Skip to comments.So, About That Debate Thing Tonight...
Posted on 10/22/2012 10:41:15 PM PDT by My Favorite Headache
So, the debates are FINALLY over and done. The media is calling it a 3 to 1 win for Obama/Biden although in all reality it is the other way around or a tie with the loss going to Mitt Romney tonight.
Judging from friends and a large number of politico's I associate with...most had turned the debate off after the first 30 minutes or were watching the NLCS Game 7 on Fox.
Enough is enough.
My most hardcore of Conservative friends and relatives saw Romney for what he truly is deep down inside...a moderate Republican who is a gentleman, good husband, good father, good grandfather, and good businessman.
Tonight after the first softball was tossed Romney's way by the moderator, Romney opted to settle for a quick bunt to move a runner over to steal 3rd base in the bottom of the 9th inning in a tie game instead of swinging for the fences.
This was perfectly set up like Albert Pujols staring down a rookie pitcher who has thrown 120 pitches and is trying for a complete game.
Instead Mitt Romney came in to the debate and played like A-Rod. Stared at easy pitches, took strikes, and at the end of the game felt good about himself because his team was at least in the World Series and why try hard now since he has Team Tea Party, Team Coal, Team Wall Street, and Team Sick of Obama playing their hearts out.
Yes, Obama showed us what a weak lying sack of crap he is, but Conservatives already knew that. The fact checking won't mean squat when you see the headlines, post-debate polls, and missed opportunities that Romney and his entire campaign team have whiffed on day in and day out.
"This was all executed to be exactly this way by Romney himself."
These horrific words were uttered by Rob Portman. Really? You call waiting the clock out and letting Obama get punch after punch in while you land the occasional punch to the gut and upper cut when the other guy is re-adjusting his hands a winning formula?
The bottom line is Mitt Romney looked presidential and that counts for style points.
The reason Romney is even in this thing right now is based off of his Game 1 performance when he was on fire and throwing bombs at Obama all night long. THAT is the Mitt Romney that SHOULD have shown up tonight.
I have heard and read countless Conservatives gloat tonight that Romney was great by getting Obama on the record as a liar and will be fact checked etc...WHO CARES?
The guy has been getting fact checked by Conservatives for years and nothing happens. Zero happens to a zero.
Do I think Romney lost the election tonight? No. Do I think the momentum has been stopped as of tonight? Yes. Do I think he helped his case? No. He is losing every post-debate poll...you know..the polls that everyone was gloating about after Game 1? Look at the Drudge Report? Remember Game 1? He had about 12 links up of polls and people calling Obama out.
Don't fool yourselves with the "Romney did what he had to do" crap because he didn't. His job was to go sit at that table for 90 minutes and call Obama out on every single lie about Libya and every association with the Muslim Brotherhood and tie radical links back to his White House.
Instead we got treated to more talk about things already discussed in previous debates.
Blown opportunity. He could have put him away tonight. Now we have to wait this freaking mess out because Captain Indecision couldn't make up his mind to be a friend or fight.
You let a Chicago street punk jive talk you into a corner and make you look OLD.
Unfortunately for us...most Americans today only care about style and very little about the substance and tonight Obama of 2008 came back to that table with fire in his belly and arrogance in his throat and told Mitt Romney where to shove it...that this was HIS job...get out of the way.
So now we are left with the Super PAC's, Tea Party, and Grassroots Conservatives to clean up this mess and cross our fingers that "The Donald" wasn't bluffing and has something explosive to knock Obama down for a week or so because tonight needs to be washed out of the 40 million or so memories that watched this wasted opportunity tonight.
Good grief....this is why Newt Gingrich would have been an epic choice to run against this thug. He wouldn't have stood a chance on any single night.
Thanks GOP Elite. We get to wait out another nail biter election due to "YOUR" candidate.
What you said.
Sure wish we’d have had Newt instead of Squishy. Bleh.
Well, at least we still have Trump’s big “surprise” on Wednesday!!
Newt said it over and over and over and over again in every speech and in every debate....”At the end of the day who do you want debating Barack Obama in the debates? I will be relentless with his record and his words and make sure he loses this election at all costs.”
