Skip to comments.Fastest M-4gery in the East (Friday Night Gun Thread)
Posted on 06/18/2010 5:25:32 PM PDT by Travis McGee
Okay, this wasn't a bench-by-bench comparison. But I did shoot one rifle last week at my range, and the other rifle today at a guest range. Both ranges are in Florida, if you care, on opposite coasts.
Both rifles were comparable M-4gerys. Top end or close to to top end. (Not junk.) Similar stocks, barrels, etc. I'm not going to mention the makes, because it's not the point of my essay tonight. Trust me, both are fine, fine rifles that are capable of greater accuracy than I ever will lend to them.
Okay. Rifle #1 sports a 1 power EOTech sight and a compensator/muzzle brake. The EOTech's 1X aiming point is a one minute of angle red dot, surrounded by a red circle. If you have read this far, you already know this.
Rifle #2 sports a 4X Trijicon ACOG and a flash suppressor. The ACOG's reticle is an orange triangle, the aiming point is the top tip. In both cases I was shooting from a bench and offhand at 100 yards at standard 100 yard NRA targets. These are about 2 feet square, with about a 10" black bullseye graduated with rings. I wasn't counting scores, but initial sighting-in groups, and then offhand effectiveness.
Impressions: the Trijicon is the finest sight I've ever shot on a combat carbine, period. Bar none. Better by far than my EOTech, Aimpoints (4 minute of angle red dots) and various other optical and electronic sights I have used. Off a rest, the Trijicon was shooting a sub 2" group, and I suck at bench rest shooting. I cannot get my EOTech to shoot that well, even though it has a 1 MOA red dot, mainly because my "over 50" eyes are starting to slip, maybe. The best bench groups I could get with the EOTech were about 4". The 4X Trijicon brought that 10" bull in sharp and clear. The triangle top reticle is like a surgeon's scalpel. Sub 2" bench groups were easy. Yet it's also bright and fast and "intuitive."
Bench rest verdict: Trijicon wins, hands down.
Standing, offhand. To get a little realism into the comparison, I shot identical NRA targets offhand, "semi-rapid fire." A combat carbine is about shooting with speed while running around and trying not to get shot. Bench rest performance is just step one. Standing offhand with both rifles/sights, I could really kill that 10" bull at 100 yards. The 1 MOA EOTech is easily centered. Offhand, both rifles and scopes were far better than the shooter, me. But to be truthful, semi-rapid fire standing, and going through entire 30 round mags to simulate realistic fatigue, I found it much easier to stay "all in the black" with the Trijicon. That 4X triangle is just so damn good. And it has built-in stadia steps under the triangle for 400 and 600 yards. I'd hate to be a Taliban with ten Marines chasing me with M-16 A3 mounted with Trijicons!
Offhand accuracy at 100 yards: Trijicon wins again.
Second discussion: flash suppressor vs. muzzle brake. One area where I must give credit to my own M-4gery with the EOTech is due to its brake/compensator. Yes, the 5.56mm "mouse gun" does not have much recoil. Yes, your ten year old little sister can shoot it without crying. BUT, my muzzle brake/compensator makes a fast rifle even faster. The Trijicon with the flash suppressor was more accurate, but just a bit slower than the EOTech with the brake. The Trijicon/flash suppressor would jump off of the target just enough between semi-rapid fire shots to force you to "re-acquire" the bull on the triangle.
But my EOTech with the compensator (no holes on the bottom, for zero "muzzle flip" means that my 1moa EOTech red dot stays dead-tits on the center of the bull between shots. If the ranges allowed true rapid fire, I'm sure that's when the brake would really shine. (No 'one second per shot rule'.) With the brake you can just nail your target all the way through a magazine, with both eyes open, never ever losing your point of aim even for a nanosecond.
But with no magnification, the EOTech just could not maximize the accuracy the way the Trijicon did.
My recommendation for the deadliest combo? Put a Trijicon on top of your M-4gery, and a muzzle brake/compensator on the front. Then you will be able to attack targets like a damn sewing machine! Who needs full auto, when you can just DRILL a target at 100 yards as fast as you can shoot?
I wish I was still out west at a "free range" gravel pit where I could put this theory to the test. But our Eastern RSO's just don't like hearing 30 round mags go out in under 30 seconds.
Now, everybody enjoy. I'm going out to dinner with my wife.
A few more thoughts: If I knew I’d only be using my rifle from point blank to 200 yards, I’d say my EOTech would be great. Maybe even quicker under 100 yards with no magnification.
But from 100 to 600 yards, the Trijicon would win hands-down, no comparison. Zero. None.
And up close, there are those who say that the Trijoon acts like an “occluded eye gunsight” while you are swinging onto the target with both eyes open. That is, the left eye sees the target, the right eye sees that BRIGHT orange triangle. As you put them together and steady on target, the right eye comes into focus, and there you are, on target. I have not had a chance to test this (no free range gravel pits nearby) but it sounds like it would work.
Both are damn fine sights, but the Trijicon ACOG is hands down better.
Put a brake/comp in front, and you would have a seriously deadly off-hand running-around-and-shooting killer carbine.
Friday Night Gun Thread
The Trijicon Accupoint triangle reticle is great in hunting scopes too. I don’t buy cheap optics, but their hunting scopes will set you back about $800.
Self ping to lurk and learn....
Thanks for the ping!
By the way, the Mosin Nagant fired just fine.
I love it!
The Bindon concept does work with the Trijicon 4x32 for up close work, but if a person has a very strong dominant eye it can be a problem.
Lotsa practice solves it. It took a while for me to figure it out. But then , I have a hard head.
I’m not sure the Tijicon has BDC built in to that reticle?
Am I wrong? EOT’s do.
As you know I've got an Aimpoint. How much fun would it be to have all three platforms on the same range at the same time?
No BDC if you mean an external dial/control of the reticle. It has a series of stadia steps under the triangle for 200, 400 and 600 yards.
Good review Matt.
Informative yet simple enough for humblegunner to understand parts of it!
It would be fun. But there’s just no way the EOTech or the Aimpoint would be in the game much past 100 yards. They just wouldn’t. Fast, yes. Fast and accurate? Not like the Trijicon.
I almost feel sorry for any Talibans caught in a firefight with ACOG-equipped American troops out in the open.
Put a comp on that ACOG scoped rifle and I don’t see how you could get it any better. The only down-side to the ACOG was its flash suppressor that allowed a bit of muzzle jump between shots. My EOTech/Comp combo just has zero recoil or jump. Zero. It’s right where it was between shots. Your eye never loses the aimpoint even for a blink.
Now you're talking!
A Nagant is also fine for long range shooting.
It also works well as a tent-stake hammer, canoe paddle and CQB club.
Bullet drop compensation. sounds like it has it. good deal.
I don’t see why it wouldn’t work, for folks as you say who can use the Bindon concept.
But I would have been persona non grata at my visiting range if I’d started swinging my barrel around before shots.
At the time every one of them was spoken for by Uncle Sugar.
So now I'll put my nose to the grindstone and work until I can pay for one of them.
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