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Military in Iraq Used 70M Rounds of Ammo Annually: DHS Ordered 750M Rounds in One Month
Sodahead, Keys to Liberty Blog, the Examiner copied onto Maggie's Notebook ^ | 8-21-12

Posted on 08/21/2012 7:32:45 PM PDT by maggiesnotebook

We've seen our Government buy a lot of ammunition lately and we have speculated 'why?' Is this routine? Do we do this every year? Are the purchase amounts in-line with what has been happening since the Bush Administration and September 11, 2001 - which changed everything? We don't know. Is the Government buying up ammo so a shortage occurs for you and me? Are we the targets? We don't know. We don't know why even the Social Security Agency is armed, while our Border Agents patrol with bean bag guns. One Retired Army Major General says the Military in Iraq used a mere 70 MILLION rounds of ammunition per year. "Compare that with the 750 million rounds of hollow point bullets that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) ordered in March." Maybe we are getting some history after all, and keep in mind, these numbers do not include the purchases of the Pentagon/Department of Defense.

pics on Sodahead

The Washington, D.C. police have ordered 600,000 rounds of Hollow Points. This is the Police Department. Add that to the other armed agencies in that city, and if Americans want to stand on the steps of Capitol Hill as the TEA Party did on the day and evening that ObamaCare was passed - well, they might not be able to do so.

The Department of State needs "Mechanical Breaching Tools."

John Roller at Keys to Liberty found that the Department of Homeland Security purchased, and has already received, twelve 50-caliber machine guns. He provided a link to the site homepage but I didn't find the machine guns. My eyes glaze over when I'm looking at a lot of numbers and decimals and abbreviations. I'm not that familiar with weaponry. He found it and I have no problem believing it.

If you go to the FedBiz link and do a search on Homeland Security, you will find that they have already purchased 12- 50 caliber machine guns and the ammunition to go with them...

The post didn’t specify how much ammunition because it was already a ‘done deal’. This is ‘heavy duty’ stuff, at close range a 50 caliber will penetrate 2 inches of aluminum, 32 inches of pine and 21 inches of wet earth. [FedBizOpps.gov]

Roller found that Homeland Security, at least in once instance, issued separate bids for "training" ammo and for "duty" ammo. So as we watch the number of rounds purchased reach about 1 BILLION, and NOT DESIGNATED for the various arms of the US Military, isn't it more than a little scary? I call again for Congress - our elected representatives, to tell us what is going on.

The Examiner:

On Friday the government stated that the hollow point bullets it has procured are "standard issue" and that they are used to train security agents used by each of the various federal agencies...

When this reporter first heard the government's explanation for the hollow point bullets, the warning bells immediately rang indicating a cover up. As every gun owner knows if they are serious about developing and maintaining their shooting skills, the type of bullets used for practice at the firing range are normally different from the ammunition one would use when getting the firearm set to be used in the event of a home invasion or other situations in which one's life is in mortal danger.

Firing range bullets are much less expensive and are not designed for the day to day use of the gun for maximum self protection. One uses the more expensive variety, such as hollow point bullets, for real-life danger.

Thus, immediately this reporter knew that when the government claimed that its agencies had purchased multimillions of rounds of hollow point bullets for "practice and training" at the firing range, something was amiss. Most citizens are likely unaware that such ammo is not used for practice and will accept the government's explanation at face value. This is in all likelihood what the Feds are counting on.

In a previous article I wrote about the purchase of hollow points, and said they were illegal in the use of warfare. I got called-out soundly on that, and was further told the purpose of using hollow points is that they expand inside a body and do not exit, keeping by-standers safer.

Retired Army Major General Jerry Curry said these procurements and the Government's explanation for them, doesn't pass the smell test (see Examiner link above).

Hollow point bullets are so lethal that the Geneva Convention does not allow their use on the battle field in time of war. Hollow point bullets don’t just stop or hurt people, they penetrate the body, spread out, fragment and cause maximum damage to the body’s organs. Death often follows....

 I fear that Congress won’t take these ammunition purchases seriously until they are all led from Capitol Hill in handcuffs. Why buy all this ammunition unless you plan to use it. Unknown to Congress, Does DHS plan to declare war on some country? Shouldn’t Congress hold hearings on why the Administration is stockpiling this ammunition all across the nation? How will it be used; what are the Administration’s plans?

