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Hospice Horror Stories: Health Care System Often Hastens Death, According To The Fiscal Bottom Line
RFFM.org ^ | October 24, 2010 | Daniel T. Zanoza

Posted on 10/24/2010 10:46:30 AM PDT by Daniel T. Zanoza

Hospice Care Horror Stories: Anecdotal Accounts Of How America's Health Care System Often Hastens Death, According To the Fiscal Bottom Line

Sarah Palin's Warnings About Death Panels Way Behind The Curve / Some Health Care Providers Are Literal Purveyors of Death

Note from Daniel T. Zanoza, Founder & Executive Director, RFFM.org:

Approximately two years ago, I became aware of other right to life concerns, including what is taking place in America's health care system regarding end of life issues. I wrote a story for the Illinois Family Institute, titled "Hospice, Living Wills, Futile Care: Hospice, Hospitals & Nursing Homes Have License To Kill" which was posted on October 5th, 2010 http://www.illinoisfamily.org/news/contentview.asp?c=35036.

I also submitted my column to Canada Free Press (CFP), an influential Internet blog for which I am a frequent contributor. My column is posted on CFP at this link: http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/28481

My piece related the story of how the culture of death has permeated America's health care system. The death panels former Alaskan Governor Sarah Palin warned us about regarding what was included in President Barack Obama's health care reform law have actually been in place and are entrenched in the delivery of health care services for the elderly and all Americans whose health care may now be dependent on solely economic issues. I wrote about how some hospitals, nursing homes and hospice care providers now hasten death for those who may be a drain on the fiscal bottom line.

However, in my story I made it clear that not all health care facilities are bad.

The purpose of the column was to inform the public of the dangers in a system which is quickly evolving into death factories where patients become victims, along with their loved ones, who are left with guilt and remorse.

In 20 years of writing articles and columns, I have learned the most effective means to communicate and educate the public is by sharing personal experiences...whether mine or others. Thankfully, there were those who responded to the above mentioned column and were willing to make their very personal and often tragic experiences public regarding the treatment of their loved ones by a medical system they trusted.

The comments below are not from people with an agenda. Indeed, it had to be very hard for them to relive and relate their experiences. Some of these stories literally brought me to tears. However, I'll let their words speak for themselves.

******

The following comment is from Christina Bowen and is included in my column titled Hospice, Living Wills, Futile Care: Hospice, Hospitals & Nursing Homes Have License To Kill.

I honestly believe with all my heart that if Hospice had not been in charge of my mother's care, that she would still be alive today. My mom was 70 years old and had cancer. We are well aware that this is a terminal disease, yet she was no where near the end of her life.

My mom had bone cancer in both of her upper legs. She was in a wheel chair so it was hard for her to travel. She was also on bottled oxygen. After several months of consideration she decided not to take any more chemotherapy or radiation. The only thing she needed was something to control her pain, because the cancer was not going to go away. On September the first, I took her to see her oncologist for the last time. They decided together that Hospice could provide her with the care she needed from here on out. On that day my mom was of sound mind and doing well. We left the doctor's office and went out to dinner together.

The next day the Hospice nurses came to the house for an evaluation. They took control over all of mom's medications and instructed us not to call 911 in case of an emergency. Everything from here on out was to be determined by the Hospice physician. They immediately increased her fentynol patch from 50mcg to 100mcg. They increased her oral pain medicine from 30mg of oxycodone to 100-120mg oxycodone per day.

The changes started immediately. At first she seemed to be "high". She was sleepier than normal, kind of nodding out all the time. Started being confused, loss of appetite, and had trouble swallowing. We called the Hospice nurses and reported the side effects. My sister and I were convinced that she was receiving too much pain medicine and that she might even overdose from it. They insisted that it was just a part of the final stages of life. Even though no one ever came to the house to check her out.

As time went by the side effects worsened. She started having trouble breathing, sweating, and even hallucinations. She finally went into a coma. We were on the phone with Hospice constantly trying to seek help for our mom. We knew that she was being overdosed, but again was told that it was a normal part of the death cycle.

On Sept. the 8th Hospice finally showed up at the house. Mom was in a coma and unable to take her medicines. They insisted that she was just in her final stages of life and the morphine had nothing to do with what we were seeing. They said she must continue to take her morphine, so they went to the pharmacy and ordered a liquid form to be administered. She died later that evening.

I know cancer kills people. I know that my mom was going to eventually lose her battle and die, too. But I also know that she was not there yet. She was just in pain, she wasn't dying. So in a time span of 5-6 days, our mom went from being an independent, strong willed woman, to a child like infant, and then finally just gone.

