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To: rxsid

That shows that the term “natural born citizen” was in use before the drafting of the Constitution, but I don’t think that is in dispute. What is in dispute is what “natural born citizen” was understood to mean at that time, and these naturalization acts provide no guidance as to that issue.

I think we’ve established that there were at least two definitions of “natural born citizen” extant at the time (assuming for the sake of argument that Vattel’s “naturel or indigenes” was understood at the time to translate to “natural born citizen”). There was the English common law definition, as explained by Blackstone, and there was Vattel’s definition, which was probably derived from French law at the time.

I’ve yet to see any conclusive evidence that one definition or the other was more generally accepted in the United States in 1787. Absent such evidence, it seems far more likely that the English common law definition was used, since virtually all other American law was based on English, not French, law. Also, from what I’ve seen of the early Supreme Court cases that cite Vattel, Vattel was used primarily as a source on international, not domestic, law.


63 posted on 05/13/2010 2:39:07 PM PDT by The Pack Knight (Duty, Honor, Country)
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To: The Pack Knight
Original French version of Vattel's Law of Nations:

Emer de Vattel, Le droit des gens, ou Principes de la loi naturelle, vol. 1 (of 2) [1758]

From Chapter XIX, 212 (page 248 of 592):
Title in French: "Des citoyens et naturels"
To English: "Citizens and natural"

French text (about citizens): "Les citoyens sont les membres de la societe civile : lies a cette societe par certains devoirs et soumis a son autorite, ils participent avec egalite a ses avantages."
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To English: "The citizens are the members of the civil society: linked to this society by certain duties and subject to its authority, they participate with equality has its advantages."
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French text (about "natural" born citizens): "Les naturels, ou indigenes, sont ceux qui sont nes dans le pays, de parens citoyens"
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To English, gives this: "the natural, or indigenous, are those born in the country, parents who are citizens"

The last translation regards citizens who were "natural born." Pretty straight forward to me.

64 posted on 05/13/2010 3:57:06 PM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: The Pack Knight
There was the English common law definition

Of natural born subject. While Vattel was definitely writing of citoyens/citizens.

105 posted on 05/18/2010 8:50:16 PM PDT by El Gato ("The second amendment is the reset button of the US constitution"-Doug McKay)
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