Posted on 05/21/2012 5:07:53 PM PDT by Starman417
The issue of Barack Obama's birthplace has been simmering for a long time. It has been ridiculed by the left incessantly, as well as by some on the right. The seemingly sensible course is to deny that Obama was born anywhere else but in Hawaii, but as is typical of Obama, nothing is as it initially appears. There are questions that need answers.
Breitbart has disclosed that Obama's literary agent published a booklet that describes a young Barack Obama as being born in Kenya:
Breitbart News has obtained a promotional booklet produced in 1991 by Barack Obama's then-literary agency, Acton & Dystel, which touts Obama as "born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii."The booklet, which was distributed to "business colleagues" in the publishing industry, includes a brief biography of Obama among the biographies of eighty-nine other authors represented by Acton & Dystel.
It also promotes Obama's anticipated first book, Journeys in Black and White--which Obama abandoned, later publishing Dreams from My Father instead.
All too predictably, the media immediately leaped to defend Obama, asserting this was some sort of oversight:
Barack Obama birth certificate conspiracy theorists have been foiled again.
Conservative-leaning Breitbart.com on Tuesday published a copy of a promotional booklet from Obama's former literary agency. According to a brief biography in the 1991 booklet, Obama was "born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii," fueling fire to the idea that the president is not a natural-born American citizen.As New York magazine noted, the article caused a stir in conservative circles, drawing commentary from the Drudge Report and other popular websites.
However, the woman who wrote Obama's biography in the pamphlet said Thursday that she had misidentified Obama's place of birth.
"This was nothing more than a fact-checking error by me -- an agency assistant at the time," Miriam Goderich, who worked for the literary agency Acton & Dystel, told Yahoo News. "There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii."
So the left would have us believe that this woman allowed this error to fester for 20 plus years. Saner heads might question why this remained uncorrected all this time. Maybe she didn't know Obama had been elected President? From where did she get the notion that Obama could have been born in Kenya?
But then another "Born in Kenya" account emerges- this one from the AP in 2004.
(Excerpt) Read more at floppingaces.net...
That is true. Now it becomes a question of finding one with the guts to do it.
This idea has been repeated constantly, and yet it is little founded in reality. I remember when it was first alleged that his grandmother claimed he was born in Kenya, I eagerly went to the website reporting the claim to see it for myself.
It turned out to be utter rubbish. The man asking the questions is doing so in English, and a translator is supposedly repeating what he said to the Grandmother. She answers in what I presume is some Kenyan dialect, and the translator translates it back to English.
Just that alone is enough to impeach the credibility of such a claim, but it is even worse than that. The man asks a leading (and misleading) question.
You must NEVER ask leading questions to get to the truth. You are, in effect, putting words in your witnesses mouth and urging them to agree with you.
Had the interviewer simply asked, "Where was he born?" and had the Grandmother replied, "Here in the Village." Then you might have something, but it would still be suspect because the conversation is crossing two languages, but to ask "Were you present at his birth here in your village?" Renders the entire attempt pointless, because it is not only a leading question, it is attempting to communicate two not necessarily related points at the same time. The way she may have understood it after the translator got finished with it might have been "Were you here in the Village when he was born?"
No, the so-called statement from the Grandmother is utter crap, especially when it was further clarified to her what they were asking, and she then emphatically denied he was born in the Village.
I would not even bring that up as a piece of evidence. It is embarrassing to anyone that has heard and understands the exchange between the questioner and the Grandmother. It is an obvious attempt to trick an old lady who speaks a different language, and it ought not be regarded as proof of anything other than that some people are eager to put words in other people's mouths.
I would point out that all 50 states produce more than 120,000 (One hundred and twenty thousand) fraudulent birth certificates every year. (Except when it is done legally, we don't call it "fraud." )
If it occurs more than 120,000 times per year, why would it not be plausible for it to have occurred just this once? Especially when you add to that the highly probable event that Lolo Soetoro Adopted Barack Obama back in 1965. Barry was probably re-adopted by his Grandmother in 1971. She certainly had physical possession of him for the next 8 years, so why would she not also have legal possession of him?
It is now, as it always has been, a fact.
I have seen no evidence that he was born in Kenya, and quite a bit to indicate that he was not. What makes you think he was born in Kenya?
I think it is far more likely he was born in Canada.
People always overlook the obvious. It's not a "conspiracy" if it's legal. *I* am an adopted child, and I have a fake birth certificate which they created when I was adopted.
Is it too much to consider that the same may be true of Obama?
Yes, I think his documents are fake, but I also think they are "legal" fakes.
