Skip to comments.I am old enough to cash out my IRA. Should I do it now for tax purposes?
Posted on 12/05/2012 4:40:34 PM PST by Joe the Pimpernel
I turned 60 this year. I have a conventional and Roth IRA. The Roth obviously is tax free. I intend to work until the day I die, if God grants me the favor. Should I take the tax hit on the conventional IRA this year before the tax hikes kick in and cash it all out, or some of it?
Part of why I want to do this is so that if Ubama decides to nationalize 401(k)s and IRAs, he can't get me. The other is because taxes are going up.
I’d take it out. You know what taxes are now. If you can live with that, do it. Otherwise you’re basically gambling. I don’t see Obama and Co LOWERING taxes, do you?
I think you have two years before you need to worry about Obama nationalizing anything.
If the dems take the House, then all bets are off.
Dual citizenship is pretty attractive right now.
Ping me if you get some reasonable advice, my husband and I are asking the same questions.......really no one seems to know what to do.
I rolled into municipal bonds and so far, the results are good. The bonds are all Missouri cities but not the big metros.
PIMCO’s CEO said 1-2 percent return is going to be the rule for the next few years for stocks and mutual funds.
I think you can find some security in investments like bonds...
I can only tell you what I’ve done and why.
I have had two IRA’s in my career. I didn’t know I had them until I left the company. The IRA’s were tied heavily to the stock of the company and both were going down, hence my being laid off despite being a top performer.
I took the 20% hit and spent it. It was jackpot money as I didn’t invest them or I may have. I wouldn’t have consciously done that as I can do better with my money(My bloated ego)
If I had an IRA and knowing that in two years Obama, Boehner, et all will confiscate my loot and give me a coupon good for donuts and coffee, I’d take it out and take the hit.
Hell, if it’s enough maybe you buy some property, pay something down/off, invest it or put in a puny CD.
If you have a whole lot then you might consider bonds in other countries. They pay joker wild money but you need $100k to buy most of them.
Just be deliberate in your thinking and remind yourself in a few why you made the decision. That way you have no regrets but did your best.
do not give the tax man money. My mother waited until she was older ... her income went down and she had high medical expenses for long-term care.
She cashed out then, and the expenses offset the income ... therefore the tax was $0!
If fact, she did not cash out, she converted her traditional to a ROTH and paid the tax at that 0% rate.
my mother has her grandchildren as beneficiaries on the roth ira, so they will receive the tax-free benefits until they are 80 yrs old ... another 70 years!
keep your IRA’s ... many benefits.
Annuities are a different story.
I’ve been thinking about the same thing.
On the bad side: If you’re in a high bracket, and we go over the cliff, rates will go up about 5%.
On the good side: Even if you delay, the 3.8% Obamacare tax doesn’t apply to IRA distributions and conversions.
Also, you should remember that Roth IRAs may be tax-free, but there are still restrictions. Most of them apply to heirs. For you, the contributor, you have to wait 5 years before you can withdraw any gains without penalty. However, you can withdraw your original contribution if you need to.
I’m of the mind that the government will get increasingly greedy, and retirement plans are an obvious pot ‘o’ gold. So, I’m going to withdraw my IRA over the next few years, before I boost my base level income by taking SS.
YMMV, as they say.
If I was 59.5 at this very moment, I would cash out any IRA or 401K.
I am sitting right at 250K this year and file married jointly and I would take the hit.
Just my opinion. I have always been able to plan 5 years in advance concerning finances until around 2004 all my planning seemed to be for naught. This is probably the most confused I have ever been of what direction to “jump” with my finances.
The frog hairs on the back of my neck have been standing up as of late........could be a sign.....
svcw, see post #7.
another point, this confiscation idea ... the tax law would have to be changed by congress ... and the change would have to initiate in the HOUSE. Ain’t going nowhere.
The DEMS are agitating on this for the future ... when they takeover Congress, both houses like in 2009. When will that happen? 2025?
I would say get out of the dollar before you lose it all.
Do it in increments over the next 3-6 months.
I would say thats about how long we have left before hyper-inflation starts robbing everything from everybody.
Can you think of any scenario where the dollar will strengthen over the next 4 years?
Yeah... get out
A bird in the hand...
Here is what I did, cashed out, paid off debts. Set myself up to grow my own food (plus extra) and produce my own fuel (ethanol for the generators and cars plus extra). Also have the means of preserving the food and protecting the family from those that wish to take from me. Stocked up on canned goods for the family, water purification and extra medical supplies. All of this is to prep for any kind of disaster. Cost was just about $10,000. Also socked away some junk silver and some gold coins.
For that small amount, my family and I are set up to face even the worst of economic disasters and most natural disaster. I consider it “insurance” against society.
So if you can pay off your house, pay of cars, and other debts, get yourself where you “dont owe nobody, nothing”.
2. If it was me and I wanted to get out of stocks I'd looks to other investments you can hold in an IRA real estate and precious metals come to mind.
3. Don't take my advise or anyone else’s you get on a forum, its your money spend a few bucks and get advise from someone who invests for a living..
