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Being born in the United States does not even make one a 'NATIVE' citizen.
nobarack08 | Feb 12, 2010 | syc1959

Posted on 02/12/2010 12:35:44 PM PST by syc1959

Being born in the United States does not even make one a 'NATIVE' citizen.

Immigration and Citizenship: Process and Policy fourth edition Under Jus Soli, the following is written "The Supreme Court's first holding on the sublect suggested that the court would give a restrictive reading to the phrase, potentially disqualifing significant number of persons born within the physical boundries of the nation. In Elk v. Wilkins 112 U.S. 94, 5 S.CT. 41, 28 L.ED. 643 (1884), the court ruled that native Indians were not U.S. citizens, even if they later severed their ties with their tribes. The words "subject to the jurisdiction thereof," the court held, mean "not merely subjct in some respect or degree to the jurisdiction of the United States, but completely subject to their political jurisdiction, and owing them direct and immediate allegiange." Most Indians could not meet the test. "Indians born within the territorial limits of the United States, members of, and owing immediate allegiance to, one of the Indian Tribes, (an alien through dependent power,) although in a geographical sense born in the United States, are no more 'born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,'*** then the children of subjects of any foreign government born within the domain of that government ***. Id. at 102. It continues that Congress eventually passed legislation with the 'Allotment Act of 1887, that conferred citizenship on many Indians.

The fact remains, the Court held, complete and sole Jurisdiction. As I have held that being born anywhere in the United States, jurisdiction is required, sole and complete, and Barack Hussein Obama was already claimed by British jurisdiction under the British Nationailty Act of 1948, and as such fails the United states Constitutional requirement of a Natural Born Citizen.

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Barack Hussein Obama did not have sole jurisdiction under the United States.

Title 8 and the 14th Amendment clearlt state the following;

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof

Note: 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof'


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: barack; birthcertificate; birthers; certifigate; citizen; illegal; nativeborncitizen; naturalborn; naturalborncitizen; obama; undocumented
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1 posted on 02/12/2010 12:35:44 PM PST by syc1959
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To: syc1959

Should clarify, that JUST being born in the United States does not make anyone a ‘Native’ citizen automatically.


2 posted on 02/12/2010 12:37:38 PM PST by syc1959
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To: syc1959

OMG.... you’ve done it. You’ve proved that Barack Obama is not a Native American!!!!

He damn well better not apply for a Casino License!!!


3 posted on 02/12/2010 12:38:29 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: syc1959

Does this mean he could never become President?


4 posted on 02/12/2010 12:42:05 PM PST by The_Media_never_lie
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To: syc1959

Nice try but still meaningless


5 posted on 02/12/2010 12:42:30 PM PST by the long march
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To: The_Media_never_lie

Yeah. Not a chance he’ll become President now.


6 posted on 02/12/2010 12:44:02 PM PST by El Sordo (The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.)
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To: syc1959
So can I open a casino in my back yard or not?????
7 posted on 02/12/2010 12:47:50 PM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: syc1959
I thought the term used in the Constitution was “natural born citizen”.
8 posted on 02/12/2010 12:48:03 PM PST by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
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To: syc1959
I agree

The constitution DOES NOT SAY:
"Anyone born in the Unites Sates is a citizen"

It says:
"Anyone born in the Unites Sates, AND under the laws and jurisdictions of, is a citizen"

I may not have the exact words- but you can see there is a MAJOR difference between those 2 sentences.

I think that all these illegal aliens with so-called 'anchor babies' (a child born in the US to an ILLEGAL alien) are NOT citizens

9 posted on 02/12/2010 12:49:58 PM PST by Mr. K (This administration IS WEARING OUT MY CAPSLOCK KEY!)
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To: Gay State Conservative
I thought the term used in the Constitution was “natural born citizen”.

It is.

The whole birther thing is fueled by racism and disgusts me.

The President was born in Hawaii. His birth certificate has been seen over and over again. Hawaii is part of the United States. He is a natural born citizen. Get over it.

10 posted on 02/12/2010 12:50:29 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: Mr. K
I think that all these illegal aliens with so-called 'anchor babies' (a child born in the US to an ILLEGAL alien) are NOT citizens

The courts beg to differ.

11 posted on 02/12/2010 12:52:03 PM PST by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: syc1959

lets all put some funds up and get the ball rolling


12 posted on 02/12/2010 12:52:23 PM PST by chicken head
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To: anotherview
The President was born in Hawaii. His birth certificate has been seen over and over again.

Did you wake up and have a bowl of stupid for breakfast!!!? I challenge you to show me Barack Hussein Obama's BIRTH CERTIFICATE! YOU LIE. There is a "CertifiCATION of Live Birth" that was released on the internet. THAT IS NOT A BIRTH CERTIFICATE. Get your facts straight.

13 posted on 02/12/2010 12:57:28 PM PST by missnry (The truth will set you free ... and drive liberals Crazy!)
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To: anotherview

Not racism.

More like wishful thinking, emotionally driven reasoning, lack of clarity of thought, lack of intellectual honesty and simple refusal to accept reality.

But very little racism.


14 posted on 02/12/2010 12:57:51 PM PST by El Sordo (The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.)
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To: anotherview
The whole birther thing is fueled by racism and disgusts me.

You're out of your mind, did a DUmmie hack your account?

15 posted on 02/12/2010 12:59:30 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM where are you?)
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To: LucyT; null and void
Being born in the United States does not even make one a 'NATIVE' citizen.

Ping!

16 posted on 02/12/2010 1:01:22 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM where are you?)
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To: anotherview
Your understanding of the law is lacking.
17 posted on 02/12/2010 1:03:34 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (usff.com)
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To: anotherview

what is being born in Hawaii have to do with BaracK Hussein Obama being a British Subject, under British Law.

It doesn’t matter, as british Law states QUOTE:

British Common Law that included Bl Com [Blackstone Commentaries] dictated that British subject could never forfeit being in the allegiance to the King regardless of place or time.

British Common Law, the British Nationality act of 1948 that covered Barack Obama Sr and that also covered his children, including but not limited to Barack Hussein Obama. Was and still is a British subject, still oweing allegiance to the Crown.

Barack Hussein Obama was and still is under the British Nationality Act of 1948, and as such no matter where he was born, he fails with any percent of foreign whatever fails as a ‘Natural Born Citizen’ as required by the United States Constitution.

Again, back to John Jay...”Permit me to hint, whether it would not be wise & seasonable to provide a a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expresly that the Command in chief of the american army shall not be given to, nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.”

So how does any foreign influence, law, citizenship, or allegiance provide that ‘strong check’.

Notice once again, they have a whole group devoted to preverting the United States Constitution, and so far haven’t come up with one valid argument, they can take into court.


18 posted on 02/12/2010 1:03:49 PM PST by syc1959
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To: anotherview

Really. Show us his birth certificate troll.


19 posted on 02/12/2010 1:04:36 PM PST by Frantzie (TV - sending Americans towards Islamic serfdom - Cancel TV service NOW)
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To: missnry

The COLB that has been posted is a forgery.
There is nothing to prove that he was actually born anywhere in the United States, let alone Hawaii.

It is a fabricated document, a digital image. Nothing more.
I have debunked the forgery evry which way you possible, including emails from the State of Hawaii.

http://nobarack08.wordpress.com


20 posted on 02/12/2010 1:06:01 PM PST by syc1959
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To: missnry

By definition and by law, you are wrong. A certification of live birth is a birth certificate.


21 posted on 02/12/2010 1:07:32 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: Frantzie; anotherview
anotherview
Since Apr 19, 2002

You might want to be a little careful on the troll accusations.

Uninformed on this subject maybe but not very likely a troll.

22 posted on 02/12/2010 1:08:27 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM where are you?)
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To: EnderWiggins
A certification of live birth is a birth certificate.

You're FOS, noob

23 posted on 02/12/2010 1:09:17 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM where are you?)
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To: EnderWiggins

The COLB forgery ONLY states a birth took place, not to where or when or other vital statstics.

Please tell us the name of the witnesses, and doctor, the hospital.

The Dr Rodney west story, was debunked in mere hours.


24 posted on 02/12/2010 1:10:12 PM PST by syc1959
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To: syc1959
"what is being born in Hawaii have to do with BaracK Hussein Obama being a British Subject, under British Law."

Absolutely nothing. There is no connection whatsoever between those two things.

"Barack Hussein Obama was and still is under the British Nationality Act of 1948, and as such no matter where he was born, he fails with any percent of foreign whatever fails as a ‘Natural Born Citizen’ as required by the United States Constitution."

Oh, darn. And you were doing so well.

