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To: Alamo-Girl

AG: I perceive Adam was created in the spiritual realm before he was banished to mortality, the physical realm, and his mortal calendar/clock began

Spirited: Church Fathers such as Augustine and later Doctors such as Aquinas would disagree with your position. Adam was not a pure spirit for from the beginning he had a material body within which was fully embedded a spirit/soul.

His knowledge was of two kinds. First, by means of abstraction from his sense perceptions, and second, from the powers and faculties of his spirit-soul which in its’ prefall condition reached out beyond the body. (St Thomas)

In “Occult Phenomena,” Alois Wiesinger, O.C.S.O. describes Adams prefall spirit-soul gifts in terms of “certain angelic powers (that allowed for participation) in the nature of pure spirits.” (p. 79)

From this the holy Fathers deduced that Adam, “like the mystics, intuitively beheld God, the creation of the world, and the purpose thereof, the principles of law and morals and all that was necessary for him as head and instructor of the human race.” (ibid, p. 81)

Hence Adam possessed an angelic intelligence shown “particularly in the fact that he gave names to the animals,” an act highly rated by St. Augustine as an act of the highest wisdom.

By means of Adams spiritual powers he was able to avoid all dangers to his health and so achieved freedom from suffering and death, for though God created man incorruptible, Adams immortality was “not that of the blessed in heaven, who can no longer die (for Adam there) was simply the possibility of not dying. Our first parents, thanks to their spiritual powers, were able to avoid the causes of death, which are either external, like the mischances of nature, or internal, like sickness...” (ibid, p. 82)

God has said “I am the Lord” (Levitcus) In this light can be seen the gravity of the disobedience of Adam and Eve. The forbidden fruit symbolizes Gods’ necessary demand that man and all of creation remains dependent on Him, for life is of God only.

By eating the fruit the human race refuses this recognition by the “act of appropriating to his own use the fruits of the tree in the middle of Paradise, and in doing so makes use of creation to his own desires, as though he were himself the lord of all. This act of disobedience represented the complete reversal of order (evil), an act of rebellion and revolt by which the Creator was rejected and condemned (as Creator of suffering and death) and the creature unlawfully assumed the mastery.” (ibid, p. 92)

The consequences of this act were terrible. Adam and Eve lost the “love and friendship of God...the sanctifying grace and the infused virtues, lost all the gifts...designed to elevate, strengthen and perfect his nature. That nature therefore now remained dependent on itself and, being thus weakened, came under the domination of matter.” (p. 92)

With the loss of supernatural and preternatural gifts the material bodies of Adam and Eve within which their souls were embedded became subject to corruption, that is decay and death (Law of Entropy). And their wills, which had previously maintained dominion over the body, allowing it freedom from concupiscence, ceased to be immune, thus concupiscence drew it toward all things opposite to the nature and character of God, and this is what we call sin, or evil.

24 posted on 07/21/2012 4:26:30 AM PDT by spirited irish
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To: spirited irish; betty boop; Thermopylae; AU72; YHAOS; marron; metmom; TXnMA; spunkets
Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dear spirited irish, and those of Alois Wiesinger!

All nature is subject to the second law of thermodynamics. And that includes physically living things. Even the lowly amoeba which cannot die except by outside influence (is not subject to programmed cell death aka apoptosis) must pay the thermodynamic tab by dissipating heat into the local environment, i.e. metabolism or in information theory the reduction of uncertainty in the molecular machine as it moves from a before state to an after state (Shannon, Schneider et al.)

In my view, Adam and therefore his offspring once banished to mortality retained their supernatural being as compared to strictly natural beings and therefore the patriarchs lived exceptionally long lives. That is, they lived long lives until the Noah flood when all such beings were destroyed and the only surviving Adamic men (Noah and family) were cursed to shorter lives.

Or to put it another way, I perceive God's judgment in the Noah flood was targeted to the watcher-angels, their offspring and Adamic man whom they had corrupted - and everything else they corrupted on the earth.

And it cometh to pass that mankind have begun to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters have been born to them, and sons of God see the daughters of men that they [are] fair, and they take to themselves women of all whom they have chosen.

And Jehovah saith, `My Spirit doth not strive in man -- to the age; in their erring they [are] flesh:' and his days have been an hundred and twenty years.

The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them -- they [are] the heroes, who, from of old, [are] the men of name.

And Jehovah seeth that abundant [is] the wickedness of man in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart only evil all the day; and Jehovah repenteth that He hath made man in the earth, and He grieveth Himself -- unto His heart.

And Jehovah saith, `I wipe away man whom I have prepared from off the face of the ground, from man unto beast, unto creeping thing, and unto fowl of the heavens, for I have repented that I have made them.' - Genesis 6:1-7 (Young's literal translation)

A flood targeted to destroy Adamic men and watcher angels and all they touched is also consistent with the book of Enoch which is quoted several times in the New Testament. A targeted flood is also consistent with the physical record though of course scientists must attribute all causes to nature and thus they speculate the cause as comets during the Bronze Age:

At some time around 2300 BC, give or take a century or two, a large number of the major civilisations of the world collapsed, simultaneously it seems. The Akkadian Empire in Mesopotamia, the Old Kingdom in Egypt, the Early Bronze Age civilisation in Israel, Anatolia and Greece, as well as the Indus Valley civilisation in India, the Hilmand civilisation in Afghanistan and the Hongshan Culture in China - the first urban civilisations in the world - all fell into ruin at more or less the same time. Why? …

Since the damage was far too excessive and did not show signs of military or human involvement, he argued that repeated earthquakes might have been responsible for these events. At the time he published, Schaeffer was not taken seriously by the world of archaeology. Since then, however, natural scientists have found widespread and unambiguous evidence for abrupt climate change, sudden sea level changes, catastrophic inundations, widespread seismic activity and evidence for massive volcanic activity at several periods since the last Ice Age, but particularly at around 2200BC, give or take 200 years.

Areas such as the Sahara, or around the Dead Sea, were once farmed but became deserts. Tree rings show disastrous growth conditions at c 2350BC, while sediment cores from lakes and rivers in Europe and Africa show a catastrophic drop in water levels at this time. In Mesopotamia, vast areas of land appear to have been devastated, inundated, or totally burned...

Comets and Disasters in the Bronze Age

As I said before though, I do not expect anyone else to agree with my view of such things. And certainly I would expect neither Augustine nor Aquinas to agree. After all, Filastrius in the 390s (Liber de haeresibus) condemned the Book of Enoch even though it was referenced in Jude 14-15, 2 Peter 2:4, Luke 9:35 etc.

Even if they knew it existed, they could not know its true antiquity which was recently confirmed by a copy being found in the Dead Sea Scrolls in the 1940s. The book, and therefore its insight, was banned and removed by the Church for over a thousand years even though Justin Martyr, Athenagoras, Tatian, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen and others accepted it.

But everything happens according to God's will and timing, including when we are to know what:

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. - Daniel 12:4

God's Name is I AM.

26 posted on 07/21/2012 11:52:36 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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