Posted on 09/18/2009 3:09:05 PM PDT by moneyrunner
In line with the ACORN videos, I thought that I would go to a “respected” website and encourage its commenters to reveal themselves. Instead, I found a thread at the Volokh conspiracy that needs no incitement of disdain and hatred. The essay was by David Bernstein entitled: American Jews, Liberalism, and the Democratic Party
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These are Liberals and Libertarians speaking to each other. All comments are cut and pasted, not edited in any way. Please note that these a comments appended to a single essay in a highly respected blog hosted by law professors.
A more telling combination of moral preening and bigotry will be hard to find outside of the Liberal blogosphere. This one is Libertarian.
Jews are overwhelmingly liberal and progressive: Jews are highly educated and highly educated people tend to believe in progressive values (a strong state dedicated to caring for members of society least able to care for themselves; universal health coverage; respecting scientific consensus when it comes to things like global warming and other environmental concerns; and, general protection of minorities and minority rights whether it's homosexuals, Latinos, Blacks, etc.).
Of course, the fact that Jews are progressive must also be due to logical fallacy or irrational ignorance on their part, right, Bernstein? Truly, I am sorry that you are not accepted by the majority of Jewish political-types, but it's your fault, not theirs. ... I would have thought that Jews' concerns about the Christian right as a political force has less to do with anti-semetism and more to do with the Christian right's desire to base government policy, public school curricula, etc. on Christian religious doctrine.
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(Excerpt) Read more at moneyrunner.blogspot.com ...
The more radical the Democrat party becomes, the more Jews (and a great many others) are abandoning it.
At one time, when Democrats were a decent party who had principled disagreements on the hows and whys of government, but could generally agree on the desired outcomes (help the poor, protect the "little guy" from the "big" guy, workers rights, etc.), it was more favorable to new immigrants than the Republican Party.
But that worm has turned. Instead of the Federal Government being the protective force, the last line of defense against oppressive rights infringement by corrupt local governments, the Federal Government has become the corrupt oppressor.
A great many people are waking up to this fact.
This is a classic collection of two members of the “chattering Class” speaking at one another.
As a Jew, I must note that while ‘witnessing’ evangelicals can occasionally get a bit pushy, I do recognize their faith drives them to try to save me from what they perceive as a certain trip to Hell its self.
I accept their beliefs, and then steer the conversation onto other things.
Americans have major problems, one of which sits in the White House. Time spent on this sort of thing is, IMHO, time wasted.
As the Founders said, “worship your Creator as you see fit. And, allow me the same right. This argument usually takes care of most all such discussions.
European Christians by and large have a pretty poor history of treatment towards Jews. That such treatment remains part of the collective Jewish memory and influences their decision making is of no surprise.
mark
Nice try. 2008 says you're wrong.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I'll believe that when I believe Obama.
Actually, 2010 will say I am right.
The Jewish Left has a very long history of associating with communists and fascists. Also, they don’t believe in the Jewish religion anymore and they hate religious Jews almost as much as they hate non-communist Christians. In addition, they don’t support Israel, rather they are with Obama in supporting the Muslims who hate Israel.
I have hung around Jewish intellectual circles enough to know - nothing is going to change. They are tickeled pink that the correct groups are being hated in the Nation and on the world stage with Obama in power.
Yes, there are very pushy Jewish folks, too. So what.
I know of no Christians who are not aware of the sinful nature of mankind. In fact, that is an integral part of our faith. If we were perfect, we would have no need of a Savior.
What I find repellent is that today – September 2009 – in the United States of America, we find more hatred expressed of whites and Christians – by orders of magnitude - that the reverse.
This is a nation of immigrants, some quite recent – like myself – and to attribute blame of the people living now to the sins – real or imagined – of previous generations is frankly obscene. It is an excuse to spew hatred, pure and simple, free of guilt because you can blame other people’s ancestors. Conveniently forgetting that those ancestors died for your freedom and the right to spew venom.
I have heard anecdotes of evangelicals who try to convert non-Christians by telling them they will go to hell if they don’t believe - all told by non-Christains. Somehow I have never witnessed this. I find it strange that people you know would have this kind of a conversation with you. Can you go into any more detail?
I have had just the experiences I described, from grade school days to the present.
To me it is not a problem, merely part of their religious practice/belief.
Agreed.
Jews are forbidden to proceletyze, however.
Push is pushy, though - you chose exactly the right word, IMHO.
“Jews are forbidden to proceletyze, however.”
As long as they proecletize for the culture of death, it’s okay. And left wing Jewish activists work to aggressively impose the Marxist culture of death and self destruction on Americans, in law and in every institution in the country.
As usual conservatives permit the Left to set the labels for sides of the debate and define those sides. The Left’s media has it boiled down to the culture of freedom on the Left versus the culture of Christian conservatives on the Right.
In reality the culture of freedom is the Marxist cultural cleansing effort of installing the human corruption and death we see in the White House right now. In reality those who do not support the left’s culture of immorality, self destruction, crime and death are the majority of the country and they do not all express their opposition in Christian conservative terms.
