How Liberalism and Libertarianism Destroyed Liberty

The Bitpig Rant ^ | 2009.11.10 | Bitpig (B-Chan)

[Petronski]

Because there is no such thing as a "conservative" Catholic.

That's an outright lie.

[Petronski]

Is the first time you've met her?

Wow are you in for a treat!

Rhetoric and tactics right out of the Völkischer Beobacter, just substitute an anti-Catholic slur where Streicher would have put an anti-Semitic slur.

[Petronski]

Any one here want to agree with such an outlandish statement?

Actually, the operative question here ought to be "Any one here want to ADMIT THAT THEY agree with such an outlandish statement?"

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Great post worth bookmarking, Alex.

B-Chan: Human beings have the positive and Divine right to daily bread, health care, and other aspects of human dignity.

"It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god." -- Adolf Hitler, "Mein Kampf" (with apologies to Irving)  

[B-Chan]

There was never any official and universal pogrom against Jews per se in Spain. Jews were present at all levels of society under the united monarchy. However, given the ethnic and political realities of the time -- which you so conveniently fail to describe in your post -- the Alhambra Decree expelling the Jews (and Muslims) from Spain was entirely just and proper. The rightful Christian rulers of Iberia had just finished winning an 800-year war against the forces of Islam -- a war fought town by town, battle by battle, throughout which the cause of Islam had been helped and financed by the Jewish leaders of Spain. During the war, many Jews who had ostensibly converted to the Christian faith continued to secretly live and practice as Jews, and had formed alliances with the Muslim invaders. By 1492, there was no room in Spain for a Spaniard whose loyalty to Crown and Cross was in question; to be a Spaniard, one had also to be Catholic. Thus the Decree.

Meaning no disrespect, but it is obvious to me that you, like most Americans, have only the sketchiest awareness of history (especially Spanish history). I don't blame you; I blame our educational system, the curriculum of which has been designed and controlled by WASPs to propagandize children against Spain, Catholic Christianity, and all life and thought counter to the WASP worldview. Fortunately, it is possible to educate oneself in the facts of history as it actually happened. To that end, I recommend to you William Thomas Walsh's excellent book Characters of the Inquisition (MacMillan, New York, 1940). An inexpensive paperback edition (1987, ISBN 0-89555-326-0) is available from TAN Books and Publishers.

[Poe White Trash]

Don't worry, Jewbacca. They'll permit a few Jews to stick around as merchants and moneylenders so they'll have someone without any legal defense to squeeze money from when the monarchy's coffers are empty.

Those medieval kingdoms -- bastions of liberty for gentile and jew alike, don't ya know./SARC

[B-Chan]

It's kind of hard to believe that people who claim to be conservative come to FR and advocate the destruction of the Republic and union of church and state.

Are you referring to me, noob? In my eleven-year history of posting to FR I have never once advocated the destruction of the American republic nor advocated the union of church and state, as anyone with even a passing ability to read and comprehend the English language can clearly see. I do advocate traditional conservatism, which predates both the liberal revolutionary consciousness that gave us the U.S. Constitution and the French Republics and the watered-down Chamber of Commerce Limbaugh Liberalism most Freepers espouse.

You've been here what, four whole years? That makes you a "W Freeper". How's that rock-solid support of "compassionate conservatism" working out for you, O great Freeper sage?

[Lurking Libertarian]

Here’s what God has to say about monarchies:

The Hebrew Bible (what Christians call the Old Testament) preserves both pro-monarchy and anti-monarchy traditions (both schools of thought were influential in ancient Israel). The pro-monarchy school is reflected in, for example, Judges 17:6 and 21:5 ("In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.").

[Dr. Eckleburg]

If and when I ever meet a Roman Catholic who seriously disagrees with Ratzinger's "global authority" encyclical and voices that disagreement, I'll reconsider.

But a mind that does not know liberty cannot conceive of liberty. It thinks it is free even as its shackles weigh it down.

[ikeonic]

There was never any official and universal pogrom against Jews per se in Spain. Jews were present at all levels of society under the united monarchy. However, given the ethnic and political realities of the time -- which you so conveniently fail to describe in your post -- the Alhambra Decree expelling the Jews (and Muslims) from Spain was entirely just and proper. The rightful Christian rulers of Iberia had just finished winning an 800-year war against the forces of Islam -- a war fought town by town, battle by battle, throughout which the cause of Islam had been helped and financed by the Jewish leaders of Spain. During the war, many Jews who had ostensibly converted to the Christian faith continued to secretly live and practice as Jews, and had formed alliances with the Muslim invaders. By 1492, there was no room in Spain for a Spaniard whose loyalty to Crown and Cross was in question; to be a Spaniard, one had also to be Catholic. Thus the Decree.

Ah.. the good old days! It wasn't a pogrom, per se, you say? Those silly Jews, siding with the Muslims... what were they thinking? Trading one dhimmi status for another and still no true homeland to settle in. That whole Diaspora thing must have escaped your notice. By the way, Pope John Paul II already apologized for the Inquisition. Don't make us have to keep apologizing for it.

Your fantastical worship of monarchies a sign that you are deeply disturbed. Please go read Thomas Paine's "Common Sense" and learn a little more about why our founding fathers wanted a free republic and not another monarchy (get it, the name of this forum -- check that URL thingee if you're confused).

You're insulting fellow Catholics with your monarchy gobbly goop. Americans do not want to be ruled by a king.

[wmfights]

To: EveningStar

I want a Catholic monarchy. One won’t appear as the result of positive action, however; the restored Christian society will arise organically after the fall of the current global social order.