Same here. Hubby turns 60 soon.
Where could we put the money where it will be safe though and should we invest in gold? What currency will ever be safe in this world’s economy?
Leave your Roth money alone. If you plan to take the funds out of your traditional IRA and take the tax hit (hopefully you’ll be fortunate enough to be able to pay much, or all, of the taxes from sources other than your IRA distribution), have as much as you can rolled over to your Roth. Remember, with certain exceptions, you won’t be able to take the resulting earnings from that roll-over for 5 years but could take out any of the rolled over “principle” at any time without having to take a tax penalty.
Do some more research before you do anything hastily.
I would echo some other comments about not taking advice without detailed thought and planning, but if you want to consider strong foreign currencies, one you might look into is Swiss Francs. The Swiss have been around a very long time and seem better able to defend their country and its economy than many. Of course, you would be exposed to international currency fluctuations and foreign policy decisions.
Cash out now. The rats are already planning to steal our retirements!!!
I’m wondering if you could take money out, after age 60, and avoid any income tax by using it pay off your mortgage or your HELOC....or say, invest in a small business ( like a old pickup with a snow plow)
This is the 2nd post of this nature today.
To me that is scary.
It tells me that there are many out there that have spent more time on sites like FR hashing over political things that other than voting they have no control over when they may want to spend time reading and boneing up on finance,investing,asset allocation and risk tolerance as they can control all of that.
Its not rocket science.
In the other post I recommended the poster go to the sites below and check out a few of the topics and see what others have too say.These are people that eat sleep and live $$$.
I suggest the same to you as I have seen a few foolish and uneducated replies.
Call Lear Capital and let them explain how this will help you (800-576-9355.) They've proven to be the best I've done business with over the years.
They will be doing my IRA shortly, as I'll be retiring within a few weeks. They do it all, and pretty fast too.
With a self administered account you can pay yourself monthly, or not, depending on your needs - and you can keep your 'income' low enough that you won't have to pay taxes on your distributions.
There is a high probability that gold will more than double in value in coming months, so what you have in your account will also double. Yes - it's all tied to the price of gold, but there is not much chance that it will radically fall in value - just the opposite.
Joe - a P.S. to my last. There is NO TAX involved in rolling your current IRA over into a gold IRA. You only pay taxes above a certain amount of distribution to yourself per year. If that value is below taxable rates of income, there is no tax.
You might want to look at a Roth conversion for your traditional IRA if you have a favorable tax rate right now.
"if Ubama decides to nationalize 401(k)s and IRAs, he can't get me."
He can't take away high numismatic value US Gold coins - at least as the law stands right now. Of course, he might try at some point, but he'll face the wrath and outrage of his own party hacks that have their wealth in high numismatic US gold coins. I doubt he'll risk that!
See posts 23, 24 and 26. Best advice I know of.
Ask a Tax professional not anonymous internet folks.
Take it out now. When the kenyan confiscates IRAs and 401Ks etc to replace them with some sort of “enhanced” social security, there will likely be no warning. On Tuesday your IRA is in its proper place. On Wednesday it has been replaced with a guaranteed number of government bonds that cannot be passed to heirs. You will get your new social security payments from the moment you retire until you die which will be a shorter span than you might think what with Obamacare being the inescapable law of the land now. With the cash from the IRA you could possibly fund a medical needs entity to pay for your costs in getting yourself offshore for necessary medical attention.
You might want to check out posts 23, 24, 26 too...
The best currency will always be gold. You can expect to see the one-world currency too in the not so distant future. Our dollars will be worthless, trade-in's will be devastating, but gold translates to more of the new 'cash.' Yeah, that too will go away at some point, with the 'mark' in the hand or the forehead, I suspect. But gold will always be 'money' at whatever paper or electronic representation.
Here is the bottom line...after reading all the comments, you should have come to the conclusion, no one knows what you should do.
There are too many variables and unknowns involved in this decision, for anyone to advise you. You’ve made many decisions over your life time based on the future. Now the future is very dark indeed, I believe darker than anytime in America’s history, and we are just at the beginning of it all.
At this point the best anyone can do IMO is...Trust Your Own Instincts.
Some things to consider:
1. ASSUMING you work full time making at least as much as you are making today, and ASSUMING you are not making over $250,000, then your INCOME tax will not likely increase. That’s as sure as anyone can be at this point in time given the “negotiations”.
2. Can you eliminate debt by cashing in? If so, will you save more in interest than you’ll pay in taxes?
3. Do you foresee any of these events that will let you cash in your IRA without paying taxes on it:
I just took the plunge, with the 10% penalty. It was a pretty healthy IRA too. My problem is that there is NOTHING I would put my money in, short of fixed income, and that pays zero these days.
So yes, THE MAN gets a decent amount of money. Yes, also, he would likely have gotten a bit less when I retire. But I don’t live my life based on how much money THE MAN gets, I live it based on how much money I get and what I’m allowed to do with that money. In this case, I still get a decent amount of bucks and can use it to pay off my house. With the house paid off, I don’t have to itemize my 1040s anymore, and that makes tax time much, much, simpler.