The Constitution does not say that.
25 posted on 02/12/2010 1:11:19 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: EnderWiggins

Hahaha


26 posted on 02/12/2010 1:12:17 PM PST by Hexenhammer ( The Spirit of '76!)
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To: anotherview
Yeah, here's my "Birth Certificate:"

It's real, I swear it! Now, make me President, dang-it!!!

27 posted on 02/12/2010 1:13:16 PM PST by DoctorBulldog
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To: syc1959
"The COLB that has been posted is a forgery."

Great.

If you actually have evidence that that is true, then you now have everything you need to completely blow the lid off this thing. If the COLB is forgery, then the Hawaii DOH is fully complicit in a criminal act, because they know it is a fake and have done nothing to expose it.

Time to get one of those awesome Birther lawyers and file a criminal complaint against the hawaii DOH. There will be no hurdle of standing whatsoever.

So... what's keeping you?
28 posted on 02/12/2010 1:14:18 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: syc1959

This is counterproductive - and, if you have to fall back on a technicality like this, kind of pathetic. Even if this is an accurate reading of the law, the average American (myself included) has a deep aversion to judging people on their parental/familial backgrounds. People also dislike technicalities. Saying Obama is unqualified to be president because his FATHER may have been a British subject? Not gonna fly, even if true.

I have other problems with the Birthers. Do you really think Obama was born in Kenya? Fine - do the leg work, find the evidence, and show us. Until then, quit yapping. You sound crazy and you make the rest of us look crazy. And make no mistake, the media will play up the “crazy” angle to the best of its ability.

Appearances matter. To openminded folks who might consider voting GOP in the next election, you look like conspiracist maniacs who are still stuck on losing the election and care more about that than the real issues of the day, of which there are many. Who wants to jump on a bandwagon like that?


29 posted on 02/12/2010 1:15:38 PM PST by FelixFelicis (When can we *change* back? [Get yer bumper sticker at www.cafepress.com/deepright!])
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To: anotherview

See what I mean?


30 posted on 02/12/2010 1:15:58 PM PST by El Sordo (The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.)
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To: anotherview
The President was born in Hawaii. His birth certificate has been seen over and over again. Hawaii is part of the United States. He is a natural born citizen. Get over it.

I'm not as familiar with this matter as are some. However,I'm almost certain that I've read several quotes from one or more Founding Fathers and at least one from an early Supreme Court Justice that essentially say that to be considered to be "natural born" one must not only be born *in* the US but must be born of two US citizens.

31 posted on 02/12/2010 1:16:52 PM PST by Gay State Conservative (Host The Beer Summit-->Win The Nobel Peace Prize!)
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To: EnderWiggins

Barack Hussein Obama regardless of where he was born, Kenya, Hawaii, the Washington Momument, is a British Subject, under British law, and as such fails as the United States Constitution requires only a “Natural Born Citizen” is eligilble for the Presidency.

How is a British subject a ‘Natural Born Citizen’ of the United States?

How is a ‘Natural Born Citizen’ of the United States governed by British Law?

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

Considerations on the Nature and Extent of the Legislative Authority of the British Parliament, 1774.

Thus we see, that the subjects of the king, though they reside in foreign countries, still owe the duties of allegiance, and are still entitled to the advantages of it. They transmit to their posterity the privilege of naturalization, and all the other privileges which are the consequences of it.{q}

{q} Natural born subjects have a great variety of rights, which they acquire by being born in the king’s ligeance, and can never forfeit by any distance of place or time, but only by their own misbehaviour; the explanation of which rights is the principal subject of the law. 1. Bl. Com. 371.


32 posted on 02/12/2010 1:16:56 PM PST by syc1959
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To: Las Vegas Ron
"You're FOS, noob"

Uhhh... probably on some issues, but not this one. I am my family's historian. I have scores of birth certificates from eleven states and four foreign countries.

COLBs are definitely birth certificates.
33 posted on 02/12/2010 1:17:13 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: EnderWiggins
The Constitution does not say that.

What part of Article II Sec. 1 do you not understand?

34 posted on 02/12/2010 1:17:29 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM where are you?)
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To: EnderWiggins

Elder;

The date stamp is on the template.
There is no Seal nor is there the registar’s signiture.


35 posted on 02/12/2010 1:19:11 PM PST by syc1959
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To: syc1959
"The COLB forgery ONLY states a birth took place, not to where or when or other vital statstics."

Hmmmm.... so what then are those dates, times and places about if not where or when the birth took place?

"Please tell us the name of the witnesses, and doctor, the hospital."