I blame myself for allowing this to happen. Looking back I know I could have done something to have prevented this. I should have followed my instincts and removed the patch, stopped the oral drugs, and took her to the hospital against their instructions. But I didn't. I let them kill my mom.

So, for anyone reading this, I beg you to please, please, think long and hard about signing a loved one up for Hospice. And make sure that you are ready to say goodbye when you do.

Christina Bowen

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Comments to Canada Free Press

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/28481

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/site/comments/hospice-living-wills-futile-care-hospice-hospitals-nursing-homes-have-licen/

We had an experience that ended somewhat differently. My mother fell and was sent to a hospital. While I wasn't there, she was released to a care center, (we still don't understand how that happened). Without our knowledge she was placed on many drugs. We watched her decline rapidly while each day she demanded she be allowed to go home. During this time she developed partial paralysis on one side leading us to conclude she had a stroke. This was not diagnosed by the doctors.

We were finally able to box them in. Some years before, she had, in writing through her lawyer, made me responsible for her care if she were ever unable to make her own decisions. In a meeting with management, we made the point that she wanted to go home. If she was competent to make that decision, they should obey her demand and release her. If she wasn't competent, I had the legal responsibility to decide her care and my decision was to let her go home. They argued for over an hour why she needed to stay and I had to threaten legal action before they finally gave in.

She has been home now for years and caring for her is a struggle, but we believe the alternative results would have been obvious and rapid. She stopped all drugs after coming home and gradually got better. She will never be the same but now she makes her own decisions on what care she will accept, (even in her nineties, she has a powerful will). We know we have her for a limited time but we chose the will of the "patient" and life over the "experts". As Christians, how could we have chosen any other path? Posted by rt on 10/07 at 09:00 PM

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We, as a nation, have been gradually indoctrinated with the various concepts that lead to death. Whether it is with abortion or end of life issues - cost vs. benefit, we are being led down a road that has no light at the end. There are proponents of ridding society of individuals who do not carry their own weight and contribute to society to a level that makes them worth keeping.

We have a right to "life". It is a gift from God. When we accept that the determination as to when our life should end should be made by someone else, we give into whatever their agenda might be. Posted by Mike Foil on 10/07 at 07:39 PM

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My heart goes out to Ms. Bowen. Something similar happened to my father. He had prostate cancer which had spread to his bones. After being fried from the radiation etc., he too was in pain, but still quite lucid. He was always a strong man physically and mentally with a heart of gold. I watched hospice turn this wonderful, witty, beautiful man into a vegetable in a matter of days. He became combative and hallucinated and after a short time his personality was unrecognizable. The father we had loved was no more. We took him to the hospital and he died a few hours later. I remember something my father said to us when he opened the box of drugs hospice gave us with the Oxycodone, etc. in it, "like opening Pandora's box huh?" How right he was! I too felt there was something I should or shouldn't have done, that it was my fault. I realize that God has the final say and we can only do the best we can with what there is to work with. If we were all doctors, we might stand a better chance of saving our families and make sure that the utmost will be done for them. Ms. Bowen, like many of us, relied on the medical profession to help her mother. How very scary things are becoming, huh! Thank you for this article and the information! Posted by j on 10/07 at 03:32 PM

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Has anyone noticed the number of times people are blaming the baby boomers for our current situation? Could this be deliberate, so that when the time comes, our children and grandchildren will feel no guilt as we are dumped in the nearest home and forgotten? They are no longer taught to respect the elderly, they are taught the elderly are stealing from them and destroying their future. Could it be the baby boomers were cheated and lied to? Are they to be held responsible when they paid into Social Security their entire working lives, only to have it looted by a crooked Congress? Yes, the boomers were conned. Yes, they made the mistake of working hard so their children wouldn't have to. They were horribly scammed by a Ponzi or Madoff government.

The end goal is to make the youth despise boomers. Until this changes and the children of this nation are taught to love and respect their elders, the sick and disabled and to realize they were fooled, just like everyone else, there is no hope for change. Life is no longer a gift, it has become a cost ratio and a burden. Posted by PJPony on 10/07 at 07:29 AM

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I worked in the healthcare field for over 35 years and know for a fact that this goes on with hospice. I have seen it over and over again. But, I do know there are families who grow tired of caring for sick elderly parents and just wants the end to come . I also know from personal experience that I would not except any part of hospice care. My husband was real sick 4 years ago and went from 190 pounds to 125 pounds in a few months while in the hospital. When the time came for his discharge they wanted him placed in a nursing home under hospice care. I told them no. The doctor got mad and hung up the phone on me. To make a long story short my husband is doing great now. Has gained weight and is able to care for himself. He has enjoyed 4 years of life that he would not have had if I had placed him under hospice care. Posted by Norma Hughes on 10/07 at 06:50 AM