18 posted on Tuesday, November 10, 2009 2:34:21 PM by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies | Report Abuse]

In my eleven-year history of posting to FR I have never once advocated the destruction of the American republic nor advocated the union of church and state, as anyone with even a passing ability to read and comprehend the English language can clearly see.

You really should try to remember what your posting.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

"Characters of the Inquisition"

Lolol!

A merry bunch of tricksters, no doubt.

There was never any official and universal pogrom against Jews per se in Spain.

And that's exactly the kind of bonehead defense an inquisitor might offer.

"Convert or get out," said Ferdie and Izzie.

And if they didn't get out?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Actually he’s committing sedition.

[Petronski]

Expressing what he wants and advocating positive action to achieve it are two different things.

[stfassisi]

The Church is called upon to provide these social services. The State has no just role in pubic life except to keep the peace, protect the borders, establish justice, and preserve the national patrimony. In a Christian social order, the State officially recognizes the Church's special role in the life of the nation, and protects and support the Church in its provision of social services. This was the pattern of social organization throughout Christendom until the advent of the Lutheran heresy, which proclaimed the cult of individual Liberty and its separation of Church and State.

An excellent statement- Truth is.... the modernist don't have a clue,thus calling themselves conservatives and liberals- they are both really liberals who have no idea what true freedom really means compared to Pope Leo XIII and Pope Benedict XVI

From the words of Blessed Bishop Fulton Sheen...

"Under this system there is no will but the class will or the national will or the race will. The person no longer exists."

True freedom does not give man the right to do whatever you or I please, not the duty to do whatever you must; but it means the right to do whatever you ought- and oughtness implies law, responsibility, purpose. In other words freedom in inseparable from the God of Love Who made us.

[Poe White Trash]

Human beings have the positive and Divine right to daily bread, health care, and other aspects of human dignity.

If by "positive" you're referring to a system of positive law, which system are you referring to in the context of a right to "daily bread, health care, and other aspects of human dignity"?

As for Divine right, what authority are you referring to here as the basis of a right to daily bread and health care? What Scripture? What Tradition?

In his Luciferian quest for individual Liberty, however, Western man has destroyed the Divinely-ordained social order under which the Church provided these goods.

Which "Divinely-ordained social order" are you referring to? During the Late Middle Ages, we had a disintegrating feudalism and a nascent capitalism. Which do you prefer? In terms of a political order, we find political entities such as kingdoms, republics, and empires (among others). Why no valorization of empires or republics on your part?

As a result, the heavy hand of the State will now intrude into every aspect of public life in its futile attempt to build a just society.

I've read that the EU will be able to avoid the "heavy-handed State" problem. You see, they've got these principles of subsidiarity and solidarity in the EU constitution, and as everyone knows the mere presence of these principles is sufficient to protect a people from tyranny...

...or not.

And although it is true that the modern State is...well, modern, it's also the case that many pre-Modern governments could be heavy-handed, too (especially when it was tax time). Just ask the Christians under Nero or Diocletian.

Ironically, the worship of individual liberty instigated by the "reformers" of the Church and the secular counterparts of the "enlightenment" has destroyed the liberty under God that individuals once enjoyed as organic parts of the Catholic and medieval social order.

Please be specific.

Do you mean the "Catholic" and medieval social order that had polities that were so weak that Viking, Muslim, and Hungarian raiders (and armies!) could attack at will for centuries?

Where famine and plague ravaged urban poor and serfs in the countryside alike?

Where those self-same urban poor and serfs had very little of what we would recognize as "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"? Not to mention no King's Justice, which they couldn't afford.

Where local economies were so cash-starved that elites either squeezed their serfs for what they could get; raided, robbed or cheated their neighbors; or financed armies for the purpose of obtaining slaves to be sold "down south" to labor-hungry Islamics?

THAT "Catholic" and medieval social order?

[Poe White Trash]

Expressing what he wants and advocating positive action to achieve it are two different things.

LOL!

"Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?"

[HarleyD]

As Calvinists we need to keep things in perspective. When the people of God have fail in their obedience to God, as has happened over and over in scripture, God brings calamity and judgment upon His people. Often, as we saw with the judges the people would cry out, God would rescue them only to have them fall back into their old ways. While the new covenant with the Holy Spirit is more perfect then the old, it is still not perfect. Redeemed man is set free to be obedient to God, but quite frankly, we squander the magnificent opportunities God gives to us as Christians.

It is God who raise up nations and make them fall for His own divine reason. If this great nation falls to the ruinous hands of liberal atheists, then it is because Christians have been unfaithful to God and it is God's will-not man's. Fighting against this tide will not help us win this battle. We need to have God fighting for us. This requires us to acknowledge and confess our sins and move forward to whatever lies ahead, accepting it as God's plan for our lives.

I, for one, do not plan on sitting back and waiting for the liberals to destroy this country. It is our divine duty to fight for those things that are right and true. However, if that is God's will that we pass into shadow, then so be it. Without getting into an eschatological discussion, there is ample evidence that society is devolving and an indication that the Lord's return is soon. This may simply be another sign of this happening.

[Poe White Trash]

True freedom does not give man the right to do whatever you or I please, not the duty to do whatever you must; but it means the right to do whatever you ought- and oughtness implies law, responsibility, purpose. In other words freedom in inseparable from the God of Love Who made us.

Fine words. I wonder what the mother and father of Edgar Mortara would have made of them.

[B-Chan]

Reading for comprehension isn’t your strong suit.