I think you are letting your biases impact your opinion. Even the worst poll, PPP, showed Obama lost independents and Romney gained independents in this debate. I would love to see Romney in aggressive mode, but he didn’t need to be. You saw tonight who was winning and who was losing. A desperate sitting president making wild accusations, one after another. He looked desperate, and the followup on his slams of the Navy and his other whoppers will be just as damaging as those after the 2nd debate.
Well think about this, if Newt couldn’t beat Mitt in the primaries, what makes you think he would beat Obama?
Four hours ago I was saying to friends and family that I really wish Donald Trump would sit it out and let this thing run its course because I was convinced that there was no way Romney wasn’t going after Obama tonight on his chaotic foreign policy and especially Libya.
Right now? I am actually waiting on another Trump PR stunt to erase this entire joke of a night. Horses and bayonets.
Newt stood no chance in the primaries because the GOP-e decided they wanted Romney after giving 2008 to McCain. It’s all about whose turn next it is. Newt was cut off of all funding and couldn’t mount a good campaign at all due to endless smears from Mitt during the primary season in Florida and some other states where the mailers were just disgusting.
Newt ain’t perfect. Nobody is. But he sure as hell would have schooled the hell out of the school boy from Kenya...that’s for damn sure.
ilgipper nailed it. Tonight was not about us or the disgust we have with Obama. Tonight was a final chance to reassure splinter-crotched wafflers that Romney is a safe choice. Based on our emotion Romney was wrong. Based on pure logic he was correct.
The trend line will remain with Romney. The rest of us made up our mind long ago.... tonight was about the undecided voters.
If Newt, Lincoln-Douglas would have become
The elite couldn’t con me, I voted for NEWT!
Again, I don’t think Romney lost the election tonight but what he did lose was momentum. All he needed was a first round knock out and he didn’t deliver it to the utter SHOCK of every cable news reporter who by the way are just as shocked that Obama didn’t use the 47% line again.
Same here ;)
Undecided voters = uninformed lazy voters. Therefore, they don't know when 'the boy' was lying.
It didn’t take me long to figure out the Romney strategy tonight. Don’t get overly aggressive. Show that you’re competent and avoid the bitterness that marred the second debate.
Conservatives love to see this charlatan in the White House beaten down like the fraud he is. Independents and the squishy middle undecideds? They want solutions. they want to feel comforted that the guy they are about to vote into the White House can answer the 3 a.m. call in addition to fixing the economy.
Romney did just that.
You wrote a well-thought out piece, however, I totally disagree with you on some major points. Mitt did let a few things go by, however, he didn’t take the bait being dangled before his eyes. That’s what the left wanted - to drag him down into the weeds and gutters with them. He didn’t play their game.
He also doesn’t have inside information to all that is happening within the WH, so in that regard - he did remarkably well. I do think Mitt let Benghazi slide, but there must have been reasons for it. I think he wanted to show a distinct difference between him and Obama in the area of class. Mitt showed class and respect to a sitting POS, er, I mean president. If he had gotten down in the mud with Obama - he would have looked silly. Zero stayed in the mud and showed himself to be the petulant, snotty, arrogant radical that he is.
If people think this is how you win a debate, then I gesture that many aren’t aware of what does and doesn’t make a good debate.
Thy Will Not Mine Be Done.
Obama is finished and Romney was magnanimous.
If that isn’t the case then God himself has chosen against us
Just several weeks ago, in late September, many Freepers questioned his campaign's decision to withold the money until when the time was right. Polls showed he was losing and some conservatives who never wanted him to be the nominee started mental masturbation by saying, "I told you so! If only X was the nominee..."
Today, not only does he have upper hand on ad money, he also leads polls on national and battle ground states, including those that have been in Dhims' hands for several cycles.
And Obama might be re-elected and it is all thanks to the GOP elite. Or, maybe that was your plan all along?
Romney played to the undecideds that liked him in the first debate but dont want a war monger. Romney played it that way. Few would have been swayed by beating up Obama on attack. They are already in his camp. Is anyone that was going to vote for him before the debate going to change their vote because of it afterwards?