RELATED ARTICLES:

Some Hospice Care Providers Enforcing State-Sanctioned Euthanasia Through Illinois Probate Courts by Daniel T. Zanoza posted on August 13, 2010 at http://rffm.typepad.com/republicans_for_fair_medi/2010/08/some-hospice-care-providers-enforcing-state-sanctioned-euthanasia-through-probate-courts.html

The following series of columns related to end of life issues were posted on RFFM.org in 2008 and written by:

Bill Beckman, Executive Director, Illinois Right to Life Committee: http://www.illinoisrighttolife.org

Stephen Bloom, a Christian Attorney at Law and an expert on living wills http://www.istherealawyerinthechurch.com/ and

Daniel Zanoza, Executive Director, RFFM.org

Part I The Myth Of Living Wills: You Are Actually Signing Your Life Away by Bill Beckman posted August 11, 2008 at http://rffm.typepad.com/republicans_for_fair_medi/2008/08/the-myth-of-living-wills.html

Part II How a Living Will can bring about your premature death by Bill Beckman posted on August 12, 2008 at http://rffm.typepad.com/republicans_for_fair_medi/2008/08/how-a-living-will-can-bring-about-your-premature-death.html

Part III Futile Care--Knowing What It Is May Save Your Life Or The Life Of A Loved One by Bill Beckman posted August 13, 2008 at http://rffm.typepad.com/republicans_for_fair_medi/2008/08/part-iii-futile-care--knowing-what-it-is-may-save-your-life-or-the-life-of-a-loved-one.html

Part IV Research on "brain dead" and "almost dead" patients declared "ethical" by Bill Beckman posted August 14, 2008 at http://rffm.typepad.com/republicans_for_fair_medi/2008/08/part-iv-research-on-brain-dead-and-almost-dead-patients-declared-ethical.html

Part V Choose Hospice Care Provider Carefully: Using Hospice Care To Hasten Death Declared "Ethical" by Bill Beckman posted August 15, 2008 at http://rffm.typepad.com/republicans_for_fair_medi/2008/08/part-v-choose-hospice-care-provider-carefully-using-hospice-care-to-hasten-death-declared-ethical.html

Part VI Some Hospice Care Providers Hasten Death Through Use Of Morphine Overdoses + Other Means? by Bill Beckman posted on August 16, 2008 at http://rffm.typepad.com/republicans_for_fair_medi/2008/08/part-vi-some-hospice-care-providers-hasten-death.html

Part VII Culture Of Death Taking Toll On Those Nearing Life's End: Overview -- by Daniel T. Zanoza posted on August 17, 2008 at http://rffm.typepad.com/republicans_for_fair_medi/2008/08/part-vii-culture-of-death-taking-toll-on-those-nearing-lifes-end.html

"Living Will" Becomes a License to Kill: The Horror Goes On In 2008 by Bill Beckman posted on August 18, 2008 at http://rffm.typepad.com/republicans_for_fair_medi/2008/08/living-will-becomes-a-license-to-kill.html

Living Wills: Signing Your Own Death Warrant? A Christian Lawyer’s Perspective by Stephen Bloom posted on August 19, 2008 at http://rffm.typepad.com/republicans_for_fair_medi/2008/08/living-wills-signing-your-own-death-warrant-a-christian-lawyers-perspective.html

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TOPICS: Business/Economy; Health/Medicine; Society
KEYWORDS: abortion; cultureofdeath; deathpanels; hospicecare; obamacare; zerocare

1 posted on 10/24/2010 10:46:36 AM PDT by Daniel T. Zanoza
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

A hospice nurse was determined that my mom “go out” on her shift. She could have done it legally the way the script was written. Only because the nurse going off shift alerted us (and the VNA person in charge of sending MORE meds to the house thought it was unnecessary) was this woman stopped and removed from the home. Mom left this earth at God’s calling the next morning.
We filed a formal complaint - but it is peer review - and the script saved her license.
There are many horror stories out there - it will only get worse!


2 posted on 10/24/2010 10:55:57 AM PDT by RebelTXRose
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza
I think this is a bit of a tough issue (at least for me). I'm opposed to assisted suicide. I think some folks who fly off to Switzerland are just depressed or feel "ready to go". Some may be sick, but they may have years to live with proper treatment. I think that no doctor should kill people who knock on the door and say "Can you do me a favor?"

Now, in the US, we have hospices. In theory, a hospice is for someone who is at death's door. The hospital has done what it can, and there is no longer any real point to being in the ICU. Perhaps it's best to go home, be with family, and just pass on. In our modern society, that's about the most "natural" way anyone can die.