Why? Are those secret requirements in the Constitution for Presidential Eligibility? Did somebody slip in a 28th Amendment while we weren't looking?
36 posted on 02/12/2010 1:20:38 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: Gay State Conservative; anotherview
• “Minor v. Happersett - yes, it’s been mentioned on FR but not fully hashed out. I don’t see how, if this was decided by the SCOTUS then they did indeed give a definition of the term NBC.
http://supreme.justia.com/us/88/162/case.html";
Not only has it been discussed, but so too have other SCOTUS cases that have that exact definition that the framers (no doubt) used when they entered the NBC requirement without debate.
Attorney Apuzzo mentions these cases in the “Kerchner v Obama” & Congress case:
“THE VENUS, 12 U.S. (8 Cranch) 253, 289 (1814) (Marshall, C.J. concurring) (cites Vattel’s definition of Natural Born Citizen)
SHANKS V. DUPONT, 28 U.S. 242, 245 (1830) (same definition without citing Vattel)
MINOR V. HAPPERSETT, 88 U.S.162,167-168 ( 1875) (same definition without citing Vattel)
EX PARTE REYNOLDS, 1879, 5 Dill., 394, 402 (same definition and cites Vattel)
UNITED STATES V WARD, 42 F.320 (C.C.S.D. Cal. 1890) (same definition and cites Vattel.)”
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17519578/Kerchner-v-Obama-Congress-DOC-34-Plaintiffs-Brief-Opposing-Defendants-Motion-to-Dismiss
NBC in the Constitutional drafts:
June 18th, 1787 - Alexander Hamilton suggests that the requirement be added, as: “No person shall be eligible to the office of President of the United States unless he be now a Citizen of one of the States, or hereafter be born a Citizen of the United States.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_of_the_United_States
July 25, 1787 (~5 weeks later) - John Jay writes a letter to General Washington (president of the Constitutional Convention): “Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.” [the word born is underlined in Jay's letter.] http://rs6.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field%28DOCID+@lit%28fr00379%29%29:
September 2nd, 1787 George Washington pens a letter to John Jay. The last line reads: “I thank you for the hints contained in your letter”
http://www.consource.org/index.asp?bid=582&fid=600&documentid=71483
September 4th, 1787 (~6 weeks after Jay's letter and just 2 days after Washington wrote back to Jay) - The “Natural Born Citizen” requirement is now found in their drafts. Madison's notes of the Convention The proposal passed unanimously without debate.
37 posted on 02/12/2010 1:21:06 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM where are you?)
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To: syc1959

So at what point in history are Indians not native born?


38 posted on 02/12/2010 1:21:37 PM PST by SkyDancer (If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed)
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To: Gay State Conservative
"I'm not as familiar with this matter as are some. However,I'm almost certain that I've read several quotes from one or more Founding Fathers and at least one from an early Supreme Court Justice that essentially say that to be considered to be "natural born" one must not only be born *in* the US but must be born of two US citizens."

You do not recall correctly. No such a quotation form any of the Founders or Framers exists.
39 posted on 02/12/2010 1:23:11 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: syc1959
"How is a British subject a ‘Natural Born Citizen’ of the United States?"

It's called dual citizenship. It happens all the time. Most Americans who are dual citizens (and there are tens of millions of them) don't even know it.

"How is a ‘Natural Born Citizen’ of the United States governed by British Law?"

He can't. Only his status as a British subject can.


40 posted on 02/12/2010 1:25:48 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: El Sordo

OK, use your intellectual honesty and tell me how someone born a citizen of the UK becomes a natural born citizen of the US. Tell me what the legal procedure is. This I would love to hear.


41 posted on 02/12/2010 1:26:06 PM PST by IMR 4350
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To: SkyDancer

‘Allotment Act of 1887, conferred citizenship on many Indians.

Obot’s chasing their tails.....

The Obot Creed

I believe in Barack Obama, the bearer of Hope and Change

And in his rhetoric, and tales of woe

Who was born of the mother Stanley, in a place unknown

In the sixth year migrated to Indonesia

He ascended to the Senate, and unqualified, usurped the Presidency

Who suffered under Orly Taitz and was slurred by racist birthers

I believe in spreading the wealth

Of the taxes and levies therein,

the loss of freedom, that cost doesn’t matter

That healthcare is free

As long as I don’t have pay


42 posted on 02/12/2010 1:26:19 PM PST by syc1959
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To: EnderWiggins

Dual Citizenship is not sole jurisdiction, is it?


