Judge Oliver Ellsworth (CN) (attempted to answer the question of how to avoid a National Legislature dependent Executive) would have the National Legislature elect an Executive to his first term. If he ran for reelection, State Legislatures would do the electing. Thus, his continuance in office would not depend on the National Legislature after his first election.
Elbridge Gerry (MA) insisted that election by the National Legislature was fatally flawed. Leave it to State Governors and Legislatures.
James Madison (VA) said there were four possible modes of Executive election; by the National or State authorities, electors chosen by the people, or the people themselves.
He discussed some previous arguments against the National Legislative mode. (We know at length to expect intrigue and how the Executive would be beholding to the faction that put him into office.) Mr. Madison predicted occasional violence at the elections. A new twist was foreign influence. The National Legislature was not large enough apparently to prevent foreign ministers from bribing officials into electing a man amenable to their policies.
Election by State Legislatures was problematic to Mr. Madison. First, the States displayed a strong propensity to a “variety of pernicious measures.” The National Legislature, (through the power to veto State Laws, which was still in the draft Resolutions) was designed in part to control that propensity. Finally, the National Executive had a veto threat over bills emanating from the National Legislature. Now, if the National Executive was chosen by the State Legislatures, one could expect him to be open to their interests. (After years in Congress and the VA House of Delegates, Mr. Madison had little respect for State Legislatures. Still, I believe he over-thought this issue.)
Election of the National Executive by State Governors (My choice) was fraught with problems as well, according to Mr. Madison. Intrigue among them would of course be intense. (An effective College of Cardinals) (I doubt a twerp Marxist Senator from IL would stand a chance)
Lastly was either indirect or direct election by the people.
Indirect election under Mr. Madison’s plan was identical to the idea of the State Ratifying Conventions that would meet the next year. The people would elect respected men in their communities to vote for a National Executive. There would be less opportunity for corruption by this method. Little previous support had been expressed for this mode.
The remaining method was direct election. Small states would admittedly be at a disadvantage to see favorite sons elected. Southern States would face the disadvantage of fewer voters. (There were some property and other requirements there that were not present in the Northern States where general suffrage was more widespread.) Mr. Madison supported this mode above all others. (His mistrust of State governments ran deep. Well, at least he knew it from experience.)
Judge Oliver Ellsworth (CN) rejected direct, popular election because large State candidates would invariably win.
Mr. Ellsworth’s motion from the opening of the day’s debate, regarding Executive Elections, “Except when the Magistrate last chosen shall have continued in office the whole term for which he was chosen, and be reeligible in which case the choice shall be by Electors appointed for that purpose by the several Legislatures,” was defeated 7-4.
Charles Pinckney (SC) still supported election by the National Legislature such that no man be eligible more than six years in any twelve. (This rule would reduce the disadvantage of letting talented men go, for they could return to service.)
George Mason (VA) supported the idea. The Executive would be independent of the National Legislature that appointed him. His only concern was foreign influence.
Pierce Butler (SC) greatly feared cabal at home and influence from abroad. They would be nearly unavoidable. Popular election would be unwieldy and complex. He preferred Electors selected by the State Legislatures and opposed multiple terms. Each State should have an equal number of votes, no proportionality.
Governeur Morris (PA) disdained multiple terms of office. The evils to avoid are Legislative influence, the instability of short terms, and misconduct. To avoid the first evil only increases the second. Every change of men will produce a change of policies. There will be a near revolving door between Executive and Legislative service. Threat of impeachment was essential, which was another reason to avoid the National Legislature. Election by the people was best, by the National Legislature, worst.
Hugh Williamson (NC) offered a solution to the problem of acing out the small states when it came to popular election of the Executive, by giving every man three votes.
Governeur Morris (PA) & James Madison (VA) supported the idea.
Elbridge Gerry (MA) termed popular election “radically vicious.” (What follows is quite interesting) He was sure members of the Order of Cincinnati would lead ignorant people astray. (If you are not familiar with this association of Revolutionary War veterans, it worth your time)
John Dickinson (DE) noted the insuperable objections against Executive election by the National or State Legislatures and State Governors. Direct election by the people was the purest mode and had the fewest objections. Partiality to favorite sons was a problem he would minimize by having popular nomination in each State of one Candidate. From this list, the National Legislature would select a National Executive.
A motion to postpone Mr. Pinckney’s motion in order to consider other ideas was defeated, 6-5.
Mr. Pinckney’s motion that no person may serve more than six years in twelve was defeated, 6-5.
On a motion to provide members with copies of the proceedings, it passed 10-1. (By this was meant a record of the motions and votes, not Madison’s extensive notes we are reading.)
The question to allow members to take their copies with them was closely defeated, 6-5. (Once again, the secrecy standing rule held. Delegates were not there to entertain galleries of spectators, make grandiose speeches, or quotes for the newspapers. After a long Senate debate the Convention was moving again and there was hope they could present a Constitution to the people.)
Elbridge Gerry (MA) and Pierce Butler (SC) moved to refer the Resolution regarding the Executive to the Committee of Detail.
James Wilson (PA) would not commit so important an issue until a general principle could be decided upon.
The Convention adjourned before taking a vote.
A method of Presidential election that went absolutely nowhere was by the State Governors. Elbridge Gerry brought it up again today and it was ignored. IMO, they probably thought the States had enough influence in the Senate; to give the Governors electoral power would once again make the National Government subservient to the States as under the Articles of Confederation.
Today, with a popularly elected Congress and increasingly democratic sourced President, we could use the filter of State Governors to perhaps save us from ourselves.
I know this, there was no way a majority of Governors would have selected Hussein for President.
Interesting chap! Thomas Jefferson said Mason was the wisest man of our generation.