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Antibiotics And Their Use in Collapse Medicine(tm), Part 1
Doom and Bloom.net ^ | 11/28/11 | Dr. Bones

Posted on 01/24/2012 9:55:20 AM PST by Kartographer

One of the most common questions that I am asked from prospective survival medics is “What antibiotics should I stockpile and how do I use them?” There isn’t a 60 second answer to this. Actually, there isn’t a 60 MINUTE answer to this, but anyone that is interested in preserving the health of their loved ones in a collapse will have to learn what antibiotics will work in a particular situation.

It’s important to start off by saying that you will not want to indiscriminately use antibiotics for every minor ailment that comes along. In a collapse, the medic is also a quartermaster of sorts; you will want to wisely dispense that limited and, yes, precious supply of life-saving drugs.

(Excerpt) Read more at doctorbonesandamyshow.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Health/Medicine
KEYWORDS: antibiotics; emergencyfirstaid; emergencyprep; firstaid; getreadyhereitcomes; medicine; preparedness; prepperping; preppers; selfreliance; survival; survivalmedicine; survivalping
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I recently posted a article urging preppers to look at their medical supplies. A lot of questions came up about buying, storing and using antibiotics, most of which I had no answers for. Hopefully may of your question will be answered in Dr. Bones four part series on Antibiotics And Their Use in Collapse Medicine(tm).
1 posted on 01/24/2012 9:55:30 AM PST by Kartographer
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To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

Links to parts 2, 3 and 4:

For Part 2, see link below:
http://doctorbonesandamyshow.blogspot.com/2011/11/antibiotics-and-their-use-in-collapse_30.html

For part 3, see link below:
http://doctorbonesandamyshow.blogspot.com/2011/12/antibiotics-and-their-use-in-collapse.html

For Part 4, see link below:
http://doctorbonesandamyshow.blogspot.com/2011/12/antibiotics-and-their-use-in-collapse_04.html


2 posted on 01/24/2012 9:59:39 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

bookmark for later


3 posted on 01/24/2012 10:06:07 AM PST by PGR88
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To: Kartographer

ping


4 posted on 01/24/2012 10:11:02 AM PST by 109ACS (If this be Treason, then make the most of it. Patrick Henry, May 1765)
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To: Kartographer

ping


5 posted on 01/24/2012 10:11:33 AM PST by 109ACS (If this be Treason, then make the most of it. Patrick Henry, May 1765)
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To: Kartographer

I’ve seen these listed on other sites. What I’m searching for is a good estimate of shelf life for the various ones. Unlike foods that can be consumed/replaced from the larder, you can’t do that with antibiotics, so it holds the potential of shelling out money periodically to replace the materials.


6 posted on 01/24/2012 10:15:46 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Kartographer

Ok, this has my attention.

Thanks!


7 posted on 01/24/2012 10:16:46 AM PST by precisionshootist
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To: Kartographer
Over the counter Antibiotics
8 posted on 01/24/2012 10:19:14 AM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: amom

Mark


9 posted on 01/24/2012 10:39:24 AM PST by amom
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To: Kartographer

Thanks very much.


10 posted on 01/24/2012 10:49:06 AM PST by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Kartographer

bookmarked


11 posted on 01/24/2012 10:50:59 AM PST by Charlespg
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To: Godzilla

US Army did a study in I think ‘86 as part of SLEP, Shelf Life Extension Program to find out about drugs, which they have stockpiled in the many-billions-of-dollars-worth quantities.

I’ve read parts of it available onle and the conclusion was that for almost all medications, it is reasonable to assume 90% effectiveness and no significant deterioration for ten years after packaging, in some, it was more.

There are exceptions, like tetracycline.

But even something like veterinary tetracycline comes stamped with I believe a four-year shelf life after manufacture.


12 posted on 01/24/2012 10:57:32 AM PST by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: Godzilla; All

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph0LtznsDH8&feature=related

http://www.usamma.army.mil/dod_slep.cfm


13 posted on 01/24/2012 11:09:00 AM PST by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: djf

I saw reference to that report. I get hyper cautious on this aspect of prepardness because of the potential hazards involved. Like i said, I cycle my foods, but can’t reasonably do that with these kinds of meds. I’m continuing to do more online research and may even email some of the authors of these web sites for better details.


14 posted on 01/24/2012 11:09:42 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Godzilla
A Doctor's Thoughts on Antibiotics, Expiration Dates, and TEOTWAWKI, by Dr. Bones

"Studies performed by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) revealed that 90% of medications tested were perfectly fine to use 8-to-15 years after the expiration date"

15 posted on 01/24/2012 11:13:49 AM PST by blam
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To: Godzilla

The gov’t conducted a “shelf life extension” study, and found out that pill form anti-biotics in light shielding containers stored in a cool environment lasted (effectiveness/safety) pretty much indefinitely.

The study was buried, though, because it would really cost the pharmaceutical companies big time.

Dr Bones & Amy talk about this.


16 posted on 01/24/2012 11:15:56 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: djf

Dr Bones & Amy talk about the tetracycline myth as well.

There actually wasn’t any study done to determine if “expired” tetracycline caused renal failure. This myth is based on one incident where someone died, unobserved, of renal failure. They found out he had taken “expired” tetracycline and just blamed it on that without any real connection besides circumstances.


17 posted on 01/24/2012 11:18:33 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: Kartographer

Just saw a product on the shelf, pressureized-can wound cleaner. One brand was a saline cleaner by Arm & Hammer, the other a smaller can by Triple Antibiotic. Pretty handy

I found them in a full price store, $8.50 for about 5-6 oz. I’ll have to check Walmart.

Speaking of Walmart, I see some of their stores are carrying #10 cans of freeze dried storage food.


18 posted on 01/24/2012 11:19:52 AM PST by Cold Heart
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To: Kartographer
A PDR (Physician's Desk Reference) is a vital part of the strategy for survival if you intend to stock antibiotics. Here's a clue to cost for the 2011 PDR (and a good used bookstore will have 2010 and 2009 versions for even less; the antibiotics as topic of this thread will be covered in a 2008 PDR just fine):

At Amazon - Available from these sellers
9 new from $14.00 20 used from $13.49

Anyone serious about serving as medic in a post collapse environment would do well to pick up a Merck Manual, used, also, to help with diagnoses and treatment suggestions.

19 posted on 01/24/2012 11:24:14 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Godzilla

No one is encouraging you to right now, under normal circumstances when fresh supplies are available, take or use expired drugs.

But truthfully, I am always surprised when I hear people talking about what they would do AFTER SHTF “Ewwww... I’d never eat a rat!!” oh OK then just run down to that Chinese deli on the corner and get some take out... that deli burned down 2 years ago!!! In that case, do you want dark-meat rat or rat-tails???


20 posted on 01/24/2012 11:25:22 AM PST by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: MrB; blam

I’ve seen Dr bones’s write up. I’m still in the process of research at this stage. Confirming storagability and then which to procure for emergency storage. Thanks, methinks I’ll be reading a lot of the good dr bones articles in the upcoming days.


21 posted on 01/24/2012 11:30:53 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Godzilla

Key words for acquiring the stuff -

aquarium meds

there is no separate factory, or dosages, of antibiotics for fish.


22 posted on 01/24/2012 11:34:15 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: djf
No one is encouraging you to right now, under normal circumstances when fresh supplies are available, take or use expired drugs.

No, no! I wasn't implying that. I just want to be sure of my purchases' storage and longevity requirements so that I can plan properly for those requirements. I am comfortable with the knowledge that Fish-mox for example is not going to cause me to grow gills ;P I just have to be comfortable and knowledgeable in what I'm getting into as far as these items go - particularly since I've nearly achieved my interium food storage goals and am now looking at first aid/medical additions.

23 posted on 01/24/2012 11:37:00 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Godzilla

what to use for what:

http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/apocalypse/bio_chem_guide.html


24 posted on 01/24/2012 11:37:33 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MrB

Yep, lots of sources out there. Just wanting to confirm storage requirments and shelf life expectancy. Planning on isolating part of the refrigerator if necessary for long term storage, but would like better info.


25 posted on 01/24/2012 11:39:18 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: MrB

thx for the link.


26 posted on 01/24/2012 11:42:21 AM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Godzilla

I think the aquarium stuff I have amounts to doxycycline. I’m not ambitious enough at this moment to dig it out!

;-)


27 posted on 01/24/2012 11:45:14 AM PST by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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B F L


28 posted on 01/24/2012 11:49:02 AM PST by Max in Utah (A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.)
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To: Godzilla
In my previous life I spent decades as a pharmaceutical rep/cardiovascular specialist calling on docs and hospitals and pharmacies. It is my opinion that the articles linked (all four, at the very least) are right on the mark for what to stock up. I would add a few things to the list of medicaments and have done so for my own stocks. But if one acquired a PDR and a good supply of what the articles suggest, one would be way ahead of the game.

BTW, never order prescription medications from a 'Canadian', 'Mexican', or 'Indian' source. Acquire stocks from the fish and vet U.S. suppliers for reliability and quality.

BTW, a good rule of thumb for antibiotics is five to eight years of efficacy if sealed packages are opened to the air and then capped/stored (as in a thousand count jug opened and scripts filled from it), and eight to fifteen years if the packages remain factory sealed ... for capsules and pressed tablets. Subtract three to five years from minimums if the medications are in a transport liquid (liquid dosings). If one stores powdered forms of antibiotics for mixing later, a good means to deliver the powders is a warm water (three parts) and honey (one part) carrier; mix only what would be used up in two weeks (14 days), and prepare the entire liquid mix before combining with the proper measurement of antibiotic for that volume of dosing.

29 posted on 01/24/2012 11:51:09 AM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MrB

I’m pretty much in agreement re: the tetracycline stuff. I know if I open a sealed pac of vet tetracycline, there is a certain consistency and color to it, and as long as it holds those that tells me it has not been exposed to excessive heat or moisture.

And even if a person was suspicious about it, I’m not sure I would throw it away! It could still be dissolved in water and used topically. It could be dissolved in water and used as a mouth rinse in the case of toothaches, etc. as long as the person was careful to gargle good with fresh water and spit it out after.

It’s common sense, really.

I know I asked at the Farm supply about liquid Penicillin. They said it was good long after the expiration date BUT!!! IF IT TURNS YELLOW, PITCH IT!!

And these people know. I mean they use the stuff on multi-million dollar race horses, prize bovine breeding stock, and even though doctors and pharma experts uniformly say that we get too much antibiotic residue from eating things like chicken, that residue IS NOT CONTAMINATED, it’s NOT POISONOUS, so there ya go!


30 posted on 01/24/2012 11:56:44 AM PST by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: MHGinTN

Sounds like good advice - thanks...

What’s the scoop on topical antibiotics?? (Ointments and liquid/spray??)


31 posted on 01/24/2012 11:57:35 AM PST by Uncle Ike (Rope is cheap, and there are lots of trees...)
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To: djf

Dr Bones said that the extended shelf life only applies to PILL FORM.

Liquid form of antibiotic should not be used past its expiration date, according to the Dr.

Also, folks need to look into getting a liquid silver generator. I’ve used LS for sinus infections. It’s great for cuts, etc, to keep from getting infected. Not sure about taking it internally, but it’s supposed to be effective, topically, on almost every known infection agent.


32 posted on 01/24/2012 12:01:30 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MrB

The Doctor can say what he wants, I’m just telling you what the people at the farm supply store told me.

And as far as a silver generator goes, 3 9V batteries, a couple feet of wire, two .999 Fine Silver American Eagles, a gallon of distilled water, and you can make silver solution till the cows come home!


33 posted on 01/24/2012 12:14:20 PM PST by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: Kartographer

I don’t think the use of antibiotics is the problem. It’s the MIS-USE of antibiotics that are the problem.

Not taking them long enough to wipe out the infection, which leaves the most hearty and resistant ones alive and the infection comes back harder to knock out, and maybe requires a tougher drug to kill.

Or prescribing antibiotics for an illness that is not caused by bacteria.

And not providing probiotics (good bacteria) while on antibiotics, to replenish good gut flora that’s knocked out by the medicine. Early with antibiotics docs gave probiotics to patients because they knew the drug hit good and bad bacteria. Now they don’t.


34 posted on 01/24/2012 12:20:35 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Uncle Ike

Too long a topic to air on this thread. BUT, I reccommend using Coconut Oil for topical salves. Coconut oil is a semi-solid at normal room temps and refrigerated, it is a thick base. The great thing about coconut oil is the anti-fungal nature of it naturally. If one has Crisco that is ‘clean’, it can be added to coconut oil to form a thicker salve. Ideally, if you could store Cetaphil lotion (cetal alcohol; at normal room temps, cetal alcohol is a semi-solid) and use it as a carrier for topical preps, I reccommend that, too. Good old vaseline is also a means to transport antibiotics topically, but know this, the vaseline thickness will inhibit transfer of the antibiotic into the wound and tend to keep the medicine more on the surface.


35 posted on 01/24/2012 12:21:23 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: djf
And as far as a silver generator goes, 3 9V batteries, a couple feet of wire, two .999 Fine Silver American Eagles, a gallon of distilled water, and you can make silver solution till the cows come home!

Yes, it's simple, but it's one of those things that not everyone knows...
Remind me not to take silver eagles from you in trade. :)

36 posted on 01/24/2012 12:23:20 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MHGinTN

I do all of my own minor first aid, and usually with next to nothing.

Minor cuts and abrasions:
Wash it GOOD with Ivory soap and warm water
Pat dry with a clean towel, then let air dry
A good triple anti-biotic cream like Neosporin
Band aid!

You might then want to take 1000mg Vit C and a zinc supplement, mileage may vary...


37 posted on 01/24/2012 12:35:48 PM PST by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: djf

Use those dollars instead of wire.

38 posted on 01/24/2012 12:41:45 PM PST by MaxMax
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To: MHGinTN

Another very good thing to know is that most fungi CANNOT TOLERATE, even for the shortest time, exposure to an alkaline environment.

Here in the Pacific Northwest it’s very humid and cool, and alot of the curcurbit vegetables will die from various fungi and mildews.

Either baking soda or potassium bicarbonate dissolved in water, abt a tbsp per two quarts water, knocks the fungus dead in it’s tracks.

Same goes for human skin. Same goes for common thrush (yeast infection in the mouth/on the tongue).

Gargle with a baking soda solution.


39 posted on 01/24/2012 12:47:30 PM PST by djf (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2801220/posts)
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To: Cold Heart
"Speaking of Walmart, I see some of their stores are carrying #10 cans of freeze dried storage food."

Yes.

Our (when TSHTF) chef designate and myself have tested the whole milk listed below from Wal-Mart and found it to be excellent. I recommend it:

Nido: Instant Whole Dry Milk, 3.52 Lbs (Nestle)


40 posted on 01/24/2012 1:18:22 PM PST by blam
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To: djf
I brush my teeth alternately with baking soda, then use the leftover to make a solution for gargling ... and do not rinse or drink water for a minute or two. Once a week I rinse the mouth with a 23 H2O to 1 clorox solution.

I have a cousin who had problems with jock itch recurring. He was going through tubes of miconazole weekly. The baking soda (two tablespoons) in warm water (one quart) at the end of his showers ended his problems after three showers. He uses that once a week now and has no recurring jock itch.

One item not listed by these advisors is permethrin, from a vet supply. Mites and scabbies will eventually be a problem in a post meltdown world. Making up a spray solution (never use around kitties) to treat bedding and seating locations will be useful. Crisco and clorox (a 15 to one water to clorox solution) are an old time athlete's foot remedy from my grandfather. He would treat his feet then put on white socks before going to bed. Cures nail fungus, too.

41 posted on 01/24/2012 1:38:48 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN

Thanks for the tips and info. I’ll probably spend parts of the next two weeks doing further study, look at supply levels and mixes for my family based upon my assessment of our needs and requirements.

I’m looking to keep it as simple as possible and will be sticking to factory sealed tablets/capsules.

Big question I’m working through is will a darkened, storage space in my house work, refrigerate or even freezer for optimum shelf life?


42 posted on 01/24/2012 1:43:06 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Godzilla
02 and sunlight degrade medications. Store in a cool dry place with as much air out as possible. No need to refrigerate for long term storage. A few bottles of hydrogen peroxide are useful, too. excellent wound cleanser. Dilute a tablespoon full in pint and a half of filtered water to make an good mouthwash, plax fighter.
43 posted on 01/24/2012 1:48:40 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: blam

How many gallons of milk will a 3.52 lb can provide?


44 posted on 01/24/2012 1:56:39 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: MHGinTN
02 and sunlight degrade medications. Store in a cool dry place with as much air out as possible.

OK, sounds like storing in a sealabel container with either 02 sorbers or 02 displaced by dry ice would be the ticket eh?

I'll keep hydrogen peroxide in mind too as I'm looking for antibiotics for external application as well.

45 posted on 01/24/2012 1:59:19 PM PST by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: blam

I trried it and didn’t taste good at all. I wonder if I got a bad can?


46 posted on 01/24/2012 2:17:59 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer
"I trried it and didn’t taste good at all. I wonder if I got a bad can?"

I don't know.

I and a woman who cooks all the time tried it out...it's the best tasting powdered milk I've ever tried. I had her test it after my experience and she said the same, good. So, I bought 12 cans and put it in storage for when TSHTF.

Previously, (before I discovered this stuff) I had been buying Carnation Instant non-fat Dry Milk for possible cooking use by other people because I sure didn't like it. Anyway, It may just be a matter of taste.

47 posted on 01/24/2012 2:32:04 PM PST by blam
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To: Godzilla
"I trried it and didn’t taste good at all. I wonder if I got a bad can? "

I'm not sure...8-12 gallons?

48 posted on 01/24/2012 2:35:12 PM PST by blam
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To: Godzilla
Sorry. I got the last post a little mixed up.

"How many gallons of milk will a 3.52 lb can provide?"

I'm not sure---8-12 gallons?

49 posted on 01/24/2012 2:37:17 PM PST by blam
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To: Godzilla
I use ammo cans with a couple of dessicant packets and that's all you need. The cans seal air tight because of a rubber ring and the dessicant removes any moisture wicked or otherwise. No need to go to the trouble of CO2.
50 posted on 01/24/2012 2:38:29 PM PST by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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