Posted on 09/06/2009 3:26:34 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
QUESTION: What mistakes do you think most people make preparing for what you and your countrymen have gone through?
I wouldn’t call them “mistakes”, I don’t hold the SHTF Bible so all I can give is my humble advice which may be correct or not, so all I can tell you is “ I wouldn’t do that if I were you”, and depending on how sure I am , add a smartass grin smiley.
There’s simply some preparations that make little sense if you think about it, others that I’ve seen that just wouldn’t work, in spite of all the speculations.
a) Maybe the one that rubs me the wrong way the most concerns retreats. It’s also something many survivalists consider the summit of their preparations. A self sufficient fortification-ranch, with the nearest neighbor several miles away.
Isolated farms or retreats are targeted and are often victims of robbery and in some cases extremely violent home invasions. You may have 6-10 able men you are counting on to defend it when TSHTF… “when TSHTF” …so they aren’t there right now? Then you don’t have them, nor will you have them when you need them, most likely. The isolation works to the attackers favor, who often take their time having their way with everything and everyone inside the house.
The “away from everything” theory just doesn’t work when taken to the field. Happens here and same happens in Africa where ranchers and farmers have to fight rebels, rogues or whatever they are calling them these days.
They’ll find you, they’ll know about you one way or the other. You cant hide simply by living a gas tank away from the city. If there’s a road that reaches your place, you are fair game, doesn’t matter if it’s a dirt road in poor condition. You get there with a car/truck? So can bad guys.
You are obviously safer from small time robberies or pickpocketers and snatchers, but you are more vulnerable to the worst kind of criminals. Not that living in a city or suburbs makes it MUCH safer, but I’d rather live here where I live now than in a farm house any day of the week. People can somehow organize to hire security, talk to the police. Yes, most people border idiotic and are pretty clueless, but it’s better than being alone with no chance of even trying to convince people.
I’m not talking about living in a large city being the best option, I’m talking about living in a small town or community, looking for safety in numbers but avoiding the problems of a metropolis.
I definitely would choose a house in a small town or subdivision near a city, rather than a far away retreat. Rather than looking for the ultimate self reliance retreat in the middle of nowhere, look for a subdivision where you have enough land, where you can keep a small orchard and some small critters if you want, a place with a basement where you can build a NBC shelter as time and money allows. That’s what I’d look forward to if living in US.
b) The barter items thing is also pretty strange. I don’t see how it could possibly be a smart idea to buy goods to sell or trade after a crisis, surely not in the quantities suggested by some people. Beats me, are they going to set up a shop in their garages and sell everything? Would you buy food an other supplies from a guy that sells it with no possible way of verifying the conditions under which the food was kept? How much of a profit could you possibly make , comparing to having saved that same amount of money in gold, for example? I don’t understand it and I don’t know of anyone that made a profit by doing this. Yet, people stock up on TP and many other cheap, easily obtainable items thinking that it will be “worth it’s weight in gold” after the crisis. Newsflash: if it’s cheap and easy to produce, it will keep being that way AFTER tshtf.
Some guys advice to “invest” in such goods, tools, food and supplies for after TSHTF. No, no , no. 200 or 500 bucks worth of tools rusting away in the shed is not an investment. Its’ 200 bucks worth of tools for which you don’t have any use. That’s not an investment. An investment generates money, while products rotting away in some basement does nothing for you.
c) Forgetting about their financial security. I’d worry about REAL investments. Buying real estate that will provide me with a steady income on the longer run, an investment portfolio divided in a couple of reliable ( or as reliable as any organization can be) that will slowly grow, most of it set on minimum and medium risk investments, and not falling for the promises of high risk ones.
Money is so important, I can't begin to explain it. When prices skyrocket beyond the limits of superinflation, money does not turn into toilet paper as many survival experts predict, it become cherished, more valuable to you than ever. You have to turn yourself into a discriminating shopper, always looking for the best possible price, sometimes shopping in different branches of supermarkets so as to find the better deals and avoid those “hot” items grocery chains slip without you even noticing.
My father is visiting right now, handling business, and one thing he told me when I asked how did he see things going on here, he used the words “cheapskate” and “miserly”.