43 posted on 02/12/2010 1:27:01 PM PST by syc1959
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To: Las Vegas Ron
"What part of Article II Sec. 1 do you not understand?"

The part that says an NBC can't be a dual citizen. You know! The imaginary part.
44 posted on 02/12/2010 1:27:28 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: EnderWiggins
By definition and by law, you are wrong. A certification of live birth is a birth certificate.

By the constitution of the United States it states that the President must be a natural born citizen. That requires a document called a BIRTH CERTIFICATE which states the CITIZENSHIP of the PARENTS. The COLB does not have that information on it. If you have not been following this issue then you would not realize that FOREIGNERS can register a birth in the state of Hawaii.

45 posted on 02/12/2010 1:27:37 PM PST by missnry (The truth will set you free ... and drive liberals Crazy!)
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To: EnderWiggins
I am my family's historian. I have scores of birth certificates from eleven states and four foreign countries.

And that lends what credibility to your false assertion?

46 posted on 02/12/2010 1:29:01 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM where are you?)
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To: syc1959
"Dual Citizenship is not sole jurisdiction, is it?"

Those two things have nothing to do with each other.
47 posted on 02/12/2010 1:29:44 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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To: EnderWiggins
You do not recall correctly. No such a quotation form any of the Founders or Framers exists.

Again you demonstrate you complete ignorance on this subject.

See my post #37 and study up lest you be accused of being a troll.....which is my bet anyway.

48 posted on 02/12/2010 1:31:24 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM where are you?)
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To: EnderWiggins

When you have two citizen parents, there is no dual nationality or citizenship.

As per Thomas Jefferson;

In Letters of Delegates to Congress, 1774-1789, Volume 21, Pages 250-251 ( http://tinyurl.com/8zvmgy ), we see notes from Thomas Jefferson from December 1783.

The first question is

“Qu. 1. Can an American citizen, adult, now inherit lands in England?”

to which Thomas Jefferson begins his answer with

“Natural subjects can inherit–Aliens cannot.
There is no middle character–every man must be the one or the other of these.”

(In other words, dual nationality did not exist. Citizenship was singular.)

Thomas Jefferson also wrote this in his answer:

“An alien is the subject or citizen of a foreign power.
The treaty of peace acknowleges we are no longer to owe allegiance to the king of G.B. It acknowleges us no longer as Natural subjects then.
It makes us citizens of independent states; it makes us aliens then.”

(So, in the context of these notes, an “alien” is an American citizen and not a British subject.)

The second question is

“Qu.2. The father a British subject; the son in America, adult, and within the description of an American citizen, according to their laws. Can the son inherit?”

and Thomas Jefferson answers, before dealing with an objection,
“He owes allegiance to the states. He is an alien then and cannot inherit.”

(For the adult “alien” citizen son, the state of the British father does not descend to him, neither with respect to nationality/allegiance nor with respect to property.)

The third question is
“Qu. 3. The father a British subject. The son as in Qu. 2. but an infant. Can he inherit?”

Thomas Jefferson’s answer:

“1st. by the Common law.
We have seen before that the state of the father does not draw to it as an accessory that of the son where he is an adult. But by the common law.”

(Thomas Jefferson wrote that there was “no middle character” between a “natural subject” and an “alien”. Further, he called the ADULT AMERICAN CITIZEN son of the British subject an ALIEN who could not inherit from the British father. So, it stands to reason that Thomas Jefferson is calling the MINOR son of the British subject a NATURAL SUBJECT by the common law in following the state of the father, even though the minor son is in America following the Treaty of Paris, called the “treaty of peace” in Thomas Jefferson’s answer to Question 1.)

“An alien is the subject or citizen of a foreign power.
The treaty of peace acknowleges we are no longer to owe allegiance to the king of G.B. It acknowleges us no longer as Natural subjects then.
It makes us citizens of independent states; it makes us aliens then.”

Here is the bomb-
When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

Therefore Obama is an alien of the United States and an Alien is not, can not, nor EVER be a “Natural Born Citizen”

There is no middle character, Obama fails.


49 posted on 02/12/2010 1:31:25 PM PST by syc1959
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To: syc1959
"The date stamp is on the template."

Uh... no. It's on the back.

"There is no Seal nor is there the registar’s signiture."

Yes there is. The registrar's signature is on the back. And the seal is hard to see in the scan, but it's still there.
50 posted on 02/12/2010 1:31:55 PM PST by EnderWiggins
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