the heart of Mr. Obama's plan is his stated goal to cut medical costs. That might sound good to you, but it means cutting services, nurses, technicians, medical tests and, most prominently, the use of expensive technology. The president's top medical advisers are quite frank about this.

Dr. Ezekiel J. Emanuel, brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and a health-policy adviser in the Office of Management and Budget, has chided Americans for the expense of their "being enamored with technology." Dr. David Blumenthal, another key Obama adviser, charges medical innovations as being responsible for fully two-thirds of the annual increase in health care spending. Their solution is to limit expensive innovations. A 2008 Congressional Budget Office report agrees with their cost analysis but concludes happily that such innovations "permit the treatment of previously untreatable conditions." As I shall show, there are more humane ways to cut health care costs.

Also at the heart of Mr. Obama's plan is the restriction of services for older people, people 65 and older who, by vir
...

Read the entire post here.

The following has been composed by Ezekiel 'Dr Death' Emanuel -- a special adviser to Budget Director Peter Orszag and older brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel -- heads up the White House's health care reform efforts. Obama has appointed Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel to a top-level position as one of his top-level advisors, and Czars on health care reform.

 

*Special Note: the term allocation refers to rationing.

 

 

"PRINCIPLES USED FOR ALLOCATING SCARCE MEDICAL INTERVENTION"

 

Coauthored by Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel

 

Allocation of medical interventions is a persistent ethical challenge. We evaluate eight simple allocation principles that can be classified into four categories: treating people equally, favouring the worst-off, maximising total benefits, and promoting and rewarding social usefulness. No single principle is sufficient to incorporate all morally relevant considerations and therefore individual principles must be combined into multiprinciple allocation systems. We evaluate three systems: the United Network for Organ Sharing points systems, quality-adjusted life-years, and disability-adjusted life-years. We recommend an alternative system—the complete lives system—which prioritises younger people who have not yet lived a complete life, and also incorporates prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value principles.

 

Nazi Genocidal Intent of Obama's Proposed Healthcare Reforms Exposed; Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel (Rahm's brother) Escapes when Confronted


Panelists warn of the revival of eugenics under Obamas modern healthcare through the denial of care to millions of elderly, terminally-ill, and poor people, who would be judged not fit to live, just as in Nazi Germany. This would save, as President Obama says, $2-3 million, by taking lives not worthy to be lived.
Dr. Ezekiel Emmanuel, health policy advisor to President Obama and leader of a propaganda movement for euthanasia headquarted at The Hastings Center,

believes in witholding medical care from the elderly for the greater good.


Related Stories: Obama's Nazi Doctors and Their 'Reforms'

44 posted on 08/14/2009 11:52:59 AM PDT by Syncro
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To: Syncro
Do you know if this is the guy that said that a fetus should be watched for 33 months to see if it will be a contributing member of society, and if not it should be "aborted" up until that age?

I believe that is a different Mengele-in-training that Zero has named Führer czar of the Final Solution Obamacare.

45 posted on 08/14/2009 12:14:36 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Thanks

I found out it is from Obama's Science Czar John Holdren, author of a book called Ecoscience quite a while ago.

I won't clutter up this thread about him, but you can find out a little about him at This Link if you wanna.

46 posted on 08/14/2009 1:28:58 PM PDT by Syncro
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To: Syncro
I knew who he was, I just can't keep all of the names straight. Every time you turn around Zero is appointing another new Führer czar.
47 posted on 08/14/2009 1:45:09 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
LOL me neither

I just wanted to find out more about that baby murdering socialist fascist Marxist basta...oops basta...oops can't help myself!

Heh...

48 posted on 08/14/2009 1:53:47 PM PDT by Syncro
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To: Syncro

Any person who will endorse the wanton slaughter of babies is not only evil, they are also devoid of any type of conscience and therefore dangerous. That means they need to be DEFEATED. I don’t know what “meaningful dialog” means, but unless they are prepare to stop killing babies I’m not interested.


49 posted on 08/14/2009 1:58:07 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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