Posted on 11/29/2012 2:59:09 PM PST by DontTreadFred
Do you like the 401(k) systems? Ray Fisman says that the Fed should end the 401(k) because it is not helping people to save more money - http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/2012/11/fiscal_cliff_401_k_s_and_iras_cost_the_government_billions_should_we_get.single.html. While I couldn’t disagree more with the reason Fisman wants to end the 401(k) system, I do think it isn’t helping average Americans. I think people would build up better savings by allowing pretax dollars to be used to pay down mortgage debt?
“I’ve got nearly a million bucks that says you’re full of it, Ray.”
A million bucks, ehh. You and other 1 percenters (not that you are, but that’s what they think) could do a LOT OF GOOD in helping to reduce the debt burden for future generations. So we’ve got this deal. Take it or take it...
That’s how it will go.
I agree. If the government takes the IRA and 401K’s, it will be the greatest bait and switch in the country’s history. Obamacare has this country on the edge right now. Retirement account confiscation would be the triggering point that might trigger a revolt.
Defined benefit plans were always unsustainable. Defined contribution plans make much more sense. 401k’s are a good idea but I think it makes sense to hedge your bets and split your savings between a tax advantaged 401k/IRA and regular savings and investment vehicles. If the government doesn’t start outright confiscating 401k’s then they’ll be using them for means testing to limit social security. Either way, the planners and savers lose.
The reason they're going after the 401K's is because it's just not fair that the privileged can work and save while the, um, underprivileged cannot. It's all in fairness...leveling the playing field, redistributing your wealth.
Shame on you for taking advantage of a program that, while allowing you to save for your retirement, kept the government from their fair share of your income.
Hey Catfish,
There’ll never be a revolt as long as television is full of sports, sports, and more sports.
I'm giving up on fancy TV's, cars, and vacations now by putting my disposable income into a 401(k) account for later. Others are blowing their money on short-term trinkets and then complaining that they don't have savings for retirement.
The 99% want theirs now, and then they want mine later.
This is all really just a modern-day replay of Aesop's fable of the Ant and the Grasshopper.
-PJ
Deferred taxes are bad? how is that?
Not that bad. Do the math. $9,000 reduced by 10% penalty leaves you $8,100. Withheld tax at 20% marginal tax rate leaves you with $6,500.
The 10% penalty is to enforce the discipline of saving for retirement. This isn't supposed to be a rainy-day fund.
Careful. The government would prefer you pull it during your income years.
Rush talked about this today.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/11/29/details_the_plan_to_steal_your_401_k
I don’t think a government pension is taxed when you earn it...maybe we should go after that first. And no, we are not going to increase the government worker pay when we tax their pension contributions. I call it ‘giving back’.
Might? We'd better hope like hell it would.
Mr. Fred - Your assertion regarding 401(k)’s is woefully lacking in hard data.
Just sayin’ . . .
Again, I ask "What if my 401(k) is in corporate stocks?" Would this plan force me to sell all my corporate stock in order for the cash amount to be turned over to the government for purchase of government bonds?
What would that do to the private sector? What would that do to all the corporations whose stocks are suddenly seized from retirement accounts by the government and sold off for cash?
-PJ
I have no income years, its all out go years now............................................plus the government demands I take out X amount of money every year so that the day I die, there will be no money left...I have to take out more than I really need, poo on all politicans. we are servants not citizens when we have to do as our masters demand....just hope I don’t die in the hole...oh wait, there is welfare, :O) they didn’t think of that...
Most women suck at math, it is why so many vote for demonrats and do not care (or even understand) the national debt disaster. Plus, end up tens of thousands in credit card debt with no idea how it happened.
Well, I’m in. Down here in Georgia, we’ve always believed that people had the right to rebel against tyranny.
Roll it over into a self-directed IRA.
I think that maybe I did not explain my beliefs well enough. I am in favor of keeping the 401(k): anything that helps me lower my taxes and saves me money is okay for me. However, I think that the average American would be better off being able to pay off his mortgage with pre-tax dollars. There would have to be a limit on the amount of money people could pay because we wouldn’t want to encourage people to buy bigger and bigger houses. But, if people owned their homes, they would be much better off.
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