Posted on 09/27/2010 1:27:31 PM PDT by RandysRight
Nice strawman you built there -- you have to be either a statist who cares nothing for individual rights or a libertarian who only cares about individual license and to hell with everyone else.
Thankfully the Framers saw it differently when the created a Nation of laws under the Constitution. Lincoln did no differently in 1860 than Washington would have done in 1790, nor what any patriot President would do today. That is, preserve the Union under the Constitution.
It's the statists like Obama who care nothing about the Constitution and the spoiled libertarians (apparently you and others here among them) who want it their way or no way without regard for the Constitution, who are the problem.
Why don't you try Conservatisism for a change so that you can leave something worthwhile for your kids?
Ping! Another Lincoln/war thread. Enter at your own risk...
If the "valid" point being advanced raises the question.
No, it's not a recent thing.
ALL his life the science fiction writer Philip K. Dick yearned for what he called the mainstream. He wanted to be a serious literary writer, not a sci-fi hack whose audience consisted, he once said, of “trolls and wackos.” But Mr. Dick, who popped as many as 1,000 amphetamine pills a week, was also more than a little paranoid. In the early ’70s, when he had finally achieved some standing among academic critics and literary theorists — most notably the Polish writer Stanislaw Lem — he narced on them all, writing a letter to the F.B.I. in which he claimed they were K.G.B. agents trying to take over American science fiction. More...
Simple logic eludes you. No problem . . . you could frame the issue as statist versus not-so-statist, but to paint one side as “libertarian” simply is retarded.
I just bought stock in Orville Redenbacher.
Of course not. They just insisted on maintaining it after most civilized nations had abandoned the system as barbaric.
The actual conflicts between the sections that led up to the War were based not on whether slavery would be prohibited in the states where it was practiced, but rather on southern insistence they be allowed to spread it into new areas.
And what do you think Jefferson would have done?
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
BTW, the notion that Washington would have ever raised his hand against Virginia is simply laughable.
“He expanded government, ignored the USSC regularly, and would not brook any interference in prosecuting his rotten undeclared war on America.”
Is this thread about Lincoln or Obama?
Another Lincoln/war thread if you are interested....
While Jefferson had a nasty habit of saying one thing and then doing another, I believe that he would have done the right thing and held our nation together.
What would be the not-so-statist position? Lincoln invaded the South and killed three quarters of a million people in order to prevent the the Southerners from governing themselves. All in the name of some abstract notion of "union" that none of the founders would have recognized or supported. Even Hamilton denied the possibility of any state being forcibly coerced by the central government.
protip: one cannot proceed with an argument by merely ignoring his or her opponent’s postition
I think we should fight one today ... wonder how third Manassas will turn out?
Hopefully like the first two... :)
‘You don’t really believe that the Southern states invented the concept of chattel slavery, do you?’
Of course not. However, they ‘perfected’ it.
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