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Made In Romania: 58 mpg Ford B-Max
Transsylvania Phoenix ^ | 08/29/2012 | Transsylvania Phoenix

Posted on 08/29/2012 9:28:16 AM PDT by .454Puma

I always said small diesel automobiles are the future...not hybrids, not electric cars. I used to be a Chevy guy, but no more; Ford is the American automobile company to watch. With his new 58 mpg turbo-diesel B-Max model (sold in Europe), Ford demonstrates clean diesel technology is the future. Not hybrid, not electric, not pixie-dust powered.

(Excerpt) Read more at transsylvaniaphoenix.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Hobbies; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: automakers; bmax; diesel; energy; ford; fordmotor; hybrids
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1 posted on 08/29/2012 9:28:22 AM PDT by .454Puma
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To: .454Puma

The EPA will not allow these engines made out of the country to come into the USA to keep union power.


2 posted on 08/29/2012 9:31:17 AM PDT by mountainlion (I am voting for Sarah after getting screwed again by the DC Thugs.)
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To: .454Puma

VW has been selling high mileage Diesels in the US for quite a while.


3 posted on 08/29/2012 9:31:27 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: mountainlion

“The EPA will not allow these engines made out of the country to come into the USA to keep union power.”

I very seriously doubt that anyone in the EPA could pass an Engineering 101 course.

Or, for that matter, an Ethics 101 course.


4 posted on 08/29/2012 9:36:45 AM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: Da Coyote

Really, is that the reason that we don’t have those engines in this country? That is really unbelievable.

Here we have a federal agency that is hell bent on taxing every carbon based discharge from industry, farms and even people, pushing alternative energy of all kinds to reduce carbon footprints, that refuses to allow Ford to bring in an engine that runs on less gas than any engine that is produced in this country.


5 posted on 08/29/2012 9:40:33 AM PDT by Eva
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To: .454Puma

1984 VW Rabbit Diesel 35 city, 43 highway.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/26786.shtml

Its not about fuel mileage....


6 posted on 08/29/2012 9:40:52 AM PDT by Mechanicos (When did we amend the Constitution for a 2nd Federal Prohibition?)
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To: .454Puma
High mileage quiet diesel - GOOD IDEA

Tiny shoebox with no accident protection - BAD IDEA!


7 posted on 08/29/2012 9:41:40 AM PDT by Baynative
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To: Mechanicos

It is my understanding that both ford and VW have @70 mpg cars for sale in Europe. I think the Ford is called the Ka. (that would sell well in the Boston area)


8 posted on 08/29/2012 9:43:25 AM PDT by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: .454Puma

Transsylvania? How many miles to a pint of blood?


9 posted on 08/29/2012 9:45:34 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Corollary - Electing the same person over and over and expecting a different outcome is insanity)
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To: Baynative

Yuz payz yuz money and yiu make yuz choice ... good idea.

btw, even tiny shoebox offers more protection than motorcycle.


10 posted on 08/29/2012 9:46:17 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana ("I love to watch you talk talk talk, but I hate what I hear you say."-Del Shannon)
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To: .454Puma; sully777; vigl; Cagey; Abathar; A. Patriot; B Knotts; getsoutalive; muleskinner; ...
Rest In Peace, old friend, your work is finished..... If you want ON or OFF the DIESEL ”KnOcK” LIST jut FReepmail me..... This is a fairly HIGH VOLUME ping list on some days.....
11 posted on 08/29/2012 9:46:21 AM PDT by Red Badger (Anyone who thinks wisdom comes with age is either too young or too stupid to know the difference....)
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To: Eva

It is because in USA we produce a lot less diesel which is regarded as dirty, and also in lot less lower volume than gas, so they restrict the number of passenger vehicles so as not to take the diesel supply away from trucks and so nobody pressures them to allow more diesel to be made. They control demand and supply via regulation.


12 posted on 08/29/2012 9:47:31 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Paladin2

“VW has been selling high mileage Diesels in the US for quite a while.”

Own 3 right now, one is touching 420,000 miles with no problems.


13 posted on 08/29/2012 9:47:50 AM PDT by WILLIALAL
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To: Paladin2
What kind of deal did the EPA and the feds strike with VW to allow them to keep importing diesel cars? I worked for chrysler, at the time they were working on offering diesel engines for virtually every vehicle in their line up. I know, I drove the prototypes. They had phenomenal power and mileage. The EPA told them NO, they cannot be sold on the US market, period. Daimler dumped Chrysler the following year. The funny thing is, the engines we were running in the prototypes were made by the same company that made them for VW. The EPA is a racket shakedown scam, completely devoid of any scientific principles.
14 posted on 08/29/2012 9:48:22 AM PDT by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it.)
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To: Baynative

You can either have great gas mileage or safety, for me and my family, I will take the safety...things can be replaced people can’t....


15 posted on 08/29/2012 9:52:46 AM PDT by rxtn41
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To: Eva

There’s a viscous circle keeping diesel vehicles out of the US. It’s not very popular with drivers, in part because it’s still not readily available in parts of the country, of course part of why it’s not readily available is the limited demand. Slowly but surely it’s gaining popularity, making more demand, and more availability. But it’s a long road.


16 posted on 08/29/2012 9:55:25 AM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: Mechanicos

it is however, all about this...

http://taxfoundation.org/article/state-and-federal-treasuries-profit-more-gasoline-sales-us-oil-industry

and trying to get “this” in place by 2024.....

http://techblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/05/obama-administration-floats-pl.html

Unfortunately, government persists in trying to “maintain” their take of a piece of our freedom of movement and association, rather than adapting to new forms of revenue.


17 posted on 08/29/2012 9:55:25 AM PDT by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: .454Puma

Its the Tucker doctrine, the unions will not allow anything to jeopardize their empire.


18 posted on 08/29/2012 10:00:24 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (OPSEC)
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To: mountainlion

It’s definitely NOT 58 mpg using the US test procedures.

Add in the emission controls to conform to US laws and you’re looking at 35 (that’s what the VWs are rated at).

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&year1=2012&year2=2013&vfuel=Diesel&mclass=Small+Cars,%20Family+Sedans,%20Large+Sedans,%20Upscale+Sedans,%20Luxury+Sedans,%20Hatchbacks,%20Coupes,%20Convertibles,%20Sports/Sporty+Cars,%20Station+Wagons&srchtyp=newDslCars


19 posted on 08/29/2012 10:00:35 AM PDT by nascarnation (Defeat Baraq 2012. Deport Baraq 2013)
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To: Da Coyote

The big difference between those two tests is they would recognize “Engineering” as an actual word.

OTOH the word “Ethics” would totally flummox them.


20 posted on 08/29/2012 10:04:57 AM PDT by null and void (Day 1318 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Obama, a queer and present danger)
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To: Da Coyote

The EPA is basically bureaucrats.

But they have a big budget to contract for technology help.


21 posted on 08/29/2012 10:07:06 AM PDT by nascarnation (Defeat Baraq 2012. Deport Baraq 2013)
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To: discostu

Are the new diesel engines cleaner burning than the old smelly diesels of the eighties?


22 posted on 08/29/2012 10:07:18 AM PDT by Eva
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To: Paladin2

I looked at some of the Audi diesels and they weren’t high mileage, Mercedes, too. There was very little incentive to spend the extra $$ for vehicle that ran on more expensive gas with only a marginal savings in mileage.


23 posted on 08/29/2012 10:10:29 AM PDT by Eva
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To: Eva

Very much so, the ones we drove in Germany you didn’t even know it was running. No fumes to speak of, quiet and it had plenty of get up and go also.

(On the other hand I’m having a hard time hearing my own thoughts because there’s a Dodge Ram with a Cummins engine somewhere close...)


24 posted on 08/29/2012 10:14:11 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: discostu
There’s a viscous circle keeping diesel vehicles out of the US. It’s not very popular with drivers, in part because it’s still not readily available in parts of the country

What part of the country do you think diesel is not readily available?

25 posted on 08/29/2012 10:14:51 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Eva
Are the new diesel engines cleaner burning than the old smelly diesels of the eighties?

Very much different.

Not Your Father's Diesel
http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/21/diesel-cars-future-lifestyle-vehicles-diesel-cars.html

2012 Diesel Cars in USA: Here’s the Lineup
http://www.practicalenvironmentalist.com/automobiles/2012-usa-diesel-cars.htm

26 posted on 08/29/2012 10:19:31 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Abathar

I hear that one flaw with European diesels is that there is so much alcohol in the fuel that the seals and other parts in the engines don’t last. Of course, a car salesman passed on that little tidbit, so whether it’s true or not, I don’t know.


27 posted on 08/29/2012 10:19:39 AM PDT by Eva
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To: factoryrat

I had a 1993 audi 100 full size sedan. 2,5 5 cyl inline turbodiesel. It had mpg of Prius 20 years ago and it wasn’t a dog either. 120 mph easily to keep up with traffic on autobahn. Modern diesels are way ahead. Germans have diesels on luxury cars outperforming larger displacement gas engines in hp and torque at better mpg than average American compact.
For example a European market 7 series BMW 730d has a 3 liter inline 6 diesel as powerful as 306 hp. It takes 6 seconds 0-60, it can go 160 mph. It is a large luxury sedan and it does 34 mpg city/highway.
There are no Pruis and Volt in Europe, they don’t need it and laugh at it.


28 posted on 08/29/2012 10:28:14 AM PDT by cunning_fish (.)
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To: thackney

We looked at diesels when we bought a car last winter, but the mileage savings just didn’t seem to cover the extra cost. We ended up buying a Volvo XC 70, T-6 AWD, that gets 27 mpg, regular gas, not high test.

Our needs are a little different than most peoples, and this vehicle was a perfit fit, literally. My husband is 6’6, and I am 5’4”. We try cars on before we test drive. At the time, I was driving a 1995 850 turbo wagon that we had for 16 years without any repairs, ever. We just had it serviced regularly and replaced a few things that just wore out (and those stupid chips for the emission monitors), but I was getting nervous about long trips and just wanted a new car, with cup holders, at least. So, 27 mpg and the most comfortable seats of all the luxury cars, along with cool blue tooth technology, and I’m happy. I haven’t tried it in the snow yet. I had the ‘95 fully detailed, even the engine cleaned and the windows tinted and passed it on to my husband, who drives a company car. He’s happy and I’m happy.


29 posted on 08/29/2012 10:36:26 AM PDT by Eva
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To: thackney

Where I live, Tucson. Now most gas station have it, though there’s still some that don’t, but even the ones that do it’s generally 1/8 of the pumps.


30 posted on 08/29/2012 10:36:27 AM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: Eva

Yeah. All the old problems of diesel are pretty much gone, except the ability to pull in front of any random pump at any random gas station.


31 posted on 08/29/2012 10:39:31 AM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: Eva
but the mileage savings just didn’t seem to cover the extra cost

That is what I saw a few years ago as well. Hybrids the same way, but most of them don't fit my utility need anyways.

32 posted on 08/29/2012 10:50:18 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: discostu

If most of the gas stations have it, how is it not readily available?

I don’t consider learning which local station lack a diesel pump the same as not available. And I have commonly found that a station that sells diesel, has a big sign out front with a diesel price. It just is not that hard to find. Learning to look for the different colored handle is not that hard.


33 posted on 08/29/2012 10:53:30 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: cunning_fish

MPG for a prius is a joke. The diesel VW rabbits from the early 80’s could get 50MPG all day long. The highest CAFE MPG ratings for US vehicles was for the 1989-1990 model years. For that reason I refuse to buy a vehicle built after 1995, when the OBDII specs. went into effect. The early 1990’s vehicle were some of the best fuel efficient vehicles ever built. As an example, I had a 1992 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup with a 5speed and a 350, and I could get 23-24MPG all day long. Now I have an equivalent Ford F-150, and I’m lucky if I get 14MPG, with a smaller 5.4l engine no less. That truck was sold, and now I have an old scout that gets around 20MPG, even though it’s 36 years old.


34 posted on 08/29/2012 10:55:05 AM PDT by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it.)
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To: thackney

Because it’s not at ALL the gas stations. And even at the stations that have it it’s not at ALL the pumps.

You might not consider it not readily available, but it is. If you have a gas car you can pull in front of any pump at any station in Tucson (and other chunks of the southwest I find myself in) and be able to fill your car. Ready availability. If you have a diesel car you have to make sure the station has it AND then pull in front of the right pump, which will be in the distinct minority and could be occupied by people getting gas. Not readily available.

I didn’t say it was that hard to find. I said it was not readily available. Simple English sentence, and also true. As soon as you have to start aiming for the right pumps at the right stations ready availability is lost, now you’re at limited availability. Which isn’t horrible, but is distinctly different, and a reason for some people who don’t want to put that much effort into filling the tank to stick with gas.


35 posted on 08/29/2012 11:00:01 AM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: Eva

Yes, I’ve driven them in Italy. They start and drive just like a gasoline vehicle. I didn’t relaize the first one I rented was a diesel until I filled up and the attendant pointed me to the diesel pump.

My issue is I don’t care about mileage, I care about horsepower. I’ve heard that the ‘chip’ guys are getting over 600 horses out of the big block deisels, and 17 mpg with a large heavy pickup. Now, that’s interesting. I want on of those motors installed a small pickup.


36 posted on 08/29/2012 11:01:08 AM PDT by SaxxonWoods (....The days are long, but the years are short.....)
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To: Baynative
I have one of those its just a little over two years old and I just turned over 270k, no problems and 35 mpg. I'm more concerned with cost than crash..
37 posted on 08/29/2012 11:05:00 AM PDT by montanajoe (Blame Flame Shame or Beg I won't vote for R/R)
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To: .454Puma

I’m on my second diesel now and will never go back.My current one is a year old with 15K miles and I hope to keep it another 4-5 years.After that I might downsize to a 4 banger...maybe VW,maybe something else that becomes available over time.


38 posted on 08/29/2012 11:12:53 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Voter ID Equals "No Representation Without Respiration")
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To: discostu; thackney
You might not consider it not readily available, but it is.

I've owned diesels for almost 4 years no and have never even come close to experiencing an emergency cause by an inability to find fuel.That includes having driven in about 25 different states and two Canadian Provinces.It's true that not *all* gas stations sell diesel but more than enough of them do so that it's not a problem.Of course it's not wise to let your gage get to "E",particularly in an unfamiliar area but with diesels it's not wise to do that *anyway*,even if diesel was sold at every single station (different fuel pump design).

39 posted on 08/29/2012 11:21:17 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Voter ID Equals "No Representation Without Respiration")
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To: Triple

Probably British gallons? One Imperial pint = 20 fluid ounces = 1.25 US pints. So 70mpUKg = 56 mpUSg.


40 posted on 08/29/2012 11:21:33 AM PDT by Vide
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To: Paladin2
As long as they stay ahead of the moving EPA regulation target. But just a few years' back, they couldn't sell diesels in the US due to the latest regulation bump.

They are back now, but not in all the cars they were in. IS that because of cost, weight/size? I don't know. There is no longer a 43 MPG HWY Beetle.

41 posted on 08/29/2012 11:23:01 AM PDT by 5thGenTexan
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To: .454Puma

My old 96 Dodge Cummins, with a lot of maintenance, tuning, tweaking and care, gets over 20 mpg, and I’ve loaded over 4000lbs on the back of it. I just hauled 2000lbs over 60 miles, and couldn’t tell I had a load at all. It pulls over 8000lbs of boat and trailer, and still gets around 15 mpg. So I don’t find it at all surprising that a small diesel car can get 58 mpg. What I do find surprising is the price of diesel, and this government’s war on diesel.


42 posted on 08/29/2012 11:35:15 AM PDT by pallis
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To: Paladin2
This graphic may help everyone understand why diesels no longer get the excellent fuel mileage they used to. The drastic reduction in Nox has caused mfgrs to drastically reduce compression ratios, add massive amounts of exhaust gas recirculation, and increase air/fuel ratios at part throttle.


43 posted on 08/29/2012 11:37:25 AM PDT by nascarnation (Defeat Baraq 2012. Deport Baraq 2013)
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To: .454Puma

no mention of price


44 posted on 08/29/2012 12:00:38 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: cunning_fish

We have the BMW 335D.
Drive nice on the highway, and it really does get 50 MPG.

It is the same in-line 6 as in the X5D and 7-series, but
in a much smaller car. It is speed limited from the
factory, but if you get the no-limit chip, the car really
does go 180 mph.

Yes, 50 mpg and 180 mph. Mine rarely gets past 165 mph
during my 5 mile commute.

A few weeks back I drove across Germany, Luxumborg, Belgium and the Netherlands in a Seat Leon 6-speed 4 cyl turbo diesel. Lots of time at 120 mph. Mileage was like
40 mpg in mixed driving.

The 4-cylinder turbo diesel BMW 5-series crushes the
Prius in real-world fuel economy.


45 posted on 08/29/2012 12:08:12 PM PDT by command_liner
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To: cunning_fish

In 1997 I drove a BMW 525TD for a few days. This was a diesel 500-series station wagon, on lease to my company’s European regional sales office.

Ran fine; you’d have a hard time distinguishing it from its petrol-engined counterpart. When starting, you’re supposed to wait for a glow-plug preheat cycle, which I regularly forgot to do, but it always fired up without a problem. (This was in the late summer, so I guess it didn’t really need the preheat.)


46 posted on 08/29/2012 12:14:49 PM PDT by Erasmus (Zwischen des Teufels und des tiefen, blauen Meers)
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To: rxtn41
things can be replaced people can’t....

Sadly in their world, people are the cheapest thing to replace, as long as you consider them property of the state, and they do.

47 posted on 08/29/2012 12:41:28 PM PDT by itsahoot (Write in Palin in 2012, Just to pi$$ off the Romney botts.)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Not having an emergency doesn’t mean it’s readily available. Just checked things out on my drive to and from the gym, 3 stations, one 16 pump, two 8. 16 pump station didn’t have diesel on the price sign but had the typical (for this area) 2 pumps of diesel, first 8 pump had it on the sign (but not in a different color) and the usual 2 pumps, second 8 pump didn’t have it. So that’s 32 pumps of gas and 4 pumps of diesel, that’s the difference between ready availability and limited availability. And yeah sure, you can always plan ahead, but because it’s of limited availability you need to plan better.


48 posted on 08/29/2012 12:52:28 PM PDT by discostu (Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends.)
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To: discostu

“Yeah. All the old problems of diesel are pretty much gone, except the ability to pull in front of any random pump at any random gas station.”

When you consider that you have an extra 200 to 400 miles to look on a tank of gas, searching for diesel gets more manageable.

...and, in any case, with the rise of diesel pickups, there’s not any problem finding the fuel any more. Not true for CNG (Compressed Natural Gas), though.

http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2011/05/new-volkswagen-passat-tdi-with-800-mile-range-introduced/


49 posted on 08/29/2012 5:33:56 PM PDT by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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To: discostu

“And yeah sure, you can always plan ahead, but because it’s of limited availability you need to plan better.”

I think that you’ll find most diesel owners do not plan ahead, they simply start looking a bit earlier if in an unfamiliar area, roughly about the same time a gasoline engine owner would have to look (due to his lower range). On long trips that’s not even necessary, since virtually every gas station on a major highway (and most minor ones) sells diesel. It’s just cases such as hanging out in the San Francisco area that would make owners a bit more cautious.


50 posted on 08/29/2012 5:46:10 PM PDT by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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