About the past history of purchases, Examiner writer Anthony Martin writes (see Examiner link above):

In addition, Curry noted that during the Iraq War the U.S. military used 70 million rounds of ammunition per year. Compare that with the 750 million rounds of hollow point bullets that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) ordered in March. And then it further ordered another 750 million rounds of various types of ammunition, some of which can penetrate walls.

Natural News reports that all contract purchases for ammo has reached 1.4 BILLION rounds. I cannot confirm it but when you look at websites, it's not difficult to believe it.

More from Keys to Liberty (linked above):

...they are purchasing Explosives as well, and have contracts out for Training Courses. Look what the course includes: “Counter Terrorist Search courses will include: components of Improvised Explosive Devices, Actions on a Find, relevant case studies (current threat), theory and practical exercises on vehicle search, route search, area search, venue search, and simple indirect fire surveys”. This order is also headed for Artesia, New Mexico, (mentioned in the above link) it is for various types of ammunition
Looking through the Homeland Security bid site, I see numerous smaller ammo solicitations. This one calls for multiple contracts for 1,000 rounds annually of "Commercial Leaded Training Ammunition," guaranteed for a 4 years period. We also order 9MM "blank" ammo for training.

The IntelHub reports "In November 2011 the FBI posted a request to the FBO.gov website for up to 100,000,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition." Also interesting, the FBI "reserves the right" to fixed price indefinite-delivery indefinite-quantity type contract." Ain't it great to be Government? Remember the National Defense Resources Preparedness Act (NDRP) - they can confiscate all of America's resources, including our waters, and they don't have to pay you for it. In the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) legislation, there were provisions that no monies can be used for advocating FOR gun control. The NRA claims Obama issued a 'Signing Statement' overriding that Second Amendment safeguard.

Disclaimer: I cannot vouch for the the graphic above being a real Newsweek cover, but I see it numerous places, including at Veteran's Today.

I'm not alone in calling for Congress to PAY ATTENTION and start talking. Many thanks to Laura Alcorn at Patriot Action Network for her hard work and tips provided for this article. Also thanks to Before It's News and to DeesIllustrations.com for the second photo. Read PumabyDesign - Motto of the Progressive Elitists "When all else fails, just shoot them."

Background and Related:

Judge Napolitano: No Free Speech in Presence of Secret Service 

Obama Signing Statement: Can Use Omnibus Funding for Gun Control

National Defense Authorization Act is Law: Rand Paul on Patriot Act and American Liberty

National Defense Authorization Act - Rendition - Detaining American's. The Reality?

Social Security Administration Buys 174,000 Hollow Point Bullets: Border Patrol Armed with Bean Bags

Government Grabbing Water Again: Sues New Mexico for Water Rights

DHS Millions of Rounds of Ammo: BulletProof CheckPoint Orders

UN Arms Trade Treaty to Control Weapons: UN Refuses to Define Terrorism


TOPICS: Military/Veterans; Politics
KEYWORDS: ammo; armedgovt; banglist; cw2; cwiiping; dhs; hollowpoints; policestate; shtf

1 posted on 08/21/2012 7:33:03 PM PDT by maggiesnotebook
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To: maggiesnotebook

The question I have is who would be firing on the American people?

Most military and LEOs are still loyal enough that they would remove the uniform before they would fire upon Americans enmasse.


2 posted on 08/21/2012 7:37:55 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: maggiesnotebook

We don't know why even the Social Security Agency is armed, while our Border Agents patrol with bean bag guns.


3 posted on 08/21/2012 7:40:32 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Had enough of the freaks running the show yet?)
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To: maggiesnotebook

Lets see here. 750 million rounds of .40 cal and about 72,000 rds per pallet. 36 wire-bound wooden boxes per pallet with 2,000 rounds per wire-bound wooden box.

750 million / 72,000 rds = 10,417 ammo pallets.

Yes that’s officially a lot of ammo for the Department of Homeland Security. So where is DHS going to store all of that .40 cal? In military munition storage buildings or igloos?


4 posted on 08/21/2012 7:59:50 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: maggiesnotebook

crap comparison. buying and using are 2 different things.

the questions about “why” these Fed & Local agencies are buying this much ammo haven’t been adequately answered.

And why do they need “Prima Sheet” explosives ?

And why do they need drones ?

And why is FEMA activating detainment camps ?

And why are 20k military troops trained for “domestic security” ?

and why....etc, etc,


5 posted on 08/21/2012 8:01:46 PM PDT by stylin19a (Obama -> Ransom "Rance" Stoddard)
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To: stylin19a

My guess is that Obama and his administration are preparing for their wildest dreams and engaging in wishful thinking. A totalitarian state.