However, there is the matter of pain management. No one wants to see a loved one in pain, so when the hospice people start the morphine drip, it just seems like a kindness. What could be wrong?

Well, in my experience, hospice ends up amounting to assisted suicide. The morphine drip is increased day by day until it affects the breathing, and the patient dies. It almost seems like policy.

Maybe, if the patient really is going anyway, then this is a painless way to go. But I have a hard time with it. I think the medical establishment really is killing people in America.

3 posted on 10/24/2010 11:01:21 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza
Total, typical anti-Hospice BS.

The woman writing the first complaining paragraph would rather her mother live in excruciating bone cancer pain, than live pain-free in her final days.

People are born. People live. People die. Accept it.

So she was not a lucid as the daughter wanted her to be. She was pain free. Does this woman respect the concept of quality of life?

I have interviewed a number of family members who objected to hospice care. In every case, they were the sons and daughters who had ignored their parents and grandparents most of their adult life, but then objected when that parent exercised their freedom to die pain free.

4 posted on 10/24/2010 11:14:10 AM PDT by MindBender26 (Fighting the "con" in Conservatism on FR since 1998.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Let me tell you something that I know about first hand.When your spouse is laying in bed gasping for air like a fish out of water, and a drip of morphine calms their breathing to where they die peacfuly instead of a violent gasp, then come back and talk to me about it. In todays medical world we can virtualy keep a body alive with machines to the point where the body itself is doing very little to stay alive.Hospitals are required to administer any and all life saving procedures unless the patient or gaurdian has signed a DNR, at that point the body is left to die on it’s own naturaly and if a simple drip of morphine makes it a peaceful departure instead of a violent one, tell me why shouldn’t it be used.


5 posted on 10/24/2010 11:14:28 AM PDT by eastforker (Visit me at http://www.eastforker.com)
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

My mother had surgery when she was 84. During surgery, she had a major stroke and could no longer get around on her own. We put her in a nursing home for recovery. The nursing home, eventually, suggested that we move her into the regular nursing part of the home where they wanted her to stay. My mother couldn’t get around on her own but was mentally sharp. She wouldn’t say anything but I could tell that she hated the idea. We eventually moved her into a families home where she could be with her grand daughter, greatgrand son and great, greatgrand son.

The nursing home didn’t like this idea and the nursing home doctor said that she couldn’t be moved. I told them I wanted a second opinion and they changed their minds. My mother lasted another two years before she passed on, but was totally happy. In the nursing home, my mother knew that she would be lonely and alone. We didn’t want that.

It’s not easy taking care of someone like this but we figured that it wasn’t easy for her to raise us either. Now it was our turn to take care of her. Having her in our homes again was amazing. You wouldn’t believe the love that will over ride the job. Think twice, three times, before placing anyone in a nursing home.


6 posted on 10/24/2010 11:17:27 AM PDT by RC2
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To: MindBender26

You hit the nail on the head with what you said. The other scenario is a guilt complex some people have that they were the ones that “pulled the trigger”.


7 posted on 10/24/2010 11:19:00 AM PDT by eastforker (Visit me at http://www.eastforker.com)
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

GET A WILL TO LIVE AT THE FOLLOWING SITE:

http://www.nrlc.org/euthanasia/willtolive/docs/new%20york.rev0309.pdf

It’s better than a Living Will, and has one for each state.


8 posted on 10/24/2010 11:20:54 AM PDT by kitkat (OBAMA hates us. Well, maybe a LOT of Kenyans do.)
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

Anyone truly interested in this topic should read “The Nazi Doctors” by Robert J. Lifton.


9 posted on 10/24/2010 11:22:05 AM PDT by Slyfox
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To: RebelTXRose

I have been shouting this for years after the experience we had with my stepfather.
It would have been repeated with my mother last winter but I knew the tactics they would use and I would not back down. They would have “killed” her with over medication in early Nov. Instead she was alert and able to visit with family through Christmas and the New Year, dying at home early in Jan.
I have filed a complaint with the hospital, a well known and highly respected teaching facility.


10 posted on 10/24/2010 11:24:05 AM PDT by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: RC2

Good for you.


11 posted on 10/24/2010 11:31:05 AM PDT by Dubya (JESUS SAVES)
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To: Dubya

A hosp. killed my Mother. Because the Drs saidher care was eating up their tax money


12 posted on 10/24/2010 11:34:12 AM PDT by Dubya (JESUS SAVES)
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To: MindBender26

I share the sentiment of this author based on my experience. You make a ridiculous statement about hospice being some sort of all knowing, all wonderful entity as if it can do no wrong.

The author here reflects how her mother rapidly went from fully functioning independent one day to heavily medicated and out of it the next day, and dead a week later. I agree this may be a case of overmedication. We are dealing with sensitive issues here and you wildly make judgment about it being anti hospice. In my case, I was deeply troubled by the experience where each and every question and each visit just turned into a ‘turn up the meds’ response. I have read quite a bit about this type of situation and it does seem to be standard policy. We can’t operate like hospice is right just because it is hospice, and more than the common outlook that the government is always going to do what’s right.


13 posted on 10/24/2010 11:34:38 AM PDT by ilgipper
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To: eastforker

Okay, okay. For your case okay, absolutely. Tortured death throes can be managed by modern drips. But, go into the hospital and before you see a “doctor” there, you get the Hospice pusher. This is before any death throes, but you’re barely checked into your room at the hospital. Your doctor does not come to visit you but some retired doctor, maybe 70ish, called a “hospitalist”, who drugs you so well, you are hustled off to Hospice within days. A total racket. Big money. Like no drug enforcement. More drugs, more drug rehabs. Big money. No rehab figures that amount to anything. Outrageous.


14 posted on 10/24/2010 11:38:13 AM PDT by RitaOK
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza
Terri Schiavo is a classic example of the out of control nursing home/hospice industry.
Terri was costing the hospice center a fortune because she did not qualify for Medicare or Medicaid and she was burning thru the legal settlement .
So they decided to cut their losses quickly .
BY the way ,Her husband's lawyer was a on the hospice board of directors too.

My father cancer alerted me to who aggressive these hospitals/hospices systems are .
The hospice kept harassing my step mom about letting them in the door.
I finally called this place and warned them I was going to contact state licensing board and Medicare if they continued to harass my family.
These vultures who were desperate to fill a empty hospice bed as well to get my family to switch their Medicare coverage to that Medicare hospice coverage ( a big mistake by the way).
By the way, ,my father passed away two years later at home in his bed.

15 posted on 10/24/2010 11:39:32 AM PDT by ncalburt (Get Even on Election Day)
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To: RC2

***Now it was our turn to take care of her.***

Which is why you are not shouting and pointing fingers of blame.

There is so much guilt, inadequacy and sometimes greed about end of life arrangements for elderly family members. Physicians, not caregivers are authorized to administer treatment; which should be discussed and questioned in detail by the family member responsible for making decisions.

With so many advances in medicine to prolong/extend life - we must become informed and prepared to handle drug reactions and complications. Many elderly people are having surgical procedures well past prior life-expectancy. It’s expensive and not without risk of complications or death. Be thankful for the extra days of life, that they are pain-free and peaceful.


16 posted on 10/24/2010 11:39:42 AM PDT by sodpoodle (Despair; man's surrender. Laughter; God's redemption.)
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To: MindBender26; Daniel T. Zanoza
People are born. People live. People die. Accept it.

Cool. Can I decide when you die?

17 posted on 10/24/2010 11:46:51 AM PDT by Grizzled Bear (Does not play well with others)
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To: RitaOK

I was not refered to a hospice care giver until I requested it after a discusion with my wife and her doctor.The hospice care people were wonderfull in getting all equipment needed for her comfort here at home, the medical nurse and hygene nurses were very profesional.24 hour phone access for any questions needing answers. Immediate response when she died.I think the level of care depends on what state you live in. I was very grateful for them.


18 posted on 10/24/2010 11:47:31 AM PDT by eastforker (Visit me at http://www.eastforker.com)
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To: ilgipper
The author here reflects how her mother rapidly went from fully functioning independent one day to heavily medicated and out of it the next day, and dead a week later. I agree this may be a case of overmedication.

Our intellectual superiors want to drug boys instead of dealing with the fact that they behave like boys. Why shouldn't they drug old people, too?

When someone is a problem, just medicate them until they aren't.

19 posted on 10/24/2010 11:52:56 AM PDT by Grizzled Bear (Does not play well with others)
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To: ClearCase_guy

My mother died of cancer 9 years ago and we had hospice for the last 6 weeks or so.

They were absolutely great! They did not intentionally dose her meds to end her life sooner. In fact, it would have been humane to have given her more meds during the last 12 hours of her life, even if it would have ended her life a few hours sooner. Cancer is a rough way to go and the last hours are torture.


20 posted on 10/24/2010 12:00:37 PM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

Been there, done that with three close relatives.

It is assisted suicide, without question. One can wrestle with the moral argument all you want, but we have it here now, and have had it for a very long time.

Along with relieving pain, and relieving the sick of consciousness by-and-large, morphine depresses respiration until you die.

The hospice system, in my opinion only, is set up for a couple of reasons. One is a delivery system for morphine, another is to help loved ones of the sick through some of the more difficult parts of caring for the terminally sick, and another is to keep doctors a step away from the process.

If a doctor is administering toxic doses of morphine, it’s a violation of the Hippocratic Oath besides being a liability issue. When nurses do it, they are just doing their job.

I’ve got mixed feelings about the hospice process, but it’s better than dying in a hospital - and was the rational choice of 3 loved ones.


21 posted on 10/24/2010 12:14:59 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

This is indeed a very tricky issue.

I think it is important for a FAMILY MEMBER to be in charge of medication and be the ultimate boss, NOT the doctor.

My beloved grandmother-in-law, in Europe, was 94 and at the end of her long, full life, in a retirement home, and she was suffering from some kind of pneumonia. Breathing was hard, she was coughing a lot, and in her sleep, she was choking. It was HELL for family members to see her lying there gasping.

The doctor decided to up her morphine just to remove some of her pain and discomfort. I think everyone knew that it would cause her to relax so much that she might not be breathing a whole lot longer. This proved to be true — I do not think she lived 24 hours from that point. Every family member felt this was the best thing. This was not assisted suicide as far as the FAMILY knew and the family did approve of the doctor upping the meds to increase the comfort of a beautiful old woman.

We will never know for sure his intent, and we don’t need to. She went to heaven and she was better off for it. It was definitely her time to go.


22 posted on 10/24/2010 12:22:11 PM PDT by Yaelle (We need a Comprehensive Congress Reform!)
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To: sodpoodle

Bingo. Someone needs to have Power of Attorney, to make the medication decisions. LEARN about the medications; get second opinions. Quality of life is huge. This story makes it sound like Mama was in great spirits and alert, but was drugged into a coma. That is inexcusable.

There should be a competent, loving, logical person weighing the decision of dosing enough to cover pain and low enough to allow quality function if it’s in reach for the patient.


23 posted on 10/24/2010 12:30:30 PM PDT by Yaelle (We need a Comprehensive Congress Reform!)
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

placemark


24 posted on 10/24/2010 1:29:30 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM (Liberalism is infecund.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
As a nurse who worked sometime on the cancer floor in the hospital, the amount of pain meds. depends on the patients pain level....most oncologists will order medication to keep the patient comfortable even if it means overdose of the patient.....to withhold pain meds when needed is a crime as far as I am concerned.

I have seen patients that have such large doses of narcotics that would kill you or me and it just allows them enough pain relief to be able to walk the halls....The tolerance to narcotics makes upping the dose a normal thing.

If I were terminal, I wouldn't want pain meds to be withheld just because the doctor or nurse were afraid it might hasten my death...

It a line that all doctors that deal with cancer patients have to work on.....

The intent is relief not death, death is the outcome of keeping someone terminal in a lot of pain or giving them some relief...

I vote for relief of pain....for many the pain can be unbearable...

25 posted on 10/24/2010 1:29:39 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: Grizzled Bear
Can you decide when I will die?

No, but I will.

Read the article again.

My mom had bone cancer in both of her upper legs. She was in a wheel chair so it was hard for her to travel. She was also on bottled oxygen. After several months of consideration she decided not to take any more chemotherapy or radiation.

HER MOTHER MADE A CLEAR AND CONCIOUS DECISION TO DISCONTINUE MEDICAL CARE THAT WAS NOT WORKIING

The only thing she needed was something to control her pain, because the cancer was not going to go away.

HE MOTHER WANTED PAIN CONTROL BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY WERE NOT GOING TO DEFEAT THE CANCER.

On September the first, I took her to see her oncologist for the last time. They decided together that Hospice could provide her with the care she needed from here on out. On that day my mom was of sound mind and doing well.

ON THAT DAY, HER MOTHER WAS OF SOUND MIND, WAS IN PAIN. SHE AND HER CANCER DOCTOR AGREED THAT FURTHER CANCER-FIGHTING TREATMENT WAS USELESS AND HOSPICE WOULD PROVIDE THE PAIN-CONTROL CARE. SHE WAS “DOING WELL,” BUT SHE WAS ALSO DYING AND EVERYONE HAD AGREED THE CANCER HAD WON, IT WAS SOON GOING TO KILL HER.

Since her mother was of sound mind when she made her medical decisions, who is the daughter to interfere/

Finally, the comment that had Hospice not been involved, her mother would be alive today. With all respect to the daughter, does she forget about the cancer?

Pray her mother is NOT alive, facing the intractable agony of terminal bone cancer pain.

26 posted on 10/24/2010 1:58:23 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Fighting the "con" in Conservatism on FR since 1998.)
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To: ilgipper
Please never be so foolish as to misquote me.... or assume you understand my sentiments.