He said something like“ People count coins over and over, by the cent, and spend maybe 10 minutes thinking about spending every cent. They also look kind of shabby, untidy, I can’t explain it. Even the guys running around downtown with suits look bad”
I explained that his overall perception was indeed correct, mostly because the average person here uses clothes until they wear out, there’s not that much money left for looks, not getting haircuts as often as they should, shaving.
Yes, the fall on the purchasing power of people did affect the average person (at least most of them if not all) and you can see it on the streets.
d) Not all places are equal in terms of crime, but if something like this happens in US, I’d worry about being armed at all times, and learning how to use it to defend myself.
Again, not talking about waiting for the end of the world to bug in and pull the shotgun out of the firing ports, just go on with your life but do so armed.
Most people here don’t see things this way. The anti gun campaign is very strong here, and the majority of “sheep” see guns as evil objects, even though rape, crime and violence is smeared on their face every day. What can I say, most people are pretty stupid.
Those of us who go armed in this country are a reduced minority. After a few words, we recognize each other at the range or at gunshops with a knowing nod, knowing that most people, even among shooters , don’t share our opinions.
Even among “gun people” we have our important share of “Zumbos”, elitist hunters who think that firearms are hunting tools and shouldn’t be used by the lesser “civilians” for self defense.
e)Not trying to bore anyone to death here or anything, but going back to the issue of money. It’s so important to be financially set. Rather than spending tons of money on junk you wont ever use invest it smartly. Rich, unprepared people will suffer after TSHF… only in your wildest dreams. Money buys everything, including expensive food, medical care, security and relocation if needed.
When the economy collapses a big chunk of what used to be middle class (50% as minimum, more for sure) ends up being poor. It doesn’t matter how much guns you have, doesn’t matter if you can start a fire with a couple popsicles sticks or build an atomic bomb with a Snickers bar and a paper clip. Skills are of course important but you finances affect everything.
If you are middle class do everything you can to improve, climb way up the ladder. No I’m not talking about making more money than Bill Gates, I’m just talking about something every determined middle class person can achieve , no need to be a freaking financial genius. Make sure you climb your way up to the upper middle class, because once the pyramid starts sinking you don’t want to be below the 50%.
If you are really serious about financial security, diversify your real estate and other investments in different countries. My father did this and it made all the difference in the world. The man is my hero.
When you see serious trouble in the horizon and survivalists are thinking about bunkering in their cabins, you simply go on vacations to check out that little apartment or house you bought in Costa Rica for a bunch of pocket change a month. If Zombies take over or China invades, you can look for a job there, or live like a king thanks to the income you receive from that other apartment you have in France, a place in a small town near a major University, which you rent to students each year. 600 Euros a month will allow you to live comfortably in Costa Rica, and most countries in South America. And the best part of all this? If nothing EVER happens you just have a few properties here and there that are constantly generating money for you, in case you want to retire early or if you ever have a health problem or any other issue that puts you out of the job market. Again, a couple of properties here and there isn't such a big deal, most people can achieve that with a bit of effort, it's just a matter of priorities.
f)The lack of reality based preparations. Some people focus on preparing for something that will never happen, preparing for getting up one day and walking into Mad Max’s world. This is of course, not a smart idea. Not only are you forgetting about the other, more likely possibilities, but you also ignore that you’ll have to go through them before it reaches to a road warrior point, if it ever gets to that.
People that have thousands and thousands of dollars in tools, equipment, and maybe spent hundreds of thousands more building the ultimate retreat, but don’t have a penny invested anywhere. When asked they‘ll say that it will all be worth nothing when TSHTF.
Hopefully, this person will have several years worth of food along with all the other stuff he’ll rarely get to use, so at least he wont starve to death. But is eating all you aspire for in live? Not to mention what would happen if he got sick/robbed/place burns to the ground/hurricane/flood destroys it and suddenly needs the money he said he would never need.
Prepare for a broad spectrum of possibilities. So you’ll have your food and supplies for short and medium periods of time where supermarkets may be closed due to looting, riots, lack of supply , etc and you have others plans in case things get worse or you are forced to get out of there.
