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To: familyop
It's the 60-80 mph winds here (110 mph wind load for building code), mostly, and yes, some extremes (-35, F, this winter). But more than that, propane prices over $4 (tourism, retirees). We're blessed with well over 300 sun days in my treeless area, but nearly no one takes full advantage of it (heating, drainback systems needed but too much work for most). ...mornings around 10, F, now, and some snows. I'm at over 9,000 feet just east of a few 14-ers (thus, the high winds most days).

Understood. No trees and propane definitely limit your options. The 300 days of sun sounds really good from the most "Langley" challenged location in the US (Western PA). I think we have maybe 35, fully sunny days on average. February is the pits. We are blessed with ample wood and natural gas.

I'm surprised they did not build more earth sheltered passive solar homes in that environment. Is that an option? We lived in one in Kansas City before returning to PA. It was very well designed with one of the first ground loop heat pumps (forced air with exchanger).
141 posted on 05/05/2011 9:07:27 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Time to beat the swords of government tyranny into the plowshares of freedom.)
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To: PA Engineer

Plus it has been really rainy this year here in Pittsburgh.


142 posted on 05/05/2011 9:29:31 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (General James Mattoon Scott, where are you when we need you? We need a regime change.)
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To: PA Engineer
"We are blessed with ample wood and natural gas."

Excellent! There's much more versatility than being used much (steam, for one).

"I'm surprised they did not build more earth sheltered passive solar homes in that environment. Is that an option?"

People in the Rockies, for the most part, are the laziest people that I've ever met. Digging through rock is hard work, and so is trying to develop an effective passive design (for mechanics, little data scattered all over in many tiny projects of the past). Passive design is over their heads.

For example, how many BTUs from the sun, at what altitude, with what kind of solar activity, in what exact part of the Rockies (degree-days and other considerations vary much from one spot to another), through how much and what kind of glazing, at what distance from glazing to thermal mass, with what size space, how much and what kind of insulation, and so on. As far as I know, low techs. are limited to developing something of their own (with elements most often borrowed from others), until they build something that works in a given square mile (remember the radically different weather from basin to basin, peak to peak, etc.). Upslope/downslope effects (precipitation).

Future occupants of such housing could probably sue easily, because courts would make hash of any reasonable (but complicated) arguments in favor of builders (courts, see Kornbluth's "Marching Morons"). Or that would be the reasoning of developers/builders, who like to get jobs done very quickly. Lossy (lossy thermal), boiler-driven, closed loop systems are licensed, approved, authorized, etc.

Earth sheltered houses also get many obstructions from planning and building offices. "Ooh, that's good and complicated! Let's call all of the big developers in on this one! They haven't made money for months!" Yes--the builders' rackets of the West. And you know, it's not crime, 'cause it's the "wild west!"

There aren't many who study thermal theory for low techs. Come to think of it, though, that kind of information is hard to find for non-engineering techs with little formal education. I'm working on it, though (not an engineer...not even close). Data from furnaces is not useful, as far as I know. We're heating with thermal from the sun--not kilowatts (except for indirect from the circulation pumps, I guess). BTUs from water, for example, is very useful, though.

On passive, a few, rare owner-builders toss a little into a design and hope that it helps. Active designs can be adjusted later on, as long as they were typically overbuilt (controllers, zones, valves, etc.). ...like mine. ;-)

Sorry for the hurried reply, but the weather's good for getting something done more quickly today. ;-)

BTW, the only way that I'll get degree-days even close for this area (high basin) is to mount a little weather station and hook it up (probably a one-wire connected to a small NetBSD box or something, to save on amp-hours). ...will get around to sealing and mounting the one-wire weather station stuff when possible. ...and adding more charging and capacity for that. There's no other weather station in this (geological) formation that I know of.


145 posted on 05/06/2011 11:40:25 AM PDT by familyop (Rome wasn't burnt in a day.)
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