It's very simply. The woman was dying. Bone cancer kills very quickly.... and very painfully.

The mother, “of sound mind,” and her doctor decided after a course of radiation and chemotherapy, that further treatment would not cure the cancer. That treatment in itself is wretched.

The mother certainly had the right to chose palliative care, over continued ineffective treatment.

Who is the daughter to tell her she can't?

27 posted on 10/24/2010 2:03:22 PM PDT by MindBender26 (Fighting the "con" in Conservatism on FR since 1998.)
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To: goat granny

My mother had 4th stage breast cancer. It had spread to her brain and after radiation she was failing. They assured us her cancer was not active but that she was just giving up. Then the oncologist recommended hospice so I could get more help in the home and the meds would all be “free”.
The first day the hospice nurse visited she asked my mother if she was in pain, my mother said yes. The nurse asked no further questions but began telling me what meds to give. The next day my mother was so out of it she barely recognized I was present. Two days later she appeared to have pneumonia and I revoked hospice and had her taken to the hospital. My brother was on his way home to the States from military deployment and I knew my mother’s greatest wish was to see him.

When admitted to the ER she was so out of it she had no idea where she was or what was happening. I explained that my brother was in the air flying home and would be here the following AM and that I wanted him to have a warm hand to hold and to be able to say anything he needed to say to her whether she understood or not. This meant everything to her and my brother!
The ER dr said he understood, that this happened “all the time” and that he would do his best. However I was called on the phone by the oncologist on duty and berated by her for seeking medical treatment for my mother. Her parting shot was “take the poor woman home and let her go”. Funny thing is that while I spent time arguing with the oncologist about the admission, the drugs hospice had my mother on WORE OFF! Five hours after admission to the ER she was sitting up in bed talking to me and understood that my brother was on his way. The Er dr was amazed at the transformation but my eyes were opened to the fact that she was being over-medicated.
The next morning when my brother and I walked into her room she was sitting up eating breakfast. At the sight of my brother she clasped her hands and said “thank you God!”. Her pain it turned out was not caused by the cancer but because she had no meat on her bones and her butt hurt where the bones were pressing into the skin. The hospice nurse never asked any questions about source of nor did she evaluate level of the pain.
She did however show up at the hospital and started in about pain meds and the need to use them for pain. My brother and I were furious. We would never have denied the medications she needed, but she did not need what that nurse was pushing! I fired that hospice and chose another. By this time I knew the questions to ask and had the strength and courage to tell them what we expected. My mother was awake, alert, pain free and able to spend Christmas with her family around her, eating her favorite pumpkin pie. She passed away in early Jan having an extra two months because I fought for her.

I warn everyone to be careful with hospice. Get involved and ask questions particularly when the discussion turns to medications. Make sure a proper evaluation of pain level is done. Be the advocate for your patient, question everything. The death panels are already here.

This is not the first bad experience my family have had with hospice. My mother feared hosoice becasue of what they had done to my stepfather. I’ve told that story here before.


28 posted on 10/24/2010 2:26:53 PM PDT by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: kalee
I am so sorry your mother and your family had such a bad experience. Its tough enough when a family member has a disease such as cancer...

You are right on the fact that people should not be afraid to ask questions and demand answers. You also have the right to refuse a treatment if you want to...

When my father was in the hospital with leukemia they wanted to give him a blood transfusion, and I was with him when the intern came in and told him.....

He told my he didn't want the transfusion, I went to the desk and inform the intern no transfusion, my father wanted to refuse....this is where you have to stand your ground....

The intern said the transfusion was ordered by his doctor, I said too bad, it was being refused...the intern called the doctor and I talked with him on the phone and explained my fathers desires on the subject....the transfusion was canceled.....His prognosis was life span of 10 days to 6 weeks (acute leukemia, when he went into the hospital for colon cancer operation, his blood work was hinky and it took quite a few days to get an accurate diagnosis of acute leukemia) at 85 the idea of chemo for the leukemia before he could have surgery for the colon cancer was not something he wanted...the chemo itself would have killed him probably)

He came to my house by ambulance and lived 10 days from the day of diagnosis until he died....No patient gives up their rights to refuse treatment even if the treatment is for their own good according to the doctor...

All things are measured by patients if they are not afraid to question the why, how and when of any treatment...

Again, your experience certainly added grief to your situation..I am glad your mother and her son got to see each other, you did the right thing in taking the situation into your own hands....good for you..

This is a lesson to other freepers that may have to face the same situation....ask questions and the patient has the right to refuse or even leave the hospital....