An adviser would have told me that I was insane for doing this. The same adviser would have told me the same 6 years ago when I went fixed income, just before everyone else got to go through the collapse. It was OBVIOUS to me that Option-ARM Mortgages simply were not going to be paid back, there was no way, absolutely not way. But an adviser would have opened his textbook to Page 274 and pointed to me the sentence that says “mortgages are the safest investment possible, no need to ever worry about them”. So you get an idea of what I think of them.
My only mistake was not cashing out back then - as my bracket would have been lower (slightly lessening the take from THE MAN) and my return would have been higher - meaning that I would have had 6 years of not paying mortgage interest on my house (for that amount of money).
Advisers live in a static world - to them, nothing ever changes in our taxes or overall financial health - but I don’t. I live in Texas - if I lived in California, or retire in California (or any other state with an income tax), guess what: I get to pay state income tax on my 401k withdraws - probably not quite 10%, but close, in most cases. Now those states don’t get no access to that money (and they shouldn’t).
Another thing - I’m not as convinced as everyone else seems to be that we can live in this static world much longer. Our debt percentage is very close to that of Greece - maybe even higher now, and on a worse trajectory. We simply cannot maintain this trajectory - something will give. Either our taxes will go way, way, up, or the government will grab our retirement money and buy themselves close to another decade of free-wheeling spending. I don’t know the future - but I know it’s not static, something MUST give - just like it had to during the mortgage meltdown.
I would cash it out now. You cannot trust Obama, nor the GOP (they seem to be going along now).
I would be leery of doing any roll-overs....because Obama and the DNCGOP look like they will start going after IRA and 401K
Spend a little on a nice vacation....put some of it in regular savings (easy access)...some of it in long term investments (good mutual funds)...and stash some of it away in First Mattress and Bedspring in case all heck breaks loose
“He can’t take away high numismatic value US Gold coins - at least as the law stands right now.”
I doubt he bothers with that anyway. Most people that have real gold are looked at as Art Bell types, of which there are (relatively) few. This is not like the 1930s when people used gold coins daily (I think) and had currency back by gold (I think also). Today, to 99% of the country, the dollar is gold, and their is no reason to have that pain-in-the-neck metal around - same mindset that says “why stock up on stuff when Walmart and Sams are less than 10 miles away, and they’re always brimming?”.
Can Obama take Foreign Gold?
It depends on the amount you have in it. If you take out a large amount in a single year, the tax hit will be tremendous. But if you can survive by withdrawing only a small amount each year, you may actually have $0 taxes. Check with an accountant, or just play around in TurboTax with different scenarios.
Yes, all forms of gold, gold coinage, any form of gold can be confiscated - except for “high numismatic value US Mint gold coins.”
Over time the numismatic value of some of such coins often increases above the value of the gold itself. This is a major part of why they can't be confiscated.
But, despite the increase in both the metal and numismatic value, that value only comes to fruition when the coin is finally sold to a buyer - who always want to dicker on the price, of course. But, selling of such coinage isn't that difficult, buyers compete with each other, and auctions usually bring a better price than from approaching an individual buyer.
I understand that, I was wondering if I had invested in Canadian Gold Coins if our President could do an FDR on those?
Yes, most certainly - any foreign gold coins can be confiscated.
Is there any other way to invest in like *gold* such as stocks in gold companies etc that couldnt be FDR’d by OhBronco ?
Bump the bracket, load up your Roth IRA with enough traditional IRA money to almost reach the next tax bracket.
If you truly believe you’ll only get 1-2% from risky investments, you might as well put money into the US I-series savings bonds. They are paying 2.6%, it is tax-deferred, and if inflation takes off their rates go up with it.
I’ve got a bunch of money parked in a 2% college savings account, it’s tax-free if I use the money for my kid’s college, and I got a state tax deduction for every dollar I put into the account.
The major tax change seems to be eliminating the lower rates for capital gains. That won’t matter for IRAs, where you’ve already given up dividend and capital gains treatment in exchange for the tax-deferred growth. All IRA and 401K money is taxed as ordinary income.
The theory behind Roth IRAs is that taxes aren’t likely to be lower in the future, so you might as well invest after-tax dollars but get your earnings fully tax-free, rather than get the tax deduction now, and then pay full income tax on both the principle and earnings later.
Downside to a ROTH is that it will be the first thing targeted, and there’s nothing to keep them from taking your ROTH IRA you had for 20 years, and deciding that from now on the appreciation will be taxable. I expect that to happen sooner rather than later, and certainly before they nationalize 401Ks.
Security in bonds? Don’t tell me and other ex-holders of GM bonds that unless of course you belong to one of Obama’s pet unions like UAW. This Monarch elected by parasites and fellow racist can do anything he chooses because the Congress refuses to do their job. We my friends are in deep Kim-Chee!
Collectibles (Gold coins) held one year or longer are taxed at 28% as capital gains.
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