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Republicans Should Give Obama and the Democrats Everything They Want
Examiner.com ^ | 11/30/2012 | Rob Binsrick

Posted on 12/01/2012 7:04:44 AM PST by Desperado67

Congressional Republicans seem to be tying themselves up in knots in their negotiations with Barack Obama and the Congressional Democrats regarding ways to avoid the so-called ‘fiscal cliff.’ The fiscal cliff is of course the dramatic drop in economic and job growth that is supposedly going to occur if the country faces a combination of tax rate increases and government spending cuts. Whether anyone believes the fiscal cliff will actually occur is a moot point. What the Republicans should do at this point is give Obama and the Democrats everything they want in any fiscal cliff deal.

That is right – the Republicans should simply lie down and surrender the fight. Why? The reason is very simple - it is a fight that they cannot win.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; Miscellaneous; Politics
KEYWORDS: fiscalcliff; obama; republicans; taxes
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1 posted on 12/01/2012 7:04:48 AM PST by Desperado67
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To: Desperado67

Might as well, the pubbies will be blamed for everything bad anyway!


2 posted on 12/01/2012 7:06:18 AM PST by DBrow
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To: Desperado67

At this point, you take sequester or continued out of control spending. How does one convince the takers that the party is over??

Canada had a “charasmatic” communistic leader named Trudeau who drove debt to unliveable levels. Canada, to a large extent is still cleaning up Trudeau’s mess


3 posted on 12/01/2012 7:12:50 AM PST by Steven Tyler
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To: Desperado67
In the most recent Mark Steyn column, Steyn points out that the United States is a European welfare state and has been for years. We spend more on largess to the citizenry then even France. USA spends $18,000 per citizen in handouts to France's $16,000. The United States also has the most progressive tax system in the world. The difference between us and Europe is that the citizenry in Europe is expected to pay for it, while the citizenry in the the US, the 47%, doesn't pay for it. Norway's government spends 42% of its GDP on government, while collecting 41% of GDP in revenues. The United States spends 41% of GDP on government, but collects only 27% in revenue. The high earners in both countries pay roughly the same in taxes. You see our problem. As Rush used to joke, the poor are not paying their fair share, and it is true.
4 posted on 12/01/2012 7:25:12 AM PST by gusty
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To: Desperado67
Not everything, but I'd release the tax rates on the $250K+ crowd to Pre-Bush levels.

We all know here that will run the government for 8 days. Let Obama figure the rest out himself.

5 posted on 12/01/2012 7:26:28 AM PST by Last Dakotan
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To: Steven Tyler

We should just go for it. Don’t fear the Reaper, and go over the cliff. It is the only way to stop spending.


6 posted on 12/01/2012 7:29:13 AM PST by gusty
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To: Desperado67

Then the GOP losses
the house in 2014 and San Fran Nan in charge again !

Brilliant strategy .
Lets play losers to win !


7 posted on 12/01/2012 7:30:04 AM PST by ncalburt (Axelrod Psych OPS has gone to 24/7 non stop - "The election is over " status until Nov)
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To: ncalburt

Then the GOP losses
the house in 2014 and San Fran Nan in charge again !


I hate to admit the obvious but pelosi demonstrates a great deal more leadership than does boehner.

If boehner had any testosterone, he would salute smartly and walk away. Give it to that idiot pelosi, at this point it just doesn’t matter anymore..


8 posted on 12/01/2012 7:39:53 AM PST by AFret. ("Charlie don't surf ! ")
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To: DBrow

Totally disagree. The Republicans should fight loudly and relentlessly as long as possible. If they give in, not enough press given to what’s going on and the Dems will just lie later about how it happened.

Though I do wish the Republicans would learn to talk to the American people. They use the same tired phrases over and over. Instead try something new like “We’re just the little boy with our finger in the dam holding back that wall of water. Only in this story no one’s coming to fix it. The debt & spending like the ocean pushing the dam wall will soon break through and wash us all away.”

OK, maybe that wasn’t the best analogy but something to catch the people’s ear and make them understand what’s coming. And that it’s Obama and the Dems who will let the disaster play out.


9 posted on 12/01/2012 7:44:21 AM PST by Kenny (<p)
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To: AFret.

The Dems next target is your 401k plans .
They can never be put in charge again !
Lets stop being ridiculous with this crazy talk .


10 posted on 12/01/2012 7:44:40 AM PST by ncalburt (Axelrod Psych OPS has gone to 24/7 non stop - "The election is over " status until Nov)
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To: Desperado67

GOP should have public negotiations.


11 posted on 12/01/2012 7:47:07 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: Desperado67

I’ve been thinking this way for the last few days. Go over the cliff, bring on the depression, let the country go bankrupt. It’s going to happen one day anyway. Might as well be now instead of later.


12 posted on 12/01/2012 7:47:07 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: Kenny

The issue is bonehead is negotiating for the lobbyists his only base !
He is there bag man !
Boner hates us and only concerned about keeping our tax dollars flowing to his buddies and former staffers now running these lobbyists firms .
Bonehead packed all these lobbyist firms with his people and that is how he keeps control in the GOP !


13 posted on 12/01/2012 7:48:40 AM PST by ncalburt (Axelrod Psych OPS has gone to 24/7 non stop - "The election is over " status until Nov)
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To: Desperado67

Tax increases and sequestration are both democratic party ideas, and the GOP will take the fall. Again. Yay MSM!


14 posted on 12/01/2012 7:49:54 AM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: AFret.; All

“at this point it just doesn’t matter anymore.”

It matters to my kids.

You quitters make me sick.


15 posted on 12/01/2012 7:52:54 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Desperado67

I don’t think I’m quite ready for that yet ... but I suppose it has some merit. Esp, as one of you said, why not, the GOP is going to get blamed for everything anyway.


16 posted on 12/01/2012 7:53:40 AM PST by RIghtwardHo
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To: driftdiver

Exactly !
Peddlers of dismay and give in !


17 posted on 12/01/2012 7:56:33 AM PST by ncalburt (Axelrod Psych OPS has gone to 24/7 non stop - "The election is over " status until Nov)
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To: Paladin2

That would have been smart .
Sadly bonehead is fighting for his lobbyist money and not us so he wants to hide that fact !


18 posted on 12/01/2012 7:58:22 AM PST by ncalburt (Axelrod Psych OPS has gone to 24/7 non stop - "The election is over " status until Nov)
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To: DBrow; Desperado67

I totally agree. Eventually it will come down to war in the streets. Liberals hate guns. Conservatives love guns. Victory is assured.


19 posted on 12/01/2012 8:05:03 AM PST by killermosquito (Buffalo, Detroit (and eventually France) is what you get when liberalism runs its course.)
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To: driftdiver

“at this point it just doesn’t matter anymore.”

It matters to my kids.

You quitters make me sick.


I’m not a quitter..but I am realistic. If you think we are coming back from this to any semblance of what was once our country, you must know something the rest of us are missing.


20 posted on 12/01/2012 8:08:06 AM PST by AFret. ("Charlie don't surf ! ")
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To: AFret.

Some people will fight to their last breath. Others will get down on their knees to welcome their oppressors.

Time to decide what kind of person you are.


21 posted on 12/01/2012 8:10:54 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Steven Tyler
At this point, you take sequester or continued out of control spending. How does one convince the takers that the party is over??

Canada had a “charasmatic” communistic leader named Trudeau who drove debt to unliveable levels. Canada, to a large extent is still cleaning up Trudeau’s mess

We all know this, but we're stuck with the same Trudeau-ist president because there's now seems that "takers" outnumber the "producers" and this past election made that point, much to my dismay. The "takers" will be the ones who suffer the most from Obama and the Dems Keynesian economic policies. It's not that I want to see people suffer though, but people do need to be shaken awake from the stupor induced by drinking Obama's koolaid and that will hopefully come with the inevitable crash and burn as a result of Obama and the Dems policies.

22 posted on 12/01/2012 8:11:44 AM PST by rochester_veteran ( http://RochesterConservative.com/forums)
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To: Desperado67

Sorry, it goes against my nature for myself, my party, or my nation to just roll over and take it so that later we can say “Told you so!” or “But is WASN’T my fault!”.

We have to fight these bastards, every frikkin’ step of the way.


23 posted on 12/01/2012 8:12:09 AM PST by theDentist (FUBO; qwerty ergo typo : i type, therefore i misspelll)
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To: driftdiver

“at this point it just doesn’t matter anymore.”

It matters to my kids.

You quitters make me sick.


I’m not a quitter..but I am realistic. If you think we are coming back from this to any semblance of what was once our country, you must know something the rest of us are missing.


24 posted on 12/01/2012 8:12:32 AM PST by AFret. ("Charlie don't surf ! ")
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To: Desperado67

The country has yet to digest the effects of Obamacare. Most of the changes are just starting to take effect or will in 2014.

To give in completely on the fiscal cliff is crazy talk.

If taxes go up, and should if we keep spending like this. Then they should go up on Everyone. Everyone should feel the effects of this crazy spending.


25 posted on 12/01/2012 8:14:25 AM PST by desertfreedom765
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To: Desperado67
The wreck is going to be epic, when liberal magical thinking meets cruel reality.


26 posted on 12/01/2012 8:17:51 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Desperado67
Yep.

No matter what happens 2013 will suck. If the GOP puts itself in the position of being painted as the cause of the suckitude then we lose the House in 2014.

Giving obamski a liberal House, Senate and SCOTUS with two years of no re-election concerns he will kill what's left of the country.

Give him the taxes, let the shtf anyway and use his failure to hold the House.

27 posted on 12/01/2012 8:19:20 AM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: gusty
We should just go for it. Don’t fear the Reaper, and go over the cliff. It is the only way to stop spending.

_________________________________________

No, it's the only way to guarantee Dim take-back of the House in 2014....genius!

28 posted on 12/01/2012 8:21:17 AM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Desperado67
Dittoes, absolutely. Let them have what they want, and keep conservative fingerprints far, far away.

The drama of it might also make an important ideological point to the idiots that put these tyrants into office.

29 posted on 12/01/2012 8:28:27 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: theDentist
We have to fight these bastards, every frikkin’ step of the way.

______________________________________________

What good does it do us to fight tactically while they are fighting strategically?

30 posted on 12/01/2012 8:30:52 AM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Paladin2
GOP should have public negotiations.

____________________________________

How? With whom? What media will cover it?

31 posted on 12/01/2012 8:32:49 AM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Desperado67

Judo isn’t giving up. Judo is using your opponents attacks against him. And Judo isn’t just about flipping your opponent and then waiting for him to attack you again. You flip him, and then you put an arm-bar or chokehold on him until he gives up. What is foolish, is to see your opponent coming at you with a baseball bat and hoping your head will break the bat before he kills you.


32 posted on 12/01/2012 8:33:35 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Desperado67

This article assumes that Obama doesn’t know what he’s doing: which is facilitating the total collapse of our free market economic system. If you do not fight this, he more quickly gets his way and establishes a revolutionary, statist takeover of the means of production. This is the ultimate goal of communism. In Obama’s worldview, America is unfair and must be dismantled. The wealth of this country and its citizens is to be redistributed: not just to the poor in the US, but through to the entire world.

The single best tactic right now is for the states to refuse to set up the Obamacare exchanges. That throws a monkey wrench into the primary engine of the socialistic takeover of the economy. Then we get the Senate and the Presidency and repeal Obamacare with a simple majority vote.


33 posted on 12/01/2012 8:34:06 AM PST by SC_Pete
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To: Desperado67
That is right – the Republicans should simply lie down and surrender the fight. Why? The reason is very simple - it is a fight that they cannot win.

Even if the Republicans are tarred with the blame of "going over the cliff" the memory of the voting public is very short.

34 posted on 12/01/2012 8:51:56 AM PST by Mike Darancette (I don't understand why the Boomers are so passive.)
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To: AFret.

You are a quitter.


35 posted on 12/01/2012 8:56:01 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: wtc911
Put all communications on the web.

Do a web cast of discussions with the 'rats.

36 posted on 12/01/2012 8:59:44 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: desertfreedom765

It is hard to have “taxes go up” on people who PAY NO TAXES!!! The takers need skin in the game...


37 posted on 12/01/2012 9:00:51 AM PST by goodnesswins (R.I.P. Doherty, Smith, Stevens, Woods.)
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To: Paladin2
A webcast? Seventeen people would see it.

We have been fully flanked and out manuevered on this. It is lose/lose at this point. Quit the field, regroup and for once, play chess instead of checkers.

38 posted on 12/01/2012 9:03:30 AM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: wtc911

“No, it’s the only way to guarantee Dim take-back of the House in 2014”

Right now, I’m thinking the ‘rats stand a good chance of taking back the House in 2014 no matter what the Pubbies do.

Consider these three scenarios (as results of the current “fiscal cliff” struggle):

Scenario 1: The Republicans do nothing, and allow sequestration to occur:
Result: The ‘rats will blame the higher tax rates and cuts in the military on the Republicans in 2014.

Scenario 2: The Republicans fight to the end, and force entitlement cuts along with “revenue enhancements” (along with higher taxes on the wealthy) in the final plan.
Result: The ‘rats will blame cuts in SS and other entitlements on the Republicans in ‘14, and blame the Pubbies for “raising taxes on the middle class”.

Scenario 3: The Republicans do nothing, a la “John Galt”, and allow the democrats to pass whatever tax plans they wish, eliminate the debt ceiling, etc.
Result: The ‘rats will take full credit for “raising taxes on the rich”, and for “protecting your entitlements”, and blame the Republicans as do-nothings who refuse to help the American people.

What other course of action might there be for the Pubbies to do?
And make no mistake — no one cares about 2016 yet. We have to survive 2014 first.

If the Republicans do NOT “survive” the 2014 election, they might as well be finished as a national party.


39 posted on 12/01/2012 9:14:10 AM PST by Road Glide
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To: Road Glide

Your third scenario misses the mark (you are right with the first two). If the GOP gives him the tax he wants it will do nothing to improve the economy in any way. In fact things will slide further. The GOP could then run on the fact that they comprimised big time and look what happened. It might not work but it is the only chance for 2014.


40 posted on 12/01/2012 9:20:32 AM PST by wtc911 (Amigo - you've been had.)
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To: Desperado67

How about republicans fight for what is right and good for this country. Start there.


41 posted on 12/01/2012 9:27:49 AM PST by Boxsford (God Is.)
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To: wtc911
Now there is a winning strategy, hope that the voters notice how bad the economy is in 2014. That worked real well a few weeks ago. The reality is that the majority of Americans are addicted to their entitlements. No amount of happy talk or myth will change that fact. The problem is that half this country has no skin in the game. Going off the so-called “Fiscal Cliff” will just reinstitute the rates of 2001 and cut spending now, not in the future, which means never. Some of those taking the government cheese will be asked to pony up. Both sides in DC have agreed to raise taxes on the producers, they are only fighting over how. The Dems want higher rates for the rich, the GOP wants to take away deductions from the rich, so no matter how you slice it the producers are going to pay more to the government, while the takers keep on taking. If those who want smaller government are serious, then going of the cliff is the only way to go, the other choices by both sides are just mental masturbation.
42 posted on 12/01/2012 9:40:49 AM PST by gusty
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To: Boxsford

“How about republicans fight for what is right and good for this country. Start there.”

Few Republicans are interested in that.


43 posted on 12/01/2012 9:41:20 AM PST by SaxxonWoods (....Let It Burn....)
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To: Boxsford

“How about republicans fight for what is right and good for this country. Start there.”

Few Republicans are interested in that.


44 posted on 12/01/2012 9:41:20 AM PST by SaxxonWoods (....Let It Burn....)
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To: SaxxonWoods

Go ahead and fight. U may be the only one.


45 posted on 12/01/2012 9:42:53 AM PST by DIRTYSECRET
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To: SaxxonWoods

Why limit it to Republicans. The sad truth is few Americans are interested in that. They are only interested in their entitlements.


46 posted on 12/01/2012 9:44:22 AM PST by gusty
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To: wtc911

Newt says there is no fiscal cliff.
http://www.gingrichproductions.com/2012/11/there-is-no-fiscal-cliff/


47 posted on 12/01/2012 9:45:02 AM PST by WVNan
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To: DBrow

No - they should give him NOTHING he wants.


48 posted on 12/01/2012 9:56:53 AM PST by PGR88
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To: wtc911

“Your third scenario misses the mark (you are right with the first two). If the GOP gives him the tax he wants it will do nothing to improve the economy in any way. In fact things will slide further.”

No, not off the mark.

The reality is that in America today, it doesn’t really matter to a large part of the voting population whether the economy is improving or not.

If it did, how did Obama persuade a majority of Americans to vote for him, in one of the worst economic environments (of his own making) in American history?

If it did, Obama would have lost. He did not lose. He won.

The “new reality” of American politics (in the new “divided America”) is that the successful promulgation of a theme is more important than reality. Because in the new America, we have a growing share of the population that has no idea of what economic “reality” even -is-. And wouldn’t be able to comprehend it in any case.

Perception has become “the new reality”.
Apply this to my scenario #3, and you’ll see how that will work for the ‘rats in 2014. It may even work BETTER for them than scenarios #1 and #2....

Aside: Who cares about unemployment when you’re gettin’ your free ObamaPhone?


49 posted on 12/01/2012 10:05:52 AM PST by Road Glide
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To: goodnesswins

I totally agree.


50 posted on 12/01/2012 10:20:35 AM PST by desertfreedom765
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