I have been arguing that the document did indeed come from Hawaii, and it was produced by the Hawaiian Department of Health as a replacement birth certificate for an adopted child who had his adoption annulled by court order.
The quality of workmanship for creating replacement birth certificates is not intended to pass detailed scrutiny, but is only intended to pass a superficial inspection. It is a fake document, but I believe that it is also a LEGAL document.
What you have presented is not evidence. It is merely a bunch of people repeating the same claim. I believe they were all fed the same false story which originated with Barack Obama, because prior to 2006, I think he consistently claimed that he was from Kenya.
I account for it this way. Prior to his effort to run for President, Barack Obama repeatedly told people that he was from Kenya because he thought it made him sound more "exotic" or something. It was exactly like Elizabeth Warren claiming to be Cherokee.
I bet if you did a search in various places, you would find dozens of documents claiming that she is Cherokee. It doesn't make them true.
The evidence indicates that it is VERY UNLIKELY that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. As near as I can determine, he was born either in Hawaii, Canada, or Northwest Washington state. My current suspicion is that he was born in Canada. It explains all the stonewalling regarding his documents, and it fits with all the evidence of which I am aware.
Not at all. The State of Hawaii makes thousands of replacement birth certificates every year, and they have the necessary database of contemporary documents to draw upon to make them look realistic. What makes it appear silly to you is that you, like most people, are probably unaware that all 50 states make "fake" birth certificates many thousands of times every year.
Even though the documents are not actually true, they are regarded as legal and legitimate.
So if you want to claim they are forgeries, you have to weave into your story that the Hawaii State officials are all involved in the conspiracy as well.
Geeze, once again, it is not a "conspiracy" if it is a normal and common legal process.
The Hawaiian Department of Health creates a new birth certificate for an adopted child, every time they are ordered to do so by a judge. The document may be fake, but it is a "legal" fake.
I think Barack Obama has an original birth record, but I don't think it is an actual birth certificate. I think it is either a delayed birth certificate, or an "at home birth" affidavit.
I think Barack Obama's attorneys petitioned a court in Hawaii to have his 1971 adoption by his Grandmother annulled, and asked the court to create a new replacement birth certificate for him based on the information contained in his original birth record.
Obama was born in Kenya. You're free to believe what you want.
I am also free to challenge what I believe are erroneous statements, or at the very least, unsupported statements.
What makes you think he was born in Kenya? The evidence of which I am aware makes this extremely unlikely.
Of course. And you keep that evidence in the wardroom icebox. You know, the one with the duplicate key.
Not at all. It's all available on the web, you just have to look at it.
Honestly, your theory makes much less sense than the people who claim it is a straight forgery. It might have worked to explain the short form, but not the original. They original is signed and dated 1961, it is a cert of live birth, it's via a maternity ward at a hospital.. It is absolutely not a common legal process to fake that information.
According to what I have discovered in Hawaii's birth certificate laws, a child who gets a delayed birth certificate has up to one year to be examined by a doctor, at which time said examining doctor may be listed on the birth certificate as the birth doctor, and the facility he works at listed as the birth facility.
Have you bothered to read Hawaii's birth certificate/adoption laws? They allow stuff you really wouldn't expect. Here are a couple of links.
http://www.westernjournalism.com/exclusive-investigative-reports/clearing-the-smoke-june10/
http://gen.doh.hawaii.gov/sites/har/AdmRules1/8%208A%20B%20VR%20Admin%20Rules.pdf
Especially note in the second link that when the date, place of birth and parentage are established in the adoption proceedings, then a delayed certificate will not be required.
“Besides the fact that it’s Uber-Chic to be from Kenya....”
.
You have to be kidding.
Visit Mombasa and see if you think it is chic. Then visit the many villigas that are totally depleted of young people because most of them have died of Aids.
Walk any of the beaches and be surrounded by beggars.
There is not a chic place in all of Africa — perhaps in South Africa, but that is because evil white folks are living there.
OK, so we are looking at a document that was filed in the state of hawaii on August 8, 1961. Assume it isn’t a forgery - what exactly is your theory?
Even the short version is pretty long, but you asked for it!
As was a common practice for that era regarding embarrassing pregnancies, sometime in 1961, Stanly Ann went to live with either her Aunt Eleanor Berkibeile, or her Uncle Ralph Dunham in North West Washington. My guess is that her aunt would have been preferable as a woman who had recently lost two children, and would possibly welcome her and be more suitable for her needs than would have been her uncle Ralph.