I just finished watching it and I am not even sure we were watching the same thing. I saw Mitt being tactical and careful. Maybe a bit more so than I would have liked, but debates are funny things and he has built up an enormous amount of goodwill that he could have quickly and fatally squandered if he had gaffed.
On the other hand I saw Obama as nervous, sullen, and snarky. Those on other boards who are gleefully recounting all the “points” he scored against Romney are ignoring the fact that Biden scored a lot of “points” too, and came away the worse for it as the voters, especially the independents, were left cold.
We can argue all day long about whether Mitt is far enough ahead to be playing a “prevent defense”, but I think he did fine. He looked much more mature, in control, and confident than Obama did, and that is going to count for a lot.
Oh well, we’ll find out soon enough. I’m just glad the debates are over. And I hope and pray this is the LAST time we get sucked into playing by the “Debate Commission” rules.
While Newt may have schooled the boy-in-chief in a debate - there isn’t any way this side of Mars that he would have beat Obama in a general election. Women didn’t like him, and Romney is doing very well with the women vote this time around.
Sorry, I just see things differently than those who wanted a knock, down, rock-em-sock-em robot type of debate. Mitt got in some very good points against Obama. What a shame that so many of you missed those.
He also had to distinguish himself from Bush. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are very much still in the news, and people remember. So, in that regard, Mitt did well to keep a low profile on some of the issues.
I guess we'll know in about 3 days when the polls start showing things. If Obama picks up points or Mitt does.
2 weeks left for the important poll.
This 3rd and final debate was Romney’s last chance to sway the “undecided”’s. So instead of being a firebrand and blasting the Liar in Chief and coming across to squishy “undecided”’s as a “meanie”, Romney chose to come across as a responsible, well-mannered adult...giving the yet undecided’s a good feeling that Romney would be the “moderate”’s choice.
After all, anyone who still had not decided after the first two debates is no partisan, but rather are people who decide at the last minute based on feelings. Romney came across as a “nice man” and the LiarInChief came across as rude and mean.
I agree with you
Oh, get real. Obama isn’t going to resign in disgrace - not with 2 weeks to go until the election.
Sure, we wanted Romney to get into the weeds and gutter with Obama, but he chose the high road, and as stated - he was going after the independent voters tonight. The bases at this point are already squared away
Mitt was smart though to bring things back to the economy. Without a strong, vibrant economy, we aren’t much good to the rest of the world.
I can’t say I agree with you here. Picking a fight with Obama in this debate was the wrong way to go about it. This election is purely about the economy. Romney teaed that up, attacked Obama on it, and kept Obama from hitting him with negatives the rest of the debate.
Obama looked increasingly irritable through the debate; he looked sour. Romney looked calm and confident. He also nailed Obama where it counted, calling him out on the apology tour and not getting mired in the details.
At this point, I can’t say savaging the incumbent on issues most Americans—and particularly undecideds at this point—care little about and know little about. You win points by looking presidential, reassuring, competent, and steady-handed. Romney looked all of the above more than Bush I or Bush II, more than Dole, and more than McCain.
Who should be able to win a debate with the sitting Commander-in-Chief other than the head of the CIA?
I think Romeny ended up looking far more level-headed on this one than Obama, and he certainly won on economic issues, which is all that really matters at this point.
Romney won this one. It wasn’t even close where it counted.
As Rush Limbaugh stated a million times over...Moderates don’t win elections...Conservatives do when they act like Conservatives.
As for people on this thread talking about tonight being for the undecideds and independents who want someone who is calm and cool and mature....those are the same people who voted for Obama in 2008 that you all speak of.
Just remember that. They didn’t break for McCain...they broke for the poster boy.
I would have liked to see Romney get in a few more shots tonight, but those come with risks. Romney appears very confident right now... I think their internal polling is probably far more favorable than the national polls we chew on every day.
Romney came across as a safe choice tonight. He was also able to drag the economy back into the debate and ended on an optimistic note. Conservatives who closely follow the daily news were probably screaming at the television a few times (I was), but Romney was disciplined and knows the important target audience approaching Nov 6th.