My father at another time left a hospital because he didn't want what the doctor wanted....sometimes you have to sign an discharge AMA. It stands for Against Medical Advise and actually protects the hospital from having a patient say he was told to leave...

You had the courage many don't in dealing with medical problems.....you did good girl...:O)

29 posted on 10/24/2010 3:22:56 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza; dalebert; ohioWfan

AMMO LIST: OBAMACARE’s WAR ON SENIORS & BUSINESS
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2613747/posts

Socialized Medicine Round Up thread
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2613678/posts


30 posted on 10/24/2010 4:44:20 PM PDT by GailA (obamacare paid for by cuts & taxes on most vulnerable Veterans, retired Military, disabled & Seniors)
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

dealing with this now...think i am in a war zone.


31 posted on 10/24/2010 6:55:44 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

There’s a misperception that pain medication kills people in hospice. While it does put them into a drug induced coma, it is not the agent that kills them. They die from the disease that was killing them anyway, but without the agony of the pain from the disease.

Two years ago, the hospice in Rock Hill, S.C. was a godsend for my dad and his family. My dad lived an active life up until two weeks before he died. As with so many people now after heart attacks, his congestive heart failure eventually could no longer be mitigated with diuretics and other drugs. After a week in the hospital, the doctors said that there was nothing more that could be done for him.

The last week of his life was in a hospice where his lungs gradually filled with fluid and he would have suffered the agony of drowning to death slowly over a course of several days. Instead, morphine was increased as he showed any signs of distress until eventually he was in a drug induced coma. He finally drowned to death without feeling any pain.


32 posted on 10/24/2010 8:07:41 PM PDT by catnipman
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To: RitaOK

I am seeing more and more families who come in with stories of ill family members resting comfortably in hospitals and hospice, who have drips of morphine increased and rapid deaths. The family memebers do not recognize until after then death, that their beloved had been euthanized like a dog.

Then they are terribly guilty and upset.

I would not send my dog to a hospice or a hospital if they were dying. I would never leave a family member at the hosptial alone ever. Death is considered the best answer for most of the frail elderly.

Choose the people who care for you in old age carefully.


33 posted on 11/19/2010 7:48:52 PM PST by Chickensoup (In the Leftist protected species hierarchy, Islamics trump Homosexuals trump Women trump Blacks)
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To: goat granny

I vote for relief of pain....for many the pain can be unbearable

I agree, but some people are being dosed while comatose.


34 posted on 11/19/2010 7:55:22 PM PST by Chickensoup (In the Leftist protected species hierarchy, Islamics trump Homosexuals trump Women trump Blacks)
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To: Daniel T. Zanoza

Thanks for the thread & the article referenced.

My mom died Oct 10 AT HOME..after I cared for her here as an invalid for 18 years. As a former Hospice & Hospital chaplain I knew that her wishes to be at home etc were extremely valid & I am so grateful I was able to honor this wish.

Now it is much worse than it was then. I will be the first to admit much depends on the individual docs/nurses.. but they rotate & are overtaxed. Finding an ombudsmen for your family member is a joke. I was on the Bio-ethical committee & the horror stories there are beyond the pale. Always the first consideration was “does the person have insurance & HOW MUCH”. Treatment choices went from there.

Yes, no hospital can refuse treatment, but WHAT treatment?

Well, I gave up a lot of years of my life goals & plans but it was the right thing to do.

and yes, the house is empty & lonely now


35 posted on 11/20/2010 3:44:44 AM PST by DollyCali (Don't tell God how big your storm is... tell your storm how BIG your God is!)
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To: MindBender26

Although this post has been here for quite some time now and may not even be viewed anymore I still feel compelled to reply. I actually want to clarify something. I never said that I’d rather for my mom to be alive and in horrible pain than to be gone to an eternal resting place of peace. As a matter of fact even though she was highly medicated she still complained of pain. So she wasn’t pain free during the end. My point was this...when SHE signed up for hospice, SHE did not know that SHE was signing her death certificate. Yes, her cancer was terminal eventually. Yes, we all knew she was going to die someday in the near future. But none of us (including her) knew that hospice was going to intentionally overdose her and treat us like we were uneducated idiots that wouldn’t know the difference. I felt like we were mislead and that if she had known that this was going to happen then maybe she wouldn’t have made the same choice. I guess we will never know. I always supported my mother’s decisions whether I agreed with them or not. She knew what was best for her, not me. Of course I loved her and I wanted to hold on to her as long as possible. But I’m not selfish and I did respect her wishes, ALWAYS!!! I realize every case is different, and I just wanted anyone else having to make the same decisions to be aware of the things they don’t tell you. OUR experience was no different than legalized euthanasia.


36 posted on 02/22/2014 2:52:28 PM PST by CGBowen
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