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TSA Harasses 9-yo Boy and Other Train Passengers After Their Trip
Gizmodo (link from Drudge) ^ | 23 Feb 11 | Jesus Diaz

Posted on 02/24/2011 11:11:56 AM PST by seanmerc

After going down in a spiral of paranoid stupidity—called out for saving body scan images, ridiculed for patting down an almost-naked woman or nailed for harrassing a kid at airport security—the TSA has reached a new low. It's surreal.

Here's what a traveler recorded on February 13, after his train trip to Savannah:

The only bad thing on our trip was [the] TSA at the Savannah train station. There were about 14 agents pulling people inside the building and coralling everyone in a roped area after you got off the train. This made no sense! Poor family in front of us! 9-year old getting patted down and wanded. They groped our people too and were very unprofessional. I am all about security, but when have you ever been harassed and felt up getting off a plane? Shouldn't they be doing that getting on? And they wonder why so many people are mad at them.

(Excerpt) Read more at gizmodo.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Politics; Travel
KEYWORDS: abuseofpower; savannah; stripsearch; tsa; tsaperevs; tsapervs; tsasavannah
Wake up, people!
1 posted on 02/24/2011 11:11:59 AM PST by seanmerc
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To: seanmerc

The public loves their Obama TV and TSA is his goon squad. Americans traded liberty for a TV click and HD TV. Fox Alwaleed is no better.


2 posted on 02/24/2011 11:16:22 AM PST by Frantzie (HD TV - Total Brain-washing now in High Def. 3-D Coming soon)
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To: seanmerc

Apparently there have been reports of people stealing ash trays.


3 posted on 02/24/2011 11:18:06 AM PST by RobRoy (The US Today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: seanmerc
We are being trained to follow the orders of those in authority.

If the rules made sense, the fact that we were following the rules would not mean much. They would not have proof that we were docile and easily led.

But, if the rules are stupid and illogical -- then, if we followed them anyway -- then our masters would know for sure that we were mere sheep and they could do with us as they will.

4 posted on 02/24/2011 11:18:10 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: seanmerc
Wake up, people!

And do what?
We've been "awake" since Christmas. We've stopped flying, if we absolutely HAVE to we route through airports that don't have scanners and we wear sweats on the plane to give them little reason to harass us.
We've written letters to the airlines, Congress, no one cares, no one responds.
What do you suggest?

5 posted on 02/24/2011 11:18:35 AM PST by grobdriver (Proud Member, Party Of No! No Socialism - No Fascism - Nobama - No Way!)
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To: seanmerc
These TSA agents should be handed a shovel, a canteen filled with water and an assigned section of the Mexican border to patrol. If they would harass illegal border crosses with the same enthusiasm they exhibited in harassing the American traveling public, we would have a secure border overnight.
6 posted on 02/24/2011 11:20:01 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: seanmerc

The comments from some of the readers at the link seem to indicate assent and even surprise that the search after disembarking the train was thought a big deal by anyone at all. One must wonder nowadays whether those comments are from actual people or simply the interactive media products of managed accounts of a pro-government contracted firm.


7 posted on 02/24/2011 11:20:54 AM PST by Coyote Choir
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To: seanmerc

The best way to travel unaccosted by the TSA is to put on Muslim garb.


8 posted on 02/24/2011 11:24:10 AM PST by 353FMG
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To: Coyote Choir

Why is search upon deboarding a huge deal? Is it not possible that LE/HS agents had some specific information they were acting upon?

The hysteria is uncalled for.

I can think of many scenarios in which searching deboarding passengers would not only be appropriate but essential.

Anyone who thinks security is only about when the conveyance is underway hasn’t thought through the process very well.


9 posted on 02/24/2011 11:38:19 AM PST by fightinJAG (TAXPAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE)
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To: fightinJAG

You may not search someone without a warrant whose only motive is to enter into the public domain!

What a great way to put the last nail into Amtrak’s coffin!


10 posted on 02/24/2011 11:42:05 AM PST by catman67
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To: seanmerc

What if the people refused to be searched and groped? Would they have been arrested?


11 posted on 02/24/2011 11:42:33 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: grobdriver

Glad you stopped flying! Please keep it up and do your best to persuade others to do the same.

I have gone from 120+ flights per year for 26+ years to ZERO in the last 6.

The last six months I am retired but I went so far as to drive from Western New York to Dallas and back rather than fly for business.

I will not set foot on another airplane until my 4th Amendment rights are restored and the TSA is privatized and resorts to PROFILING! It is the logical thing to do.


12 posted on 02/24/2011 11:44:46 AM PST by Wurlitzer (Welcome to the new USSA (United Socialist States of Amerika))
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To: All
Amtrak passenger pulled off train in Colorado for alleged terrorist threats

So what if passengers were not able to see the man's face, but they heard him say he had a bomb he was taking to the next stop, would it be okay for LE/HS to search passengers upon deboarding?

What if a passenger called the police and said he was carrying a geiger counter for a research assignment and it went off while he was walking down the aisle of the train? Would it be okay to search the deboarding passengers then?

All I'm saying is get a clue that LE/HS probably didn't do this randomly. They had some information that led to a passenger search.

13 posted on 02/24/2011 11:47:46 AM PST by fightinJAG (TAXPAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE)
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To: seanmerc

We’ll be going back to the days when everyone just stayed within their own community and rarely, if ever, ventured much beyond that. Too costly and too much of a hassle.

Maybe that’s what *they* want.


14 posted on 02/24/2011 11:48:14 AM PST by MichaelCorleone (Sarah Palin is America's Margaret Thatcher)
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To: fightinJAG

Homeland security has passed out grants to transit systems nationwide to introduce screening way beyond the airports. This is part and parcel of concern about European and MiddleEastern style bus and rail transit bombings.

Sounds good right? Better to be prepared right?

Except for one problem. Americans ain’t European or Middle Eastern. And they don’t bomb bus and train stations. Now Muslims,,,now they are not Americans because they don’t assimilate or accept the Constitution as the ultimate secular authority.

And Muslims do bomb trains and subways and recently one tried to bomb Time Square.

Homeland Secutity does not look for potentential bombers, they terroize innocent Americans.

So they are the terroists now right.

The TSA is not worth the money spent on it and should be disbanded and reformed based on proper principals of cause and effect.

You, having already drunk the kool-aid will never understand that. As a sheep you are already over the cliff and we Americans have no real use for you. Jump if you must but jump alone and jump quietly.

I think you get it now, well acutually there is no way you will...sad, brain dead at your age.

The Big Boo


15 posted on 02/24/2011 11:51:38 AM PST by The Big Boo (Lone Wolf M/C)
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To: catman67
You may not search someone without a warrant whose only motive is to enter into the public domain!

Wrong. The legality of a search is not based on the motive of the person being searched.

If LE/HS agents had legally appropriate information that made a search of deboarding passengers appropriate, the search is legal. That is all.

You want to put a nail in Amtrak's coffin, let a terrorist attack go down, either on a train or by a passenger using the train to transport either himself or his weapons.

16 posted on 02/24/2011 11:51:43 AM PST by fightinJAG (TAXPAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE)
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To: fightinJAG

Homeland security has passed out grants to transit systems nationwide to introduce screening way beyond the airports. This is part and parcel of concern about European and MiddleEastern style bus and rail transit bombings.

Sounds good right? Better to be prepared right?

Except for one problem. Americans ain’t European or Middle Eastern. And they don’t bomb bus and train stations. Now Muslims,,,now they are not Americans because they don’t assimilate or accept the Constitution as the ultimate secular authority.

And Muslims do bomb trains and subways and recently one tried to bomb Time Square.

Homeland Secutity does not look for potentential bombers, they terroize innocent Americans.

So they are the terroists now right.

The TSA is not worth the money spent on it and should be disbanded and reformed based on proper principals of cause and effect.

You, having already drunk the kool-aid will never understand that. As a sheep you are already over the cliff and we Americans have no real use for you. Jump if you must but jump alone and jump quietly.

I think you get it now, well acutually there is no way you will...sad, brain dead at your age.

The Big Boo


17 posted on 02/24/2011 11:51:44 AM PST by The Big Boo (Lone Wolf M/C)
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To: The Big Boo
You, having already drunk the kool-aid will never understand that. As a sheep you are already over the cliff and we Americans have no real use for you. Jump if you must but jump alone and jump quietly.

I think you get it now, well acutually there is no way you will...sad, brain dead at your age.

You're funny!

18 posted on 02/24/2011 11:55:42 AM PST by fightinJAG (TAXPAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE)
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To: fightinJAG
What if ...

Why don't you just move to a country, like Tunisia, where your ideas of proper police procedure are appreciated. Maybe you can get shoot at citizens then!

They believe they are removing threats too. You'd agree they should shoot, wouldn't you?

In any case, this AMERICAN, ain't putting up with such general searches. I've stood up to them before, I will again.

In AMERICA you have to show you have specific cause to search that specific person, unless martial law has been declared.

19 posted on 02/24/2011 11:55:49 AM PST by bvw
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To: MichaelCorleone

I know we think twice before traveling now. It’s just a hassle.


20 posted on 02/24/2011 11:56:57 AM PST by fightinJAG (TAXPAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE)
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To: seanmerc

Wait until we have high speed rail and there is a TSA security checkpoint at every train station.


21 posted on 02/24/2011 11:57:31 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: bvw

I said nothing about the scope of the search. I was responding to the hysteria that there should never be searches of deboarding passengers at all, simply because they’re . . . deboarding rather than boarding?

That’s just not well-founded.

But the hysteria continues. Bringing up there might be situations where deboarding passengers should be searched — again, without commenting on the scope of that search — has gotten me two freepers telling me to drop dead, go to Tunesia, etc.

That’s embarrassing. And not for me.

Good day.


22 posted on 02/24/2011 12:00:41 PM PST by fightinJAG (TAXPAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE)
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To: seanmerc

Don’t want to get groped by TSA when you get OFF a flight? Then NEVER, EVER fly back to Atlanta from an international destination! The airport is set up in such a screwy way that people flying back from anywhere in the world go through a more rigorous screening coming home than they did when they left the USA in the first place.


23 posted on 02/24/2011 12:02:40 PM PST by madprof98 ("moritur et ridet" - salvianus)
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To: fightinJAG

Don’t drop dead, just grow up.


24 posted on 02/24/2011 12:03:18 PM PST by bvw
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To: seanmerc

Fourteen TNA agents would be more than the number of passengers on an Amtrak to Savannah. I bet some hobos scattered though...


25 posted on 02/24/2011 12:05:52 PM PST by Eagle Bomba
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To: grobdriver

I appreciate all of your efforts. You weren’t the only one that post was addressed to, though. Far too many people are asleep while our civil liberties and Fourth Amendment protections are being stripped away from us. You said that you wear sweats on the plane to give them little reason to harass you. Why should it depend on what you’re wearing? The issue isn’t whether you’re giving them reason to harass you. The issue is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights protect us against unreasonable search. The government doesn’t own our bodies, nor do they give our rights to us. Keep fighting the good fight, and remember to vote at the next election. Until then, make your voice heard—loudly and lawfully.


26 posted on 02/24/2011 12:06:24 PM PST by seanmerc
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To: bvw

Please don’t post to me again. Thank you.


27 posted on 02/24/2011 12:11:45 PM PST by fightinJAG (TAXPAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE)
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To: seanmerc
Why should it depend on what you’re wearing?

No metal in my clothing at all (and thank God no medical implants).
The hardest part is keeping the muderous scowl off my face and being polite to the morons in the blue shirts.

But I also get your point...

28 posted on 02/24/2011 12:12:36 PM PST by grobdriver (Proud Member, Party Of No! No Socialism - No Fascism - Nobama - No Way!)
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To: fightinJAG

Just use the old established Freeper Block-Poster feature, then.


29 posted on 02/24/2011 12:26:31 PM PST by bvw
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To: fightinJAG

you would think that once you disembark, you are no longer a customer and no longer beholden to TSA goons


30 posted on 02/24/2011 12:30:14 PM PST by Revelation 911 (How many 100's of 1000's of our servicemen died so we would never bow to a king?" -freeper pnh102)
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To: seanmerc

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.” - Amendment 4, The United States Constitution


31 posted on 02/24/2011 1:28:13 PM PST by born2bfree
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To: Revelation 911
You might think that, but I don't think law enforcement/homeland security issues are neatly capped by when you do and do not get off the conveyance.

As I've said, if there is information that makes it appropriate to seach deboarding passengers, of course they will (and should) be searched.

TSA has number of ways in which it works with local law enforcement agencies on rail security issues. If, for some reason, a passenger train does need to be searched upon arrival at a station, I could see local police asking TSA to help out since (1) they are authorized to, and (2) they have specialized equipment and so on.

Again, I'm not addressing the scope of the search (what TSA actually did to search). I'm only addressing the somewhat hysteria that no one can be searched getting OFF a public transportation conveyance as opposed to getting ON one.

I've given a couple of examples in posts upthread. Also, it's very common to be searched after getting OFF a conveyance -- as, for example, when you enter customs in another country.

But certainly if LE had reason to think there was something/someone on the train that had to be addressed, a search can and should take place. This really has nothing to do with TSA; such a search could and should happen regardless if TSA didn't even exist. It's just that TSA has the expertise (laugh if you like) at searching large numbers of passengers for contraband right now and part of their mission is to GO to places where passengers need to be searched, for whatever lawful reason.

Again, if an onboard train marshall had a geiger counter go off, say, but couldn't pinpoint the source, it might be appropriate to search deboarding passengers and bags. Just one example.

A person is never outside the jurisdiction of law enforcement's lawful search power. It's just the standards for executing a lawful search vary, depending on the situation. For a public, general search (i.e., not particularized to any one individual), it doesn't matter if one is getting on or off a bus, or entering or leaving an airport. If there's a lawful basis for search, it can occur.

I would for dang sure hope that we don't live in a world where the police get solid information that someone on board a train has a bomb, for example, but the passengers can't be searched when they deboard because . . . they're deboarding?

That would be a crisis, not the opposite.

32 posted on 02/24/2011 1:30:16 PM PST by fightinJAG (TAXPAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE)
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To: seanmerc
The issue is that the Constitution and Bill of Rights protect us against unreasonable search.

All true.

But so far the only reason given for why this search "is unreasonable" is that it occurred to passengers who were deboarding rather than boarding.

How does that automatically make the search "unreasonable"?

IMHO, it doesn't.

I'm not addressing HOW the search was conducted, just the fact that it makes no sense to believe that it's never appropriate to search passengers deboarding a public conveyance.

I gave examples in my other posts, which I won't repeat here. Thanks.

33 posted on 02/24/2011 1:35:45 PM PST by fightinJAG (TAXPAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE)
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To: fightinJAG
it's very common to be searched after getting OFF a conveyance -- as, for example, when you enter customs in another country.

No it is not common. It is rare -- even when traveling abroad I was almost never searched on arrival. In fact one trip I demanded that customs search my goods, because I thought I might be being set up -- where they ignore me at the customs gate and then bust me later for not declaring what I had with me.

On domestic air travel searches upon boarding were rare pre-9/11 and still are not 100%. Upon debarking searches always have rare. For ground travel searches are unheard off.

Stop pushing un-American police-state tactics in the name of paranoia.

34 posted on 02/24/2011 1:42:10 PM PST by bvw
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To: seanmerc

“There were about 14 agents pulling people inside the building and coralling everyone in a roped area after you got off the train.”

Is this 2011 or 1939? Wake up sheep!


35 posted on 02/24/2011 1:42:30 PM PST by wilco200 (11/4/08 - The Day America Jumped the Shark)
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To: fightinJAG
A person is never outside the jurisdiction of law enforcement's lawful search power

That's pure police-state mentality. The wording of the fourth amendment is completely at odds with it.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,
You know, the Constitution never mentions that term you use "law enforcement", I wonder why that is?
36 posted on 02/24/2011 1:47:43 PM PST by bvw
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To: bvw

Talk about needing to grow up. Are you really going to keep on posting to me when I asked you nicely not to?

Really?

See you.


37 posted on 02/24/2011 1:49:12 PM PST by fightinJAG (TAXPAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE)
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To: fightinJAG

Try and detain me then!

You post, I post. We all post. This ain’t the police state you are looking for, officer.


38 posted on 02/24/2011 1:51:02 PM PST by bvw
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To: Vigilanteman

Spot
On


39 posted on 02/24/2011 2:02:41 PM PST by numberonepal (Yes We Cain!)
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To: fightinJAG

If some uniformed clock-puncher has his geiger counter show “something”, there’s still no need to search everybody on the transport. Where did the abnormal reading occur? In this coach or that coach, near this passenger or that? This process of narrowing down the search is called “reasonable”, it use something folks taking the route you do end up having less and less of: reason. The ability to think and reason.

If there is something radioactive it is like a lightbulb in a dark room. It shows itself clearly to the sensing equipment.

Besides WHY are you using geiger counters? You need alpha detectors for polonium. See http://www.deqtech.com/Ludlum/Categories/alpha-detectors.htm


40 posted on 02/24/2011 2:17:37 PM PST by bvw
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To: fightinJAG

So what if passengers were not able to see the man’s face, but they heard him say he had a bomb he was taking to the next stop, would it be okay for LE/HS to search passengers upon deboarding?

What if a passenger called the police and said he was carrying a geiger counter for a research assignment and it went off while he was walking down the aisle of the train? Would it be okay to search the deboarding passengers then?


If a man threatened to use a bomb, it would not be okay for TSA to sexually molest women and children in the name of catching the man who made the threat.

Which pretty much answers the question to the whole problem. How many nine year old white boys are running around with terrorist bombs or have ever been associated with terrorist bombs on public transportation?

How about white women; eldery American women and men... We have politically correct security which is no securty at all because while the bimbos are molesting the nine year old American child, they ignoring foreign MEN within the age range of terrorists who are walking by unmolested. I have seen this happen at airports! It freaking mental. And dangerous. And insulting.


41 posted on 02/24/2011 3:19:57 PM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: SaraJohnson; fightinJAG

He takes the highly abnormal and calls it normal.

He takes the perverted process and calls it what is most rational.

He takes our rights to personal dignity and respect from those acting upon our behalf in positions of safeguarding and makes it null.

To him this modern artifice of a term “law enforcement” comes first in all rights, and before “law enforcement” the rights of a person are only that which “law enforcement” dictates.

Sir Robert Peel, the founder of modern urban police forces, would be ashamed to see what is called this “law enforcement”. Why?

At least three of his nine principles are wholly ignored and abused by these TSA searches:

2. The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon the public approval of police actions.

3. Police must secure the willing co-operation of the public in voluntary observation of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.

4. The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.


42 posted on 02/24/2011 3:42:35 PM PST by bvw
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To: SaraJohnson
If a man threatened to use a bomb, it would not be okay for TSA to sexually molest women and children in the name of catching the man who made the threat.

Your answer completely misses the point of my posts.

I specifically said, several times, that I was not addressing the scope of the search or how it was conducted.

All I am addressing is the hysteria that a search was even done on deboarding passengers. That has nothing to do with whether or not a lawfully done search was conducted rightly or wrongly.

43 posted on 02/24/2011 5:07:58 PM PST by fightinJAG (TAXPAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE)
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To: SaraJohnson

lawfully done = lawfully founded


44 posted on 02/24/2011 5:09:08 PM PST by fightinJAG (TAXPAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE)
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To: SaraJohnson

How would you know whether the man hid the bomb on a child or a white woman?

What about the other example I gave where they know there may be a bomb on the train, but they have no idea if it’s on a passenger and, if so, who?

Believe me, I understand your frustration with TSA and each of the matters you have brought up.

However, again, that is something different from having a kneejerk reaction against all searches of deboarding passengers just because they are getting off a train instead of on.


45 posted on 02/24/2011 5:12:20 PM PST by fightinJAG (TAXPAYERS OF THE WORLD UNITE)
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To: bvw

Sir Robert Peel, the founder of modern urban police forces, would be ashamed to see what is called this “law enforcement”. Why?

At least three of his nine principles are wholly ignored and abused by these TSA searches:

2. The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon the public approval of police actions.

3. Police must secure the willing co-operation of the public in voluntary observation of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.

4. The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.


This is exactly right. The police in America, since this terrorism attitude, training and interaction with the pulbic, is moving the public away from respect and cooperation.

Amerians have a civic relationship with law enforcement. They agree to protect the constitution and interact with us in the spirit of the constitution. In return, we agree to permit them the authority to enforce the law and we agree to protect and help them in that endeavor as best we can.

That is all going out the window now. It’s just more cultural cleansing. They have taken the position of a foreign occupying military force and we are becomming the resentful population they are squating upon.

It is a huge mistake. It is the road to hell and the good intentions, rationalizations and excuses don’t matter. They have no excuse and no right to violate the consitution and it’s spirit in the name of safety.


46 posted on 02/24/2011 9:57:19 PM PST by SaraJohnson
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