Something like what happened here happening in US? Don’t go nuts, shooting the neighbor’s kid for crossing over to your yard to pick up his frizbee. Just adjust to the situation.
Once the first few weeks are over and people start calming down, just be more careful out there, don’t throw away money on stuff you don’t need and try to keep a generally low profile. It’s also important to do well at work, because people get fired like crazy during those times, companies trying to reduce expenses or not needing you any more for lack of production.
During these times is when your investments kick in. Not only do you have a place to exile to if things don’t go back to normal or they don’t fit what you expect in life anymore, you also have a form of income that is out of the circle of your local economy. Let’s say the dollar looses ½ it’s value, you still have your apartment in France or wherever the heck you want to invest, pumping in Euros that are now much more valuable, probably compensating for the local inflation, so whether you decide to leave or stay, you have the means to go either way.
As far as the first one is concerned, I suspect I’m better off in my tiny close knit town than off somewhere by myself. Seems to me that I’m better off with 100 people with a broad skill set than simply knowing how to keep myself warm, dry and fed.
Many of the people in my little town are elderly and would have a rough time but any one of them has more value than any number of teenagers. The teenagers would have value as strong backs but today’s teenagers would have a rough go for a while.
The core strategy seems to be (a) cash and (b) one or more houses abroad.
Houses are cheap in many foreign countries. I have one so far and will buy another next year - probably in a different country.
The stockpiling and hoarding “preparedness” idea has never appealed.
I’ve read the Argentina perspective before, and while there are a number of valid points, the USA is not Argentina. If we have a societal collapse, it will most likely be due to a civil war of sorts, in which case the attempts to hold on to a normal life while the society collapses would be silly here. The Argentina scenario seems to be dependent on so many of the citizens simply trying to survive with no greater purpose in mind, whereas a civil war here would be for a purpose. That is not to say that there won’t be danger of thieves and murderers galore, but that the plan to accept a certain level of societal collapse while trying to hold on to as much of the normal life as possible would require a different attitude and worldview than most Americans have. For example, would the average Argentinian think his Constitution was worth dying for? Would he think that the idea of liberty was worth dying for? Many, many Americans would, which is why they would not accept a semi-collapse while trying to conduct business as usual. I think we’d either go all out, or we wouldn’t go at all.
Owning real estate means you have to manage it. You can manage a rental in France from Costa Rica- not without paid help to get the rent and to get it to you. You cannot rely on such help in hard times. That part is quite unrealistic. Food stockup makes sense. About which see the “Mormon one year plan” etc.
While I don’t agree with all of it, there’s some very sound advice here.
For the most part it sounds more sensible than much of the stuff I’ve read about when TSHF... :-)
And yeah, these “isolated compounds” are kinda stupid ideas...
However, I’m not shopping around for property in France or Costa Rica... LOL...
unfortunately, i see no limits to the potential $$$grab from the kenyan...
i believe i'll continue in a small community that has ag & wildlife base, and 'stay small' for the time being...squirrelin away a little bit of 'extra' necessities as life permits...
Another thing to consider is that one of the executive orders that dear old GW signed allowed for the seizure of all food stocks, fuel, firearms, and vehicles in the event of Martial Law being declared. Once that happens, you had better be where you were going because there will be no travel allowed. I think that a good rule would be to pack a few essentials in an A.L.I.C.E. pack, have one rifle with a couple of hundred rounds of ammo (no matter how many you've stashed), a good pair of boots and woods basics, and a good SW emergency radio ready to roll on 20 minutes notice. Scout the area that you will flee to and make certain that you can navigate the route in the dark. Leave no notes, maps, scribbles, etc. and throw the cellphone in the trash after you've disconnected the battery.
One thought I’ve had about setting up a rural homestead is that the government can declare it a wetlands or whatever they want, and take it away. If we do end up with a totalitarian government, an obvious hotbed of revolt is going to be people living out in the sticks, and I’d look for that type of government to find a way of cracking down on them. Or maybe I’m just being paranoid.
Fortifying anything with the idea of defending against a siege is suicidal.
How did you go about buying property in another country? I would have no idea how to do that.