Aunt Eleanor appears to have been living in Blaine Washington at the time. Blaine is a small town in Washington which shares it's northern border with the Canadian town of White Rock. Blaine did not have a hospital in 1961. White Rock did. *IF* Stanley Ann was staying with Aunt Eleanor, there is a very good probability that little Barry was born in White Rock Canada.
Alternatively, there were several well known maternity facilities being operated in Vancouver for unwanted mothers wishing to have their children adopted. You may or may not recall that in information released from Barack Obama Sr's INS file, he mentioned that it was his and Stanley Ann's intention to place the baby for adoption.
In either case, it looks very plausible that Barry could have been born in Canada, and if that is the case, how could he get a Hawaiian birth certificate? Simple. Stanley Ann calls momma, who files the appropriate paperwork in Hawaii to establish Barry's birth record. Madelyn Dunham could have filed a "born at home" affidavit of birth through the mail without even having to see a registrar in person. Apparently they had up to a year to get the child examined by a Doctor. The point is, Barry's original record needn't be an actual birth certificate.
Next step in the saga, is the 1965 Adoption of Barry Dunham (by this time Stanley Ann had divorced Barack Sr.) by Lolo Soetoro. There are 6 pieces of circumstantial evidence which establishes Lolo Soetoro as having adopted Barry. (I'll list them in a subsequent message if you need me to do so.) When Barry was adopted, his original birth certificate became sealed by court order, and a new birth certificate was issued in it's place under the name of Barry Soetoro. Lolo Soetoro becomes and remains the legal father of Barry Soetoro until 1971, when Barry is living with his grandmother, and his Alleged father "Barack Obama Sr." and his mother Stanley Ann Soetoro, just happen to be visiting Hawaii during Christmas at the exact same time.
Subsequent review of Hawaiian law indicates that the Birth Father can assert his parental right regarding subsequent adoptions of his child, and that either he or the existing adopted father could give permission for the child to be adopted by someone else, i.e. his Grandmother. Since Stanley Ann was still married to Soetoro, and appears to not want him to have known about this, my guess is that she needed Barack Sr. to sign some papers, and that was the reason for his 1971 visit. (During their divorce, she tried to stick Lolo Soetoro with education expenses for Barry.)
As it is well known that Madelyn Dunham took care of Barry as a minor for the next 8 years, it is perfectly reasonable to conclude that she either obtained legal guardianship of him, or outright adopted him. My guess is that she adopted him, because it was the safest way to insure he retained his American Citizenship.
Barry may have obtained a new name of "Barry Dunham" or he may have been permitted to continue using his original name of "Barack Obama", or he may have just did it anyway.
It is apparent that Barry used the name "Barack Obama" to go to school, and likely he claimed to be a foreign student from Kenya in efforts to acquire student loans or scholarships. None of this mattered much to anyone until he started running for the Presidency.
Suddenly he needed to establish that he was born in Hawaii, and that everything he told everyone was true. At this point, both his original birth certificate, AND his subsequent birth certificate from Adoption by Lolo Soetoro were sealed by court order, (Due to the subsequent adoption by Grandma Dunham.) so Barry couldn't simply produce an original birth certificate which showed him as having been born in Hawaii.
He COULD get a COLB based on the records in their files, but people were getting pushy about seeing the original. To resolve the problem, Barry sent his lawyers to petition a Hawaiian court to have his adoptions annulled, and as a consequence of doing this, the court could order DOH to produce a new replacement birth certificate document that was designed to resemble an original 1961 birth certificate.
Sure, he could have had the original unsealed, but if it was based on an inconclusive document such as an affidavit of at home birth, it would not serve his purpose at all. It would merely add fuel to the fire. I think his attorneys went to court and got a Judge to order the creation of a new document in response to a petition to annul his previous documents.
Sure, it's a pretty long path to get there, but all the evidence of which I am aware fits into this explanation like a puzzle piece.
Now you can see if you can find a hole in it.
“prior to 2006, I think he consistently claimed that he was from Kenya.”
Here is a New York Times article from February 6, 1990, pre-literary agent bio, that says he was born in Hawaii.
“The new president of the Review is Barack Obama, a 28-year-old graduate of Columbia University who spent four years heading a community development program for poor blacks on Chicago’s South Side before enrolling in law school. His late father, Barack Obama, was a finance minister in Kenya and his mother, Ann Dunham, is an American anthropologist now doing fieldwork in Indonesia. Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii.”
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/06/us/first-black-elected-to-head-harvard-s-law-review.html
And he also wrote a book (1995) that talks about his being born in Hawaii.
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