Conventional wisdom says it is about the undecided voters and women. I think Romney probably did pretty well with them tonight. The rest of the country has made up their minds. I believe the Romney camp will count tonight as a win. I hope they are correct.
Undecideds break 2-to-1to the challenger in incumbent-challenger races. Obama is nowhere near 50% in the polls two weeks before Election Day.
Obama’s the one in trouble. He is the one making arguments tailored for his base. Romney’s going after the middle and mentioning Pennsylvania and Wisconsin (gravy states) in the debate examples today. Do the math on why that is. Zero is in trouble.
More importantly, he cross-footed Obama’s debate prep - Obama was already for a Benghazi attack from Mitt, which failed to arrive. Then, half-way through, Mitt pivoted to the crucial role economic strength plays in foreign policy, and just built on that to the end.
While I would have preferred more bomb-throwing, too, I think Mitt’s approapproach was smarter...
Romney did the right thing tonight. The media were dying to portray him as a Bush Cowboy”. I’ve heard Obama the last few weeks say..”if mitt romney wants to start another war..he should just say so”. Well, he never got to say that tonight. If Romney came off too “hot” and blustering, the media would have went after him. Women voters would have fled..it was a trap, but Romney didnt fall for it. As for Lybia, Obama got the c.i.a. etc to cover for him and Susan Rice..so again, Mitt was smart to stay away...Tonight, i really think he closed the deal.
and besides, youll find that most people watched football or game 7 of the NLCS....
Undecided voters = uninformed lazy voters. Therefore, they don’t know when ‘the boy’ was lying.
They are emotional voters and go with their feelings. They may not know Obama was lying, but they do know that he looked angry and Romney looked polished and collected. Romney won the appearance battle tonight and geared his message towards the last bunch of undecideds left on the board and they were already leaning towards Romney. I don’t think Obama changed their minds tonight.
Polls show 2-3% undecided. Of that, maybe 1% watched the debate. Of that, maybe 0.5% were swayed to zero. MAYBE. I would estiamte 0.5% to be the absolute max.
zero need a bigger turnaround than that to save his sorry ass.
Hmm? There's always more than one way of looking at anything.
Personally, I don't think Mitt lost any points tonight with the voters who really matter. Had this debate happened tomorrow night, when there are no major league games scheduled, a lot more men would have watched, and the polling results would have come out quite differently.
Nothing that happened tonight is going to change anyone's mind, who's previously made their choice. Perhaps it mattered to that small percentage of voters who are still undecided at this late date. Dunno, but I do know that Mitt's real lead at this point in the race is commanding and insurmountable. It would take an absolute miracle for Obama to win it now.
I hope your post stays on here.
The very last thing you want to do when you are ahead and running away is to do something stupid in your last debate.
Romney played it coy, and came off looking presidential. I do not care one bit if Obastard might have won on points made. Romney won on style. Obastard looked and sounded nasty, arrogant, and snippy.
This did not play well with anyone other than his demented base.
I do not give it to Romney because of his coy play, but give it to him on his demeanor. There is two weeks to go, and a lot can happen yet.
To stop Islamic terrorists, I want a “meanie”, not a pussy which is the way Romney was tonight. He said nothing to show he could be a strong Commander in Chief. I’ll take Donald Rumsfield or Dick Cheney any day. Romney can sit in the corner and drink wine while the real men take care of business.
They don't know enough to listen to the rather complex set of facts and lies about Benghazi or Fast & Furious. Way too easy for Obama to lie his way out of it because these people would have no assumed set of facts against which to compare what he said, or from which to draw contradictions - so it would have been a playground name calling contest - "did too" "did not" "did too."
We saw it last debate. At the moment Romney had Obama on Benghazi, Candy jumps in, turns the issue into a loss for Romney (as far as low info voters know) ... even SNL only quoted Candy's 'it's right here in the transcript' without the 'but you're right Mr. Romney they then lied for 2 weeks.'
The election is over, Romney was speaking to people who weren't even watching the debate - he's speaking to a small percentage who don't know anything, but will vote, and maybe, half by mistake, will read a headline written by a pundit, which will not read "Romney Trapped In Lie."