I agree that the bug-out location idea is pretty impractical. And if you’re talking about a person of limited means, as most of us are, seems to me it’s far better to stock up so that you can hunker down where you are.
But investments? WTF? You’re liable to get robbed or killed if you go to the supermarket, much less an ATM or bank!
And I don’t necessarily agree with him summarily dismissing stocking up on TP or whatever. There was a show on a while back called “The New Pioneers” or something like that, a reality show where these folks tried to make it as ranchers in the old west.
Economy is economy. And it reached a natural level.
Food became the single most important commodity. Gear for farming and animal tendering came next.
The third most valuable, and what did actually become worth it’s weight in gold, was the toiletries and such. And being in supermarket retail many years ago, I can tell you the biggest profit supermarkets make isn’t on the steaks or eggs.
It’s on the shampoo and stuff like that.
Spend some time there (wherever). Ask around.
There’s no substitute.
Google the real estate rules/property ownership laws of your intended foreign land. Then go visit for a vacation to:
1. Make sure you like the place/could live there
2. Find a real estate agent and start talking
I’ve got property overseas in 3 different countries; it’s cheap, easy to buy, and if needed, I could live in all 3 countries without worry.
In many places overseas you can buy a smaller 600-700 square foot condo/apartment for less than $20,000. That’s in a nicely sized city, like Chaiyaphum in Thailand, Suzhou in China, or Lido in the Philippines.
Why on earth would any conservative plan on “Surviving” rather than being an integral part of reclaiming the country through force of arms?
The foundation of this country is not now and never has been the Constitution. That is merely a blueprint for governance.
The foundation is the Declaration of Independence.
Plan on following the example of those who wrote it if TSHTF.
Nice if you can do it, but that’s just a twist on the “bug out location” scenario.
Remember how folks screamed (and are still) at the government about Katrina?
Gov ain’t gonna make that mistake again. If the SHTF, you can expect the obvious, most apparent government reactions that will play on the evening news to make it look like they’re doing something and in control.
That means:
some form of martial law, including:
rationing
travel restrictions
some kind of policy/workforce to deal with shut-ins and elderly
possible energy policies - very limited gas availability, conceivably having the electric grid offline for some hours of the day or night
Given these kinds of things, I don’t see the practicality of depending on foreign properties. It’s not like you would have six weeks to get your passport in order and arrange for some nice neighbors to watch you place and go to the drugstore to stock up on suntan lotion or something...
>>> I don’t see the practicality of depending on foreign properties. It’s not like you would have six weeks to get your passport in order. <<<<<
Our passports are “in order” and accessible within 30 seconds.
We could be on an international flight by tomorrow morning at the latest.
All financial accounts are online and accessible from anywhere in the world as easily as from right here at my desk.
What more is there?
Oh yeah, drown the cats and lock the front door.
(just kidding, no cats here)
Typical sign: "Looters will be shot, Survivors will be shot again". Another one "Warning, crazy Redneck guarding homes, beware!"
A good way to look at preparations is the “boned” theory.
That is, consider the following. Preparing for an “everything, and all at once” disaster is probably not worth it, because if it is that bad, and that fast, you’re likely going to just grab your emergency kit and run.
So it’s best to look at single issues. One thing that could really put a crimp in your day, and based on past experience, could happen.
For example, the power goes out. Happens all the time. Got batteries? Got battery powered fans for summer, and a battery powered heater for winter? Do you have an adapter to convert a car’s DC battery energy into a little alternating current energy?
Things like that.
Another example is what if either gasoline prices go through the roof, or the gas stations run out of gas? Do you have a bicycle or a moped? Mopeds look silly, but can get you a hundred miles with just a single gallon of gasoline. (And don’t think 100 miles in a straight line, but 100 miles of city driving, to do things like buy groceries, when you have the road to yourself.)
How about potable water? Not having a water filter could be a major pain in the rear end.
Things that if you don’t have them, you are “boned”.
Importantly, the perspective on this, in a community, is that there will be a lot of people who *don’t* have these simple things, and you can be a hero if you can lend them a hand. You might even be a lifesaver.
It’s not usually all at once, just one or two critical things.
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