6 posted on 08/21/2012 8:05:53 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: FReepers


Aim your fire here.

7 posted on 08/21/2012 8:11:37 PM PDT by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: Jonty30

Many are careerist who will obey any order to keep their pay check and move up the organization. How many officers kept their oath and questioned Obama’s Constitutional legitimacy? Only 1 I know of. The rest just go along with the system for fear of losing their precious retirement.


8 posted on 08/21/2012 8:35:17 PM PDT by JohnKinAK
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To: Jonty30

Me thinks you count a bit too much on our soldiers thinking independently with a willingness to disobey orders. Soldiers are trained and molded to obey orders instantly and without question, and not to think on their own. It is the hallmark of every military world wide.

To the point though; American soliders have fired on civilians before - - they will again.


9 posted on 08/21/2012 8:35:31 PM PDT by Ed Story
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To: Jonty30

That’s enough rounds for a double tap for every man, woman and child in the U.S.A. including the military and LEOs.


10 posted on 08/21/2012 8:44:33 PM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again.")
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To: maggiesnotebook; Travis McGee; Jack Black

Heads up! Good article with a lot of unanswered questions.


11 posted on 08/21/2012 8:55:27 PM PDT by Perseverando (Gun control? It's the OBOTS who are filling up prisons for violent crimes, not the Tea Party.)
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To: Red Steel
750 million / 72,000 rds = 10,417 ammo pallets.

I calculate that as roughly 650 truck loads.

12 posted on 08/21/2012 8:57:46 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: Perseverando

I recently saw a Mac-10 clone chambered in 5.7x28.
It uses the FNC pistol magazine that holds 20 rounds, expandable to
30 with a conversion kit. (10 rounds for you poor saps in CA.)

I considered getting it until I found out the store had been out of
ammo for two months. Apparently someone is taking all the the stuff produced and there is precious little left over. It is a fairly obscure cartridge and there are only a couple of production sources.

Also, it operates at pretty high pressure and the cases have a special coating to make them feed properly so reloading is tricky.


13 posted on 08/21/2012 9:15:43 PM PDT by alpo (What would Selco do?)
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To: Ed Story

I do believe that the soldiers, currently serving the military, and the LEO’s currently in law enforcement will not kill hundreds of thousands or millions of Americans as things currently stand. I do have faith in those currently serving that they will not do that.

However, I cannot guarentee that those serving the country thirty years from now will be so unwilling to do that.

Yes, soldiers have fired on civilians in very specific situations in the past, but not the sort of mass kills that would be required for a dictator to take over the country.


14 posted on 08/21/2012 10:47:30 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Jonty30

I’m afraid that if a bunch of cops showed up at someone’s house, kicked in the door and hauled a guy off kicking and screaming, and maybe even shot the family dog, the rest of the families on the street would do nothing. Oh, wait. That happens all the time.

Cops shoot citizens all the time. The military has been used against civilians since Ruby Ridge. And it’s getting worse. Putting a man, who was recently trained on an army post, in an Army tank and saying he’s not military doesn’t make it so.

No different than training a fat deputy sheriff to operate a military drone. I guess it’s technically civilian equipment since the military sold it to the sheriff’s department. But it’s exactly what the founding fathers were worried about. There’s a reason they wanted well trained militias, something we don’t have.


15 posted on 08/21/2012 11:09:49 PM PDT by Terry Mross (To all my relatives and former friends: Do not contact me if you still love obama.)
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To: Terry Mross

When the army mows down entire towns, which is what would basically be required for a dictator, I will admit that I was wrong. But that is what it would take to do it.

Isolated incidents, as wrong as they might be, would not get the American people to throw down their weapons enmasse. Idaho did not surrender its constitutional rights because of what happened at Ruby Ridge.

When I see a B-52 bomber drop a load over Kansas, I will believe you that the military, as it currently stands, is willing to turn on the American people and over throw a Constitutional-Republican government.


16 posted on 08/21/2012 11:20:23 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: maggiesnotebook

Self ping


17 posted on 08/21/2012 11:24:13 PM PDT by commonguymd
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To: maggiesnotebook

Buy up the supply, then outlaw the manufacturing of the product.


18 posted on 08/22/2012 1:35:27 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: Ed Story

Anybody trusting the military not to fire on US citizens had better read up on the Bonus Army. MacArthur ordered - AND SOLDIERS COMPLIED - the use of tanks and tear gas against the Bonus Army.