For example, I am all for homosexuals doing their own thing without harassment in their personanl lives. I am against them teaching children to behave sexually as they do in the schools because it is not healthy and does not make the culture of freedom strong. The only voice of opposition representing what I think in the culture war is Christian conservatives who seem to have one mode of “proff” in arguments - what Jesus said. In reality whatever “Jesus said” or Moses said can be proven to be true ten times over in medical and social study evidence. But there are no activist organizations of intellectuals to provide this challenge. They run to the Left because they don’t like the sound of Christians.
People instinctively know that we can not be free unless we are able to take care of and police ourselves - survive and thrive in a law abiding way. We can not be united w/o the common civic “religion” of the ideals of the constitution. There are certain social structures, like the family as a safety net, and ideals like treating others the way you want to be treated, that we want to strengthen and hold steady to make the culture of freedom strong. By the same token, the left knows it must destroy the culture of freedom to bring the people into socialism.
The Left has targeted every one of the elements of the clutre of freedom for destruction - on purpose so they can transform the culture in a way that it can not survive or even remember freedom. I think conservatives have a lot of nerve joining the left in hating on Christians since Christians are the ONLY ones who organized and even tried to stop the left’s cultural cleansing efforts.
To make a long story end, (OMG I blab! Forgive me.) because of the importaance of the struggle, I don’t ever stick my nose in the air towards Christian conservatives as they are the only ones who were brave enough to stand up and who stuck to the cause as best they could; many times alone and while other conservatives snipe at them for choosing words incorrectly. We had best get a grip or the commies are going to give us the last knock down punch and killing capitalism and granny is on the agenda.
“As long as they proecletize for the culture of death, it’s okay.”
Ummmn - OK with ???
Commie is as commie does, as far as I see it. Which makes much of the Left’s position on nearly everything “commie”.
And, “commie” is antithetical to the Founding Documents.
Speaking as a 3rd and 5th generation proud White American Baptist myself, with family who died in WWII and fought in Korea, I am very well aware of the sacrifices America made to secure liberty and inalienable rights for millions across the globe.
We, as Conservatives, are constantly surprised and perplexed as to why certain religions, or minorities, seemed drawn to the Democrat party. If we understand the historical context of the "why," then we are better able to counter the entrenched mindset and dispell the historical misnomers that keep certain groups aligned with the Democrat party.
I really wish people would understand this is the point I am trying to make. I'm not trying to excuse the bad behavior of the present by pointing to the past, but approaching this more like a doctor trying to heal a sick patient by examining their medical history.
For many minorities, the Federal Government was seen as the "final arbiter of justice" when local or state governments were corrupt. This is particularly true for minorities, and blacks in particular. That is why certain groups feel far more comfortable aligning with FEDERAL POWERS over State or Local governments, why they are actively supporting consolidated power on the Federal level. We often state that slavery ended over a hundred years ago, but disparity of treatment (real, not imaginary) in income (thanks, unions!), access to justice (guilty verdicts on some of the flimiest of evidence), and the failure to protect inalienable rights, were still occurring until the early 1960s (when the last documented cases of mob lynching were noted).
For Jews coming over during WWII, or after WWII, the threat of prosecution, of exclusion and discrimination, was a very real personal experience, and so they naturally felt compelled to rally on behalf of any group they saw as being persecuted (not allowing history to repeat itself). A coalition was born.
If anything, the current venom that you mentioned is one of the reasons I dug into this issue. We are experiencing some of the same treatment these other groups experienced, and look what an affront it is to our basic humanity. The ridiculous names "un-American," "dangerous," "threats," "ignorant," the "second class citizen" treatment, having our views mocked and ridiculed by the fringe media and the Obamacommies, the biased reporting on anything that we do or say.
Nonetheless, there are a growing number of Jewish activists, including Alan Dershowitz, who are alarmed by the direction this administration is taking, just as their are a growing number of black leaders and pastors who are concerned. They recognize that the Federal Government is no longer the "protective father," and instead has become the oppressor.
We should be looking to those who are bucking the trend (Reverend Jesse is celebrated regularly here for his efforts), to help raise awareness of those who are *historically* aligned with the Democrat party but may not adhere to it's radical, changing course.
These were the Reagan Democrats, and we CAN win them in 2010. Articles, though, that lump all Jews into one category deny the growing number of Jews, particularly Orthodox Jews, who no longer see Christians as a threat, but a necessary partner in securing and preserving liberty, and keeping Israel, as a nation, safe in the Middle East.
Other posters have pointed out that there are Jews who have rejected their fath (or are Jews-In-Name-Only) who have no love for Israel and have crossed over to the political dark side. We can't help them, just like we can't help Christians-in-name-only, Catholics-in-name-only, or RINOs. But the rest are not beyond our reach.
We seem to have a selective memory of the role of the federal government in discrimination. I can’t blame most people for this because it’s something that’s taught in public schools and pervasive in literature. The fact is that it was the federal government – IN THE CONSTITUTION – that recognized the legitimacy and legality of slavery. It was the federal government that segregated the military. It was the federal government that gave us the Dred Scott decision. It was the federal government that permitted legal segregation and “separate but equal.” Oh … and it was the federal government that dealt with the Indians to our great shame.
Which party fought a civil war to end slavery? Which party was in power when the National Guard was sent to integrate schools in the Little Rock? Which party stood in the schoolhouse door? Which party held the “Solid South” during “Jim Crow” days?
The fact is that most blacks were Republicans before FDR. What did he do for them regarding their mistreatment? Yeah, I can’t think of anything either.
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