Meanwhile he actively convinced women again that he's not HItler. Remember - Ohio has been drinking Romney's-Evil Kool Aid Kommercials for 6 months at high doses. An on-stage shouting contest of issues their undecideds know nothing about would not have played well at the booth.
Obama learned in debate two that he could counter Romney by childishly saying into the microphone 'not true Governor' every 7 seconds. And the moderators and media proved they would pitch in if Obama would do his part.
Smart play by Romney Campaign. If the election were tied - that would be a different story, but it's not tied. Tonight's debate is proof RR internals show them comfortably ahead of 270 EVs - or Romney would have gone for some points. He didn't even try. He just looked relaxed and presidential to solidify the switch many have made recently.
Right or wrong, he didn't miss any opportunities, he consciously stepped over them. One, because he had nothing to gain in terms of actual votes, two, because he's in foreign, hostile, enemy territory during these debates - the crowds, the moderators, the media - and the enemy has had a month to figure out how to counter Mitt's style of presenting the truth - how to force him into a single little semantics mistake that would have captured headlines.
Contrary to popular belief, there IS a time for a prevent defense. If you're a soccer team, up 3 to 1 with 5 minutes left, and 3 or your players have been red carded and hence kicked out of the game - that's what you do, and you're dumb if you don't.
Mitt's outnumbered by the audience (who has twice proven they will laugh and clap after agreeing not to,) moderators, and media. In other words, the other team has a 3 man advantage with 5 minutes go, and has had a month to plot the final 5 minutes.
Not a time to send your forwards and half backs up the field.
In a tied match with even sides, a prevent defense is usually fatal. I don't think RR went into this thing thinking it was anywhere near tied, and they definitely went in outnumbered, against a well prepared enemy, 2 goals ahead. Mitt only had to show he knew what he was talking about.
In the meantime - he did touch on the real problem in the Middle East - no long term planning, and no respect for or fear of the US - no projection.
I too would have liked to see him tear apart Obama's lying, but it wasn't necessary, and it was high risk - a calculated RR decision.
This debate is entirely about optics and again tonight the pResident yet again drove down the one single area where he has had an advantage, and that is on the subject of likability. He was even more unlikable tonight than he was in debate #2, and dumbass rejoinders about horses and bayonets only helped his cause with the same idjits who believe that Biden "won" with his Superior Clown routine.
No, he didn't.
0bama's team tried to create a picture of Romney as an aloof rich boy who doesn't care about other people. That image -- which cost them $200 million to create has been destroyed. All that they had left was an attempt in the closing days to portray Romney as Bush III. Tonight, Romney gave them no chance to even start that portrait. Romney did fine. He looked good, he wasn't a kook or a warmonger, he made himself look more "presidential" than the sitting pResident, and he made 0bama look petulant and snarky.
Low information/Poor Attention Span voters want a new President. But they also fear change. Romney showed them tonight that he is going to focus on Jobs, Jobs, and more Jobs -- that was the point of continually returning the debate to the point that America can't be a superpower if we aren't an economic superpower -- and he isn't going to get America into another war. They have nothing to fear. Now they can vote for change. That was the strategy, and with the remaining voters who can possibly be moved it will work.
tonight was about the undecided voters.
Undecided voters = uninformed lazy voters. Therefore, they don’t know when ‘the boy’ was lying.
If you are old enough to have followed Mitt's '94 senate race, you have seen this progression before. Romney comes out of the chute on fire, and voters see a genuine conservative choice. Romney actually led Kennedy early in the race. As the campaign rolled along, Romney ran like a scared bunny rabbit from the (completely unsurprising) Boston liberal media onslaught until, by the end, Romney essentially declared himself more liberal than Teddy.
Mittens, of course, lost in a landslide. And there he was again tonight talking about how he will "reach across the aisle".
My thought was, "Here we go again."
I am with you. I wonder exactly how many watched this debate tonight. With two games on, who the hell cared other than the hard core?
Peoples minds are made up, and, there are not enough undecided people to change the game-no pun intended.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.