As Ronaldus Magnus once said: “Trust, but verify”, we should say today: “Trust, but expect the worst.”


19 posted on 08/22/2012 2:19:17 AM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: All

And just for a little twist a secretive think tank funded by a Presidential committee several decades ago has just finished the first test phase of a portable handgun that requires no cased ammunition, is nearly silent and has rifle like range accuracy.
The miniature railgun can use small .177 caliber pellets or BBs that are launched at hyper velocity speeds. The plans and components will be available to every citizen of the United States.

Rumors persist that imminent designs of a Star Trek style phaser will soon be available after a revolutionary power capacitor leap has been achieved. Now almost anyone can have a real phaser. So just what good is billions of rounds of ammo against a nation armed with something a bit higher in tech?

yes its satire.

Or is it?


20 posted on 08/22/2012 3:34:06 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (OPSEC)
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To: maggiesnotebook; Eaker; Absolutely Nobama; afnamvet; AK2KX; Ancesthntr; An Old Man; APatientMan; ...

CW2 Ping




21 posted on 08/22/2012 4:46:05 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee
UP!!! guess they know something we don't...
22 posted on 08/22/2012 4:53:06 AM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: alpo
I considered getting it until I found out the store had been out of ammo for two months. Apparently someone is taking all the the stuff produced and there is precious little left over. It is a fairly obscure cartridge and there are only a couple of production sources.

The FN 5.7 cartridge has developed a real following among the cartel types along the Mexican border. That alone could account for an ammo shortage (though the drug gangs are also getting their hands on the military-spec ammo that we aren't allowed to purchase).

23 posted on 08/22/2012 5:02:24 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: Chode

I don’t think they are prophetic or have been given a script of events. You cannot keep secrets of a magnitude of this size.

But my prediction is this, many morons especially the inner city populations are convinced something will happen just before Christmas as per the 2012 conspiracy theories and they will riot, smash windows, rob liquor stores like there will be no tomorrow.

And thats the words, “Like there will be no Tomorrow”


24 posted on 08/22/2012 5:02:43 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (OPSEC)
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To: Jonty30

This is one officer who won’t.

Of course, I am sceptical of the government, and I am convinced that the federal government is creeping toward federalizing all police under the guise of dealing with “unusual occurrences”. Look up NIMS, LE agencies are mandated to participate in it. This was created after 9/11 and Katrina. Agencies that don’t participate in federal programs don’t get federal money. That fed grant money buys equipment, enforcement details, extra officers, etc, and woe to administrators that do not avail themselves of it.

We are also seeing the rank and file police officers being trained in urban infantry tactics under the banner of fighting terrorism. That definition is a little nebulous of late and who will have the stronger propaganda machine, the average citizen or the government?

I am afraid many of my colleagues are content to work, then go home and watch the ballgame without ever considering what is going on around the world. Some, but not all. Some are VERY aware and want nothing to do with any gun grabs, roundups, or anything of the like.

When the fedgov stretches out it’s hand, saying that it will take care of me and my family if I will get on the team, I am fully capable of telling them “no” and throwing my badge on the desk.


25 posted on 08/22/2012 6:02:55 AM PDT by Molon Labbie (Prep. Now. Live Healthy, take your Shooting Iron daily.)
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To: Jonty30

“I do have faith in those currently serving that they will not do that.”

Most 18-22 year olds have no moral compass or any idea the difference between right and wrong. We have an entire generation without any recognizable parental discipline having been applied. They’ll do it.

Many 25-35 year olds are the Gen X/Y. They are about as screwed up as any. They are angry, arrogant, and ignorant of this nation’s history. They don’t see this as the land of opportunity but the land that was created by oppression. They do not value its founding principles. They’ll do it.

More than half of the younger population has been brainwashed in public schools, media, and the Internet to be extreme left-wing liberals and to hate Christians, conservatives, and most “older people” they deem at fault. They’ll do it.

Many would question their orders and not fully understand if what they are being asked to do is wrong or what to do about their doubt of the lawfulness of those orders, but liberals are heavy handed and would squash any dissent quickly and brutally as they usually do. They’ll do it.

The military has been recruiting heavily for foreigners, many are illegal aliens. They’ll do it.

The military recruits heavily from inner cities, tapping the anger of racism. They’ll do it.

The military appeases liberals through creating “Wiccan Churches” and creating all female units. They’ll do it.

The military recruits from the homosexual communities. They’ll do it.

The military has been promoting via Affirmative Action and has many in higher ranks undeserving but loyal to those they know promoted them. They’ll do it.

All 3 & 4 star Generals are political appointments (Most people don’t know that), although some might resign, they’ll do it.

The political and military plans are for UN cooperation in times of civil unrest. They’ll do it.

They won’t ask the military to attack an “American”; they’ll call you a “Domestic Terrorist” first. They’ll do it.

This isn’t your or your parent’s military anymore. There are many in the military that are patriotic Americans, but many are not and that has been by design.


26 posted on 08/22/2012 8:02:58 AM PDT by CodeToad (Anticipate their arrival...they won't.)
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To: Molon Labbie

“NIMS”

Yep, without question, NIMS was the federal government’s way of controlling county Sheriff’s departments, all of them. The feds made the law such that failure to follow NIMS places the “offending” government at risk of liability and loss of federal monies. Since the feds take in half of all monies collected by taxation, that results in approximately half of all funding sources.

NIMS also includes every government function, including the school systems.

NIMS mandates ALL local government functions, including those school systems, fire departments, police, Sheriff, DOT, etc. respond to the “authority” of the federal government. The mantra is “No more Katrina’s!”


27 posted on 08/22/2012 8:24:10 AM PDT by CodeToad (Anticipate their arrival...they won't.)
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To: Ed Story; All

Yes they have look up the Bonus army or bonus march of 1932 .


28 posted on 08/22/2012 11:02:21 AM PDT by Nebr FAL owner
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To: CodeToad

What is NIMS ? kindly give a clue as to where to look for more info.


29 posted on 08/22/2012 11:09:08 AM PDT by Nebr FAL owner
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To: maggiesnotebook; ExTexasRedhead

Pow for later read ...................................... FRegards


30 posted on 08/22/2012 1:41:38 PM PDT by gonzo ( Buy more ammo, dammit! You should already have the firearms ... FRegards)
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To: CodeToad

A local cop told me about certain “tags” that are put in all LE bulletins to direct them to fed attention. One, I think, was SAR. Not search and rescue. It is all being tied into one net. But....intel flows both ways.


31 posted on 08/22/2012 1:42:32 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Nebr FAL owner

NIMS: National Incident Management System.


32 posted on 08/22/2012 1:59:38 PM PDT by CodeToad (Anticipate their arrival...they won't.)
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To: Travis McGee

Very well could be tagged, but I also think the feds know of all LEO sources and scan everything. Hell, I may not be important to anyone but I have no doubt anything and everything I post or email is scanned for at least interesting content.


33 posted on 08/22/2012 2:11:30 PM PDT by CodeToad (Anticipate their arrival...they won't.)
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To: CodeToad

But it’s an entirely different level between a small group the government has labeled rogue and the entire population of the United States.

I can agree that military personnel might be willing to take out, on orders, a small group that has been labeled a threat, but I do not believe that the military would do that with the whole US population.

But we will see.


34 posted on 08/22/2012 2:14:18 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: Jonty30

“but I do not believe that the military would do that with the whole US population.”

Of course not, and I don’t believe anyone would ever give such as order. I do believe they’ll be given local orders, lots and lots of them, to have the same affect.


35 posted on 08/22/2012 2:20:24 PM PDT by CodeToad (Anticipate their arrival...they won't.)
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To: Eye of Unk
i wouldn't bet against it...
36 posted on 08/22/2012 2:55:48 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Ed Story
Soldiers are trained and molded to obey orders instantly and without question, and not to think on their own.

You have obviously never served in the US military. That is not the operating philosophy at all. It is with other militaries, but not ours. That is precisely what has distinguished our military from all the rest, even before we developed all of the cool gadgets. With the Left packing the military with homos and other assorted anti-American culture types, the level of loyalty may change, but I can tell you, as a former grunt, that until recently, the majority of our troops would balk at killing civilians on our own soil.
37 posted on 08/22/2012 4:23:25 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: Chode

Neither would I.


38 posted on 08/23/2012 7:41:09 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker
no matter who wins, i have a feeling something wicked this way comes...
39 posted on 08/23/2012 3:05:45 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: maggiesnotebook

More info-

http://clashdaily.com/2012/08/dhs-hides-new-ammo-purchase-following-controversy-news-clashsm-feature/


40 posted on 08/23/2012 3:36:16 PM PDT by matthew fuller (They'll have to pry my gun, my bible, and my chikin from my cold dead fingers.)
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To: matthew fuller

matthew fuller, thank you. Unbelievable.


41 posted on 08/25/2012 4:03:55 PM PDT by maggiesnotebook
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