Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Torture doesn’t work…ok, so where’s the disagreement?
Flopping Aces ^ | 05-12-11 | Wordsmith

Posted on 05/12/2011 1:00:19 PM PDT by Starman417

ARLINGTON, VA - DECEMBER 15: (L-R) US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, US President George W. Bush and US Vice President Dick Cheney attend the Armed Forces Farewell Tribute to
Rumsfeld at the Pentagon December 15, 2006 in Arlington, Virginia. Praise was heaped on the outgoing secretary by Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld used his
farewell speech to call for an increase in military spending. (Photo by Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)

"The history of the United States military is clear: Torture doesn't work"- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld

“We don’t torture. That’s not what we’re involved in.”- Vice President Dick Cheney

“This country doesn’t torture, we’re not going to torture."-President Bush

Agents searching Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's compound discovered what one official later called a "mother lode" of valuable intelligence. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was obviously planning more attacks. It didn't sound like he was willing to give us any information about them. "I'll talk to you," he said, "after I get to New York and see my lawyer."

George Tenet asked if he had permission to use enhanced interrogation techniques, including waterboarding, on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. I thought about my meeting with Danny Pearl's widow, who was pregnant with his son when he was murdered. I thought about the 2,973 people stolen from their families by al Qaeda on 9/11. And I thought about my duty to protect the country from another act of terror.

"Damn right," I said.

- Decision Points, pg 170, by George W. Bush

When asked about future plots, KSM's reply was, "Soon you will know." Like Abu Zubaydah before him, KSM was trained to resist standard interrogation techniques. After being waterboarded by his CIA interrogators, Zubaydah thanked them and told them, "You must do this for all the brothers."

...There seems to be a misunderstanding about the nature of the CIA program under the Bush Administration that involved enhanced interrogation. So much so, that even experts in the field of interrogation have been misled into false assumptions about what the CIA interrogation program was all about. One such expert is Matthew Alexander (a pseudonym) whose book, Kill or Capture: How a Special Operations Task Force Took Down a Notorious al Qaeda Terrorist, I recently purchased.

Fortunately, early in 2010, an important book came out to try and set the record straight by defending those CIA interrogators who, up until then, could not openly speak out to defend themselves from all the slander, distortions, and assumptions about their work. The public should not have had knowledge of the details, let alone our enemies. But thanks to the leaks, media hysteria, hype, and distortions, partisan politics over patriotism, and finally the release of the OLC memos by the Obama administration, Marc Thiessen was able to shoot back with his book. As he puts it in his Author's Note and has stated in interviews, "You should not be reading this book. I should not have been able to write it."

The public discourse over the CIA program has in itself killed it. Its effectiveness was in the "not-knowing"; in the uncertainty. Waterboarding had already been discontinued (I think in 2003) long before President Obama's first executive order, redundantly "banning" what was already banned. Revelations about its existence and details already effectively killed its value to CIA interrogators. Now, like those in our military who undergo waterboarding in SERE training, al Qaeda operatives can now add it to their list in interrogation resistance training. According to Thiessen, KSM, who is said to have received upward of 183 splashes during his waterboarding sessions, figured out just how long his interrogators could waterboard him for and would count down the seconds on one hand. Matthew Alexander and critics argue that this is proof of how ineffective waterboarding is. I'd say it bolsters the argument that the CIA method of waterboarding hardly constitutes the kind of waterboarding that does cross the line from the simulated feeling of drowning to one of actual drowning and torture.

The effectiveness of the CIA techniques was in the pretense of torture; of making the terrorist believe that things were worse than they actually were. As Marc Thiessen describes it:

The effect of the techniques is psychological, not physical. They trick the terrorists into thinking what they are enduring is worse than it really is.

It’s like the show Magic’s Biggest Secrets Revealed — once you know how the magician saws the woman in half, you’re not fooled. The same goes for enhanced interrogation.

In wake of the "waterboarding" of Osama bin Laden's carcass at the beginning of this month, new partisan questions have arisen regarding which administration should be credited the most with "having brought him to justice" (and his 72 urchins).

This has reignited the debate between defenders of the Bush-era CIA practice of enhanced interrogation and those attackers who choose to label it "torture" and "ineffective", plain and simple.

(Excerpt)

TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: 911; bush; eit; torture

1 posted on 05/12/2011 1:00:30 PM PDT by Starman417
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Starman417

If they’ve got something to give up, torture works every time it’s tried.

2 posted on 05/12/2011 1:02:18 PM PDT by evad (Obama needs to show us his green card)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Starman417
ok, so where’s the disagreement?

We disagree upon why this posting was excerpted.

3 posted on 05/12/2011 1:02:33 PM PDT by humblegunner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Starman417
If it doesn't work, then why do we train our aircrew and special ops guys on how to resist it?

It works if done right.

4 posted on 05/12/2011 1:05:20 PM PDT by Hulka
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: evad

You are SOOOOOO right. This “torture don’t work” crap is HILARIOUS!!!! You even TALK about going to work on my privates with a rubber mallot, and I’m giving up EVERYTHING. RIGHT NOW!

5 posted on 05/12/2011 1:14:45 PM PDT by Doctor 2Brains (If the government were Paris Hilton, it could not score a free drink in a bar full of lonely sailors)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Starman417

Torture may not work, but enhanced interrogation methods sure do!

6 posted on 05/12/2011 1:16:23 PM PDT by WayneS (Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm. -- James Madison)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Starman417
Oh yes, everyone agrees. The only problem is it isn't true.

Torture would not have been used so frequnetly throughout history if it wasn't effective.

Who ever goes around claiming "torture doesn't work" is kidding himself.

7 posted on 05/12/2011 1:27:22 PM PDT by curiosity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Starman417

Let’s not fall into the semantics trap lain for us by the left. By definition torture must be “severe”. If, after being water-boarded, the subject has no evidence of its’ occurrence then how severe could it have been?

8 posted on 05/12/2011 1:31:48 PM PDT by vigilence
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Starman417
A trifecta! Great post! Great picture! Great quote!

"Damn right," I said. ... President George W. Bush

Thank you President Bush.

9 posted on 05/12/2011 1:50:06 PM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Deb


10 posted on 05/12/2011 1:51:02 PM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Servant of the Cross

I’m REALLY tired of the “torture” crap.

11 posted on 05/12/2011 2:09:50 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Starman417

Yes, torture doesn’t work for extracting a confession. Any confession obtained under torture should be suspect, as should confessions obtained after hours of interrogation.
Battlefield intelligence is a different case. With just one known fact the application of fear or pain can be a great incentive to obtain more information.

12 posted on 05/12/2011 2:16:33 PM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794 is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson