Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Woodrow Wilson absolutely hated the principles of the Founding Fathers
PGA Weblog ^

Posted on 02/25/2012 3:35:29 PM PST by ProgressingAmerica

"If you want to understand the real Declaration, do not repeat the preface." - Woodrow Wilson

There is so much in that little line. The obvious question is regarding the preface - what's in the preface of the Declaration of Independence that scared Wilson so much? In short, fundamental truths. Timeless, tested, proven to work fundamentals. Our reliance on our creator, and not upon government, for our rights.

In 1911, Woodrow Wilson gave his now infamous speech regarding the Declaration to - of all places, I love this - the Jefferson Club. "An Address to the Jefferson Club of Los Angeles" is the full title of this speech. What's really telling about how much disdain he had for the Founders is the line that precedes the one I opened this up with: (You can read the majority of this speech here)

Now, the business of every true Jeffersonian is to translate the terms of those abstract portions of the Declaration of Independence into the language and the problems of his own day. If you want to understand the real Declaration, do not repeat the preface.

See what I mean? Just with one single sentence, we get a much fuller view of Wilson's contempt for the Founders. Especially when he says 'translate the terms of those abstract portions of the Declaration'. But what's so abstract that needs translation? The natural law portions. Something that progressives have always been consistent about,(and I have a full blog devoted to proving this, in their own words) is the need for bigger and bigger government. But how can you grow government if the foundation is built on the rejection of tyranny? You don't repeat the preface. Just skip it.

And it's not like Wilson only said this once. September 1907, in "The Author and Signers of the Declaration", Wilson wrote the following:

So far as the Declaration of Independence was a theoretical document, that is its theory. Do we still hold it? Does the doctrine of the Declaration of Independence still live in our principles of action, in the things we do, in the purposes we applaud, in the measures we approve? It is not a question of piety. We are not bound to adhere to the doctrines held by the signers of the Declaration of Independence; we are as free as they were to make and unmake governments. We are not here to worship men or a document. But neither are we here to indulge in a mere rhetorical and uncritical eulogy. Every Fourth of July should be a time for examining our standards, our purposes, for determining afresh what principles, what forms of power we think most likely to effect our safety and happiness. That and that alone is the obligation the Declaration lays upon us.

He might as well have said his name was Philip Dru when he wrote this.(though, the book wouldn't have been released at that time) Notice how he throws out that fallacy about worshipping men or a document? That's the stereotypical progressive arrogance, and beyond that - that's ridicule. That might as well have come out of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals, even though that wasn't written yet either.(Page 128, rule # 5)

So even though the constitution is the law of the land, they don't have to uphold it. And they don't. When progressives get into office, the ends justifies the means, anything goes, and they're free to "Fundamentally Transform The United States of America". Wilson even says so himself - the Declaration only holds them up to one single obligation. All the rest of that stuff about tyranny? Throw it out the window, it's just some dusty old document anyways, it's just a living document anyways. We are the ones we have been waiting for.

Woodrow Wilson also directly rejected the rule-of-law theory, you can read about it here.


TOPICS: Education
KEYWORDS: progressingamerica; woodrowwilson

1 posted on 02/25/2012 3:35:33 PM PST by ProgressingAmerica
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: detective; iceskater; surroundedbyblue; DuncanWaring; Hemingway's Ghost; bigheadfred; GladesGuru; ..
If anybody wants on/off the revolutionary progressivism ping list, send me a message

Progressives do not want to discuss their own history. I want to discuss their history.

2 posted on 02/25/2012 3:37:17 PM PST by ProgressingAmerica (What's the best way to reach a you tube generation? Put it on you tube!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica

Yep. So did Teddy Roosevelt.


3 posted on 02/25/2012 3:37:43 PM PST by SeeSharp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeeSharp

Its amazing that we managed to save ourselves from progressives in the past. We’ve hit some serious low points and haven’t hit bottom yet I fear.


4 posted on 02/25/2012 3:40:19 PM PST by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica
Every Fourth of July should be a time for examining our standards, our purposes, for determining afresh what principles, what forms of power we think most likely to effect our safety and happiness. That and that alone is the obligation the Declaration lays upon us.

Modern day democrat dogma to a tee.

5 posted on 02/25/2012 3:44:24 PM PST by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica
Of course he hated the Constitution. He was an Ivy League professor.
6 posted on 02/25/2012 3:46:53 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica

Wilson is dead and the people of the USA voted him in. How did that happen?

How do we get back to our founders and avoid Wilsons and Obamas?


7 posted on 02/25/2012 4:21:47 PM PST by Irenic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica

He also hated Jews and blacks, so what else is new?


8 posted on 02/25/2012 4:22:12 PM PST by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica

I doubt the man was familiar with the great works of literature and classics that Thomas Jefferson knew so well.

He probably never read the Federalist papers either.

I suppose that he (and Obama) actually despise the FIRM principle that the Founders so strongly held in common: that sovereignty was to emanate from outside of government for this new nation....in the people!


9 posted on 02/25/2012 4:24:07 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Irenic

Actually, we need to begin with fasting and prayer, call our nation to repentance, keep praying and educate the people.

If people are too ignorant to understand the great thing they have, they will be inclined to be VERY careless with it....even to the point of losing it.


10 posted on 02/25/2012 4:27:19 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica
With 20-20 hindsight, the narcissistic Modernism of that time seems tragically naive. These guys remind me of idle boaters lazily drifting down the Niagara River, unaware of what lies ahead. Recent advances in physics had just about wrapped up a complete description of the physical world (with only a few loose ends, like the spectral distribution in a black-body cavity). The universe was understandable, mechanistic, and static. No need anymore for God. And the emerging science of human behavior would soon lead to a perfectly-ordered society.

And then came the 20th century. Within a few decades, Planck would trigger the shredding of classical physics, and Lemaitre and Hubble would discard the static universe. And new theories of government would be met with a deluge of slaughter. Could Wilson, in his smug assurance, ever have imagined Flanders Fields, the Gulag, Treblinka, Bataan, The Cultural Revolution, or the Killing Fields?

As despicable as Wilson and his coterie were, far worse are his intellectual descendants a century later, who have learned nothing.

11 posted on 02/25/2012 4:33:02 PM PST by PlateOfShrimp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeeSharp

Woody and TR still thought they had to override or change the Constitution, since they assumed it meant what it said.

Progressives hadn’t figured out yet that the Constitution was really a “living document” that meant whatever progressive judges said it meant.

Their open opposition was thus more respectful of constitutional principles than the modern ignoring of them.


12 posted on 02/25/2012 4:37:29 PM PST by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica

“But what’s so abstract that needs translation? The natural law portions.”

_________________________________________________

It needs NO translation. ALL of the Founders were familiar with the writings of Cicero regarding the natural law... and Aristotle’s Hierarchy of Goods (which was a structure they used in the writing of the Constitution).

They were also VERY cognizant of the fact that we needed God to succeed and endure.


13 posted on 02/25/2012 4:46:16 PM PST by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica

I never saw that history of President Woodrow Wilson.
Here is what have seen in his history:

“Woodrow Wilson (1856-1924),{died 10 years before I was born] became the 28th President of The United States, after having served as the Governor of New Jersey. He was an educator, author, and the President of Princeton University. In his Inaugural Address, March 4,1913, President Woodrow Wilson stated:

“God’s own presense, where justice and mercy
are reconciled and the Judge and the Brother
are one....God helping me, I will not fail....”


14 posted on 02/25/2012 4:47:48 PM PST by LetMarch (If a man knows the right way to live, and does not live it, there is no greater coward. (Anonymous)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: LetMarch
Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism does a great job of laying bare much of the (conveniently) forgotten history of Wilson...
15 posted on 02/25/2012 4:51:23 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica

Not to defend Woodrow Wilson, but I suspect that Wilson, unlike the author of the blog article, was aware that Th. Jefferson promoted the radical idea that every 19 years, each generation should have its own revolution and recreate government their own way. He was particularly concerned that new generations should not be bound by the political choices of those who came before.

“The earth always belongs to the living generation. They may manage it then, and what proceeds from it, as they please, during their usufruct. ...Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of nineteen years. If enforced longer, it is an act of force and not of right.” (Th. Jefferson to James Madison, September 6, 1789).

Madison was tactful, but having experienced the struggle to create the Constitution first hand, no doubt wondered if Jefferson had eaten too much French cooking.


16 posted on 02/25/2012 4:59:46 PM PST by Chewbarkah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

Your #12 is an insightful and accurate comment.

But. perhaps Woody and TR who apparently felt constrained were only “respectful of constitutional principles” because they had not yet developed the models and the “work-arounds” that confront us today. (As you know, TR was <1917 and Wilson’s statement was in 1913)

There is room to argue, certainly in the case of Wilson, that their intent may have been only slightly less threatening than that of the current actors.


17 posted on 02/25/2012 5:04:26 PM PST by frog in a pot (I am not a birther, I am an NBC'er)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica

Just another Seditious Rat like Obama.


18 posted on 02/25/2012 5:10:25 PM PST by LtKerst (Lt Kerst)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Irenic
How do we get back to our founders and avoid Wilsons and Obamas?

You can't. These kind of men are inevitable. Which is why the US government was set up the way it was. Three different types of legislators voted in three different ways.

And have you seen how long it was suppose to take a bill to become a law? It was designed to be clumsy, inefficient and slow with lots of gridlock. That was to keep people like Wilson and Obama in check.

But now the president has become more and more powerful and the safeguards are being tossed. Bill won't pass in it's revised form? We'll just "deem it passed". Can't get a budget with all the new spending passed? Just vote for a "continuing resolution". Can't get a vote on a new law? Just have one of your departments add it as a regulation. Or just do an executive order.

We have tossed the speed bumps and are merrily on our way to tyranny.

The really sad part is that means that we can no longer undo what they have done in a constitutional manner. They can block stuff long enough that they are back in power before the mess is cleaned up.

19 posted on 02/25/2012 5:31:39 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Would you sing if someone sucked YOU up the vacuum cleaner hose?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

Did we......or have we? Almost one hundred years under the monetary and corrupt fiscal control of a central bank, I’d say we are screwed.


20 posted on 02/25/2012 5:53:12 PM PST by free from tyranny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: frog in a pot

Quite true.

However, I’d also like to point out that there is little in Wilson’s actual words as quoted in the article to object to.

Certainly Jefferson would have agreed with them. I’ve just finished an excellent book on the Declaration, and it shows very clearly that the Founders didn’t think of themselves as demigods setting up a permanent form of government for all time. They were well aware that changing circumstances would require modifications to the Constitution, though I’m pretty sure they expected the principles outlined in that darn preamble to the Declaration to be valid forever. (However imperfect they were at implementing those principles themselves.)

In fact, that’s why they included provision for amending the Constitution as needed. Personally, I think an amendment making the Constitution less difficult to amend is needed. The present situation, where truly substantive issues haven’t been settled by an amendment since the 50s or 60s, depending on how you define “substantive,” IMO does not serve us well.

Changes WILL be made, and if they can’t be made constitutionally, it encourages end runs around the Constitution. I’m perfectly well aware this isn’t a popular POV, and has zero chance of being implemented, but I think it would be a good thing if it were. I also think it is perfectly in alignment with the spirit in which the Founders actually worked.


21 posted on 02/25/2012 6:12:10 PM PST by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

“Woody and TR still thought they had to override or change the Constitution, since they assumed it meant what it said.”

They found a way, however.

The 17th Amendment was the cornerstone to the Progressive agenda. With it, they took away the primary means of limiting the growth of the federal government, the individual states. Before the 17th Amendment senators were selected by state legislatures to represent the interests of the state — which included maintaining control of state powers.

Once “the people” elected Senators, they became nothing but additional House members representing the whims and fancies of the people — who could always be persuaded to concede to the federal government those powers that were formerly theirs (and the states’).

If you ever want to return to the constitutional principle of limited government then the 17th Amendment must be repealed.


22 posted on 02/25/2012 7:16:36 PM PST by FerociousRabbit
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica
If you want to understand the real Declaration, do not repeat the preface.

Every bit of mischief (plus a great deal more to come) with modern American government spawns from that line, like an epidemic.

23 posted on 02/25/2012 7:23:10 PM PST by denydenydeny (The more a system is all about equality in theory the more it's an aristocracy in practice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica
He just hated that thing about Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
24 posted on 02/25/2012 8:33:58 PM PST by 2001convSVT (Going Galt as fast as I can.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica

And he was a racist who issued an executive order preventing blacks from getting jobs with the federal government. This created the original slums in DC.


25 posted on 02/25/2012 8:36:39 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FerociousRabbit
Greetings FerociousRabbit:

The 17th Amendment was the cornerstone to the Progressive agenda.

The 16th, 17th, & 18th Amendments were the Progressive Trifecta.

Seems something we read in high school indicated Progressives believed this representative republic experiment, a nation of laws with men limited by a Constitution would end shortly after the loss of recreational alcohol consumption. And it nearly did. Execept Progressives never counted on the resourcefullness of a 21st Amendment repealing their 18th. Too bad the 21st only repealed the 18th Amendment.

Cheers,
OLA

26 posted on 02/25/2012 8:55:57 PM PST by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: FerociousRabbit

Problem: I’ve lived in half a dozen states, and in each of them the state legislature was even more corrupt and subservient to special interests than is Congress.

IMO returning election of senators to the states would not help and might very well make things worse.


27 posted on 02/25/2012 8:56:12 PM PST by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek
Its amazing that we managed to save ourselves from progressives in the past. We’ve hit some serious low points and haven’t hit bottom yet I fear.

Hillary is the bottom. How low we go is determined by how long she's able to pull strings.

It's that crude.

28 posted on 02/25/2012 8:59:14 PM PST by Talisker (He who commands, must obey.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica

Wilson believed in the British system and wanted to be a prime minister. Nixon was a big admirer of Wilson; maybe that explains why both were pitiful failures.


29 posted on 02/25/2012 9:00:05 PM PST by Theodore R. (Forget the others: It's Santorum's turn, less baggage, articulate, passionate)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica

How well did Princeton Wilson “Protect, and Defend The Constitution?”

BTW, why DO we elect so many Ivy-League Presidents?

Are we doomed to learn nothing from our past mistakes?


30 posted on 02/25/2012 9:01:18 PM PST by Graewoulf (( obama"care" violates the 1890 Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND is illegal by the U.S. Constitution.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OneLoyalAmerican; FerociousRabbit
The 17th Amendment was the cornerstone to the Progressive agenda.

The 16th, 17th, & 18th Amendments were the Progressive Trifecta.

Seems something we read in high school indicated Progressives believed this representative republic experiment, a nation of laws with men limited by a Constitution would end shortly after the loss of recreational alcohol consumption. And it nearly did. Execept Progressives never counted on the resourcefullness of a 21st Amendment repealing their 18th. Too bad the 21st only repealed the 18th Amendment.

The 14th is the turning point. It created, out of whole cloth, an imaginary government devoid of rights, and under which all interpretations of all law (including Amendments) were to be made from the principle of total government superiority, and zero citizen sovereignty - and absolute reversal of the original Constitution.

31 posted on 02/25/2012 9:05:21 PM PST by Talisker (He who commands, must obey.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Talisker

Greetings Talisker:

Concur with the unintended “role reversal” consequences of 14th Amendment as practiced. And still uncomfortable with the process for how the 14th Amendment came to be. But the 14th as a “Progressive” agenda initiative is not in my frame of reference. Care to expand upon that?

Rick Santorum’s expressed commitment to appoint SCOTUS justices in the model of Clarence Thomas gives me hope. The left absolutely hates Clarence Thomas especially for his stance on the 9th Amendment; which could undo the Statist’s zero citizen sovereignty assult upon our Constitution.

Cheers,
OLA


32 posted on 02/25/2012 9:49:47 PM PST by OneLoyalAmerican (In God I trust, all others provide citations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

With the 17th Amendment the relevance of state legislatures was greatly diminished thereby allowing for apathy to leave a vacuum that drew in small minded locals to breed corruption.

Cause and effect. Before the 17th voters were much more engaged in state legislatures; and after not so much.

The rationale for the 17th was borne out of some state legislature gridlocks leaving Senatorial positions vacant. In my book that is a good thing. If voters could not decide their state politics, then the state sitting it out in Congress reflected the indecision. Fine by me.

In states with a senate that represented rural areas on par with urban, these senate bodies had a great sway over appointment of US Senators. Whereas today it is the large liberal union controlled urban voter populations that elect US Senators.

The 16th and 17th both should have been repealed along with the 18th but the impact of the 16th and 17th was not felt until its creep factor (slow boil frog process) became so pervasive that people have woken up to what these things have done to society.

The 16th and 17th were banker creations and the 18th served as a red herring to divert voter angst to a social issue. Meanwhile the Federal Reserve Act was passed and signed into law by Wilson to complete the foundation for supporting a centralization of federal power with a new unholy alliance with central bankers.

All of these things were done with a sales pitch of more democracy and more fairness when in reality they were done to consolidate political and financial power in the federal government, just as Obamacare is not about providing healthcare to the uninsured but about controlling access and inserting a new tax scheme into the life of every American. Just as Social Security was constitutionally upheld as a tax under the 16th, so will Obamacare be so characterized. And state legislatures including their conservative rural voices will have no effect in the US Senate to stop the socialism. And socialism is ultimately about focusing the power and wealth into the hands of a few while giving the public an illusion of an egalitarian society.


33 posted on 02/25/2012 11:37:35 PM PST by Hostage (The revolution needs a spark. The Constitution is dead.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Chewbarkah; Sherman Logan
There's two things which stand out to me in the discussion that has ensued.

Chewbarkah, you were correct, I didn't know about Jefferson's 19 year proposal. I'm glad you mentioned it, and I went looking for it. What I found was this: this. There appears to be a larger context with this letter to Madison, which involves a land question. It's not simply about dissolving all government after 19 years. There are a lot of laws which get changed and thrown out on a generational basis, and I think that's a good thing. But here's the difference. Considering Jefferson's view of some firmly set truths revolving around our natural rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, we don't throw out the entire concept of liberty after a mere 19 years. That's what Wilson did want.

To Sherman:

You made the following comment:

"However, I’d also like to point out that there is little in Wilson’s actual words as quoted in the article to object to. Certainly Jefferson would have agreed with them. I’ve just finished an excellent book on the Declaration, and it shows very clearly that the Founders didn’t think of themselves as demigods setting up a permanent form of government for all time. They were well aware that changing circumstances would require modifications to the Constitution, though I’m pretty sure they expected the principles outlined in that darn preamble to the Declaration to be valid forever. (However imperfect they were at implementing those principles themselves.)"

What I bolded is the key. The preamble is exactly what Wilson and his ilk were objecting to, and Jefferson would very much have had a problem with this, because as you said(and I agree) the Founders looked at these to be fundamental truths. The progressives don't look at these as fundamental truths, and want to progress past these inconveniences. This can't go both ways. For people who see value in the preamble, then Wilson's words are highly offensive.

As long as we are endowed by our creator with inalienable rights, then the progressives cannot rule over us.(but they will keep trying) And while Jefferson had his 19 year proposal, I'm fairly confident he did not mean that after 19 years, liberty ends and let's resume tyranny. Look, maybe I'm wrong, Chewbarka has already established that I don't have all the answers, to which I readily admit.

34 posted on 02/26/2012 8:13:42 AM PST by ProgressingAmerica (What's the best way to reach a you tube generation? Put it on you tube!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica

I share everyone’s opposition to the Progressive Agenda. Since we should always found our case on solid ground, follow the link to Wilson’s Jefferson Club speech. It is clear that his rhetorical intent is to say in effect “let’s keep Jefferson’s high-minded preamble, and create a new list of abuses, injustices, etc., for our time, in the light thereof.” Thus, Wilson is in precise agreement with your emboldened text. Of course he then proposes his twisted version of problems and solutions, incorporating, the Progressive economic critique of the Constitution (that wealthy “haves” created an order to butter their bread and keep the little man down), its social agenda, and its pantheon of pseudo-solutions. His purpose in this speech is not to deny Jefferson’s preamble, but to hijack and harness it, like the rest of us, to the Progressive plough. He even arrogates Mr. Jefferson’s posthumous endorsement of the crime.


35 posted on 02/27/2012 8:06:45 AM PST by Chewbarkah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: ProgressingAmerica

I share your contempt for the Progressive Agenda. Since we should always found our case on solid ground, follow the link to Wilson’s Jefferson Club speech. It is clear that his rhetorical intent is to say in effect “let’s keep Jefferson’s high-minded preamble, and create a new list of abuses, injustices, etc., for our time, in the light thereof.” Thus, Wilson is in precise agreement with your emboldened text. Of course he then proposes his twisted version of problems and solutions, incorporating, the Progressive economic critique of the Constitution (that wealthy “haves” created an order to butter their bread and keep the little man down), its social agenda, and its pantheon of pseudo-solutions. His purpose in this speech is not to deny Jefferson’s preamble, but to hijack and harness it to the Progressive plough. He even arrogates Mr. Jefferson’s posthumous endorsement of the crime.


36 posted on 02/27/2012 8:21:15 AM PST by Chewbarkah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson