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Sandy Hook - it doesn't pass the smell test.

Posted on 01/24/2013 11:04:39 AM PST by eastexsteve

Though I have never thought of myself as a conspiracy nut, there are just some things about this incident that don’t pass the smell test for me. Perhaps there are some of you out there who can help me through some of this confusion. I speak as someone who owns many guns, including a couple AR-15 variants. (Well, maybe I’m a nut after all.) But, be that as it may, I think I have a few unanswered questions that haven’t been mentioned before on this topic.

1) A day after the shooting occurred, NBC News and the morning show in particular, were discussing how the Bushmaster rifle used by the killer was actually found in the trunk of his car, and up to four handguns were found in the school. This indicates he did not use the rifle. Though I realize that preliminary news reports can sometimes be sketchy on an incident like this, this was NBC, and not some fly by night news agency. And, NBC was not the only agency to report this. And, this was a full 24 hours after the incident occurred. I’ll let this stand on its own merits.

2) In discussing this with anti-gun people, they are quick to tell me that the medical examiner had determined that the victims were killed with a Bushmaster rifle. I would like to know how he was able to determine it was a Bushmaster, and not one of the other hundred AR-15 variants?

3) I also take issue with something else the medical examiner said. In his report, he said something to the effect of: “..the shooter used ammunition designed for maximum tissue damage..” This statement alludes to the use of hollow point ammunition. Have you ever tried to buy any 5.56 hollow point ammunition? Have you ever even seen any? To my knowledge, Hornady is the only manufacturer that makes these rounds in 5.56, and I’ve never been able to find any in the years I’ve been shooting, much less been able to buy any. And, this type of hollow point ammunition is very expensive. From what I understand, it costs 2 to 3 times as much as the standard hardball 5.56 ammunition. The news has the killers mother painted as a “survivalist.” This type of high dollar ammunition is not something a survivalist would buy, even if she could find it. Sorry, but unless I actually see the bullets, I’m not sold on the idea that he used hollow point ammunition in an AR-15 rifle.

4) Also, Lanza supposedly did all this killing by walking into a room with a concrete floor and concrete or brick walls, and started shooting. I guarantee you, those AR-15 bullets would be bouncing around in that room like superballs. How on earth did he keep from getting struck by a ricocheting round?

5) One thing about AR-15 variant rifles. They are semi-auto rifles with side ejection ports and 16 inch barrels. Those guns are LOUD. They are exponentially louder than the automatic pistols Lanza was carrying. They are so loud that if you have the misfortune of standing in front of the muzzle or close to the side proximity of the muzzle of one as it is being fired, it could very easily damage are hearing. Supposedly, Lanza walked into enclosed school rooms and capped off 30 or more rounds. Yet, I hear no mention about the victims or survivors suffering any hearing damage. Really?

6) Also, in regard to the report those rifles make, I performed a little experiment in the shop attached to my barn. I took one of my AR-15 rifles and fired it into a makeshift bullet trap while my wife and two neighbors stood outside. I then asked them to describe what they heard. Witnesses in the Sandy Hook school building reported hearing a “pop, pop, pop” sound when describing the shooting. When I performed my little experiment, neither my wife nor my neighbors described the sound as being “pop, pop, pop.” They described it being VERY loud, and being “BANG, BANG, BANG” and even “BOOM, BOOM, BOOM.” Now, it has been my experience that “pop, pop, pop” is the sound most semi-automatic pistols would make under those conditions.

I don’t know that anyone actually initiated a cover-up to make it look like the Sandy Hook shooter used a Bushmaster rifle when he actually used his handguns. But, then again, I wouldn’t have believed that Fast and Furious could happen. But, it did. From what I can tell, and from what I've seen, everything about this points to a semi-auto pistol, and not a Bushmaster rifle.


TOPICS: Conspiracy
KEYWORDS: assault; guncontrol; hook; newtown; rifle; sandy; sandyhook; secondamendment
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1 posted on 01/24/2013 11:04:50 AM PST by eastexsteve
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To: eastexsteve

Almost everything you wrote here shows fault with the media, not a Sandy Hook conspiracy. For example the first one the video was pretty clear it was a shotgun in the trunk, not an AR. The media didnt know the difference. This was supported by the police report that a shotgun was found in the trunk.


2 posted on 01/24/2013 11:08:24 AM PST by mnehring
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To: eastexsteve

A LOT “smells”, but they’re hiding it well. Records sealed and roadblocks to discovery, everywhere.


3 posted on 01/24/2013 11:09:07 AM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s & AR-15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. The 2nd Amendment is the First Human Right.)
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To: eastexsteve
this was NBC, and not some fly by night news agency.

BZZZZZT!

Wrong.

Thanks for playing.

4 posted on 01/24/2013 11:10:15 AM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: eastexsteve

Good questions, indeed.


5 posted on 01/24/2013 11:10:36 AM PST by Edgar3 (Don't THREAD on me!)
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To: eastexsteve

#3
You can get hollowpoint AR ammunition, either for varmint, target or personal protection, at any major ammo retailer or sporting superstore. It’s not as common as the bulk FMJ stuff, but it’s out there and easy (if expensive) to get.

A crazy bastard with an AR-15 and a couple of handguns walked into an elementary school and murdered 20 children and 6 adults. That’s a fact. Looking for conspiracies won’t change that.


6 posted on 01/24/2013 11:11:11 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: eastexsteve
Most of this can be attributed to incompetent and irresponsible reporting. Rushing to get to the story first no matter how inaccurate causes all kinds of media frenzy only the media can create.

The media itself creates the conspiracy types it decries.

Drag the heads of all the major news networks in front of congress for a good grilling like after previous elections they tried to skew with phony exit polling. They seriously need a good beat down.

7 posted on 01/24/2013 11:12:10 AM PST by frogjerk (Obama Claus is coming to town!)
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To: eastexsteve

The official indicates they recovered the Bushmaster inside the school—not in the trunk.


8 posted on 01/24/2013 11:12:10 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: eastexsteve

#2
The ME was already aware that the shooter used a Bushmaster AR-15 variant and handguns. A simple analysis of fragments would tell the coroner the caliber and twist. Not much of a leap when you’re comparing .223 to 9mm.


9 posted on 01/24/2013 11:13:31 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: ShadowAce
Official Report
10 posted on 01/24/2013 11:14:17 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: eastexsteve
Endlessly speculating about conspiracies serves little purpose.

Here are two facts:

(1) Almost no details about this incident have been made public record. The public has only a broad sketch of what happened.

(2) Despite the lack of full information, the administration is demanding - on the basis of this incident - that 225 years of Constitutional jurisprudence and 350 years of American tradition be changed overnight with almost no consultation or deliberation.

11 posted on 01/24/2013 11:14:17 AM PST by wideawake
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To: eastexsteve

#4
You’ve obviously never fired an AR at cinderblock and brick. Zips right through, depending on the construction and thickness.


12 posted on 01/24/2013 11:15:05 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: carriage_hill

Close your eyes while we guide you out of here.

It is too horrific for you to see.

=No eyewitness of aftermath.


13 posted on 01/24/2013 11:15:13 AM PST by Scrambler Bob ( Concerning bo -- that refers to the president. If I capitalize it, I mean the dog.)
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To: eastexsteve

What the heck, might as well address the others.

#2. They said it was a Bushmaster because that is what the police reported the gun as being. They had it in their possession so they know what brand it was.

#3. Hollow point .223 is rather common. I have it loaded up in several magazines now.

#4. If you’ve ever shot a cinder block, you would know that the bullet penetrates and disintegrates. It doesn’t bounce around. Especially a hollow point which is made to expand and break apart.

#5 & #6 I take it you haven’t shot an AR even though you said you did in #6. They actually aren’t that loud. An AR10 that shoots a 7.62 is loud but an AR15 only shoots a .223, not a large round. Regarding #6, it is rather silly to describe if someone used the term ‘pop’ versus ‘bang’ but acoustics have a lot in play. How much will a room muffle. A concrete room with carpet on the floor and possibly drywall will absorb a lot of sound.


14 posted on 01/24/2013 11:15:32 AM PST by mnehring
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To: eastexsteve

#5
20 dead kids and six dead adults. Yeah, and everybody is going to be asking about their hearing? BTW, there was an extremely low number of wounded (two, I think). The rest died, so no point in asking them.


15 posted on 01/24/2013 11:16:47 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: eastexsteve

Its not just the news agencies.

there are videos of various law enforcement officials making all sorts of conflicting statements on the weapons used.

One of them states that the perp used 4 pistols and no long guns.

Every video I saw on the issue was accessed through a link posted by Freepers on various articles right here so i don’t have the links, but the videos are (or were) out there.


16 posted on 01/24/2013 11:17:20 AM PST by Iron Munro (I Miss America, don't you?)
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To: eastexsteve

#6
WTF? Seriously? Some people hear “Pop” and some hear “Boom” and they heard the exact same thing, they just used different words. Did you know that the French think a cow makes a “wazoo wazoo” sound? Do you seriously think they don’t have cows?


17 posted on 01/24/2013 11:18:52 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: eastexsteve

#1
The most retarded thing you say in your entire post:

“...this was NBC, and not some fly by night news agency...”


18 posted on 01/24/2013 11:19:37 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: wideawake

I live in CT, about 40 minutes from Newtown. I know people who lost loved ones that day. I know an elderly gentleman who cries as he talks about his having work for months carving tombstones for the children of his friends. This was handled badly and the newsmedia has been putting out all kinds of crazy stuff from the minute we learned about it. And this is so convenient for those in power. They would much rather we waste our time talking about yet another conspiracy theory rather than our debt or Benghazi or the discovery in an Italian court that green energy has turned into a money laundering outlet for the mob or so many other things. We deserve what we get.


19 posted on 01/24/2013 11:19:37 AM PST by sorrisi (CAP spending and TRADE Congress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: wideawake

Agreed.
We don’t need retarded conspiracy theories in order to defend our Constitutional rights.


20 posted on 01/24/2013 11:20:20 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: Iron Munro

Reporters are LAZY, especially in the past 30 years.
They heard one NBC reporter say something and they use it as an uncited source. That’s how it works, as we’ve all learned over the years.


21 posted on 01/24/2013 11:21:34 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: eastexsteve

I wouldn’t go out on a limb with your proof being the media made mistakes reporting the story. I can tell you from first hand experience that the media will fill in wide gaps in information with off the cuff guesses and report it as fact.

The fact they reported about an AR 15 is not proof that it was used or that it was not used.

I’m not sure trying to argue conspiracy is going to help our cause anyway.


22 posted on 01/24/2013 11:27:37 AM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: eastexsteve

here is the conspiracy. They make stupid rules. Schools are guns free zone. Then blame guns when someone bent on criminal intent breaks the rule.


23 posted on 01/24/2013 11:27:43 AM PST by the_daug
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To: eastexsteve

In EVERY shooting such as Newton, almost the first thing that the cops & media did was to hold up the weapon used for all to see. I ask myself......why not here? No conspiracy, just a legitimate question.


24 posted on 01/24/2013 11:28:01 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: eastexsteve
Some nutjob with a gun shot a bunch of people in a school & now the gun-grabbers are using it as an excuse to dilute the Second Amendment.

That's all I need to know. All this other noise about how some of the parents are actors, they were involved with this & that, etc is wingnuttery of the same type as 9/11 "truthers".

No thanks.

25 posted on 01/24/2013 11:28:44 AM PST by gdani
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To: eastexsteve

What difference does it make?


26 posted on 01/24/2013 11:29:03 AM PST by McGruff (No New RINOs!)
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To: Scrambler Bob

Yes, they were protecting little kids.
The cops out there saw PLENTY.
So, like the OJ “conspiracy”, how many people have to be on the same sheet of paper to stick to one, detailed, false story?


27 posted on 01/24/2013 11:29:12 AM PST by SJSAMPLE
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To: Scrambler Bob
Close your eyes while we guide you out of here. It is too horrific for you to see. =No eyewitness of aftermath.

Sorry, no!! Little kids should never have to see something like that. That was a correct decision.

28 posted on 01/24/2013 11:31:03 AM PST by KosmicKitty (WARNING: Hormonally crazed woman ahead!!)
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To: eastexsteve

#1 Sandy Hook massacre did happen

#2 Sandy Hook massacre was NOT a one-man job (too many witnesses all saying there were others - “three men walked by our classroom” - men who sped away from the scene, armed man who was chased down by police behind the school, etc.).

#3 We will NEVER know the truth about what weapons were used

#4 We may or may not ever hear what psychotropic drugs Lanza was on.

#5 The media is blatantly biased and trying hard to use this story and the dead children to further curtail our rights.

#6 We will never know the truth about what weapons were REALLY used - even the ME changed his story on prompting from FEDERAL officials... Local law enforcement were the ones who said multiple handguns. It was only after Federal authorities showed up that the story changed to two handguns and a Bushmaster...


29 posted on 01/24/2013 11:32:33 AM PST by TheBattman (Isn't the lesser evil... still evil?)
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To: eastexsteve

Did you happen to notice that none of your nay-sayers addressed the “AR15 in an enclosed concrete space” observations?


30 posted on 01/24/2013 11:33:24 AM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: Scrambler Bob

I’ve been reading some of the SH Conspiracy Threads here, and there’s too many ‘loose ends’. This whole thing should be pretty cut-and-dried, by now. I’m not a believer in ‘black helicopters’, but now I’m beginning to wonder.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2980479/posts?q=1&;page=1

and

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2978500/posts?q=1&;page=1

and

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2978643/posts?q=1&;page=1


31 posted on 01/24/2013 11:34:34 AM PST by carriage_hill (AR-10s & AR-15s are the 21st Century's Muskets. The 2nd Amendment is the First Human Right.)
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To: eastexsteve

What about motive? I haven’t heard any, have you? What about the name of the off duty SWAT officer from another district that just happened to be in the woods and happened to lead the police on a foot pursuit?

I fully believe the murders occured in some form, but I do not believe the official narrative.

What about the Church of Satan, which is hubbed in Newtown and which Lanza was a member? Did the other members know and/or participate? Is the town covering up what would be an embarassment and likely kill any future the town might have? Could someone be trying to prevent the national Christian revival, which would be the appropriate response? Has the Church of Satan taken over Newtown at high levels in a fashion reminiscent of the Klan in Southern towns back in the ‘60s? Can you really tell me that there is a natural, psycological reason for someone to murder a kindergarten class and that demonic possession did not play a role? If you dig into the town and its history, it is quite f’ed up and bizzare. What is going on there?


32 posted on 01/24/2013 11:35:47 AM PST by wolfman23601
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To: Scrambler Bob

—Close your eyes while we guide you out of here.

It is too horrific for you to see.

=No eyewitness of aftermath.—

You are an idiot. Pure and simple.


33 posted on 01/24/2013 11:37:03 AM PST by justice14 ("stand up defend or lay down and die")
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To: mnehring

I just got on Brownells website. I found the Hornady hollow points, but not in stock. I’ve never seen any others. Any hollow points I’ve ever shot in 5.56 I had to reload my own.

Both my ARs are loud. They are louder than my bolt action .308. I sure as heck wouldn’t want to be in the same enclosed room with them going off.

Regarding a ricochet, I’ve shot 5.56 hardball ammo against concrete walls at 100 yds and had the bullets bounce back within 20 yds of me.


34 posted on 01/24/2013 11:38:52 AM PST by eastexsteve
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To: eastexsteve
Democrats are opportunists of the highest order. They will use any tragedy to further their agenda. They will even create tragedies (Fast and Furious) and not take responsibility for the carnage. So as callous as it sounds, if Sandy Hook had happened three years earlier, Brian Terry, Jaime Zapata and hundreds of Mexican citizens wouldn't have lost their lives at the hands of those with F n F guns. The Obama Admin wouldn't have needed F n F to put their gun control agenda in place.
35 posted on 01/24/2013 11:41:56 AM PST by originalbuckeye (Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy)
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To: SJSAMPLE

And there was not a single teacher or principal or janitor or any other adult carrying a firearm who could have taken out the deranged shooter sooner, much sooner.

I do not have a concealed carry permit, but I am getting ready to apply. One never knows where the next deranged person will confront.


36 posted on 01/24/2013 11:42:13 AM PST by entropy12 (The republic is doomed when people figure out they can get free stuff by voting democrats)
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To: kiryandil

“AR15 in an enclosed concrete space”

What kind of concrete was used to construct the building? What was on the walls of the classroom?

The conspiracy nuts are basing their arguments on things they don’t know and the guessings of the media during the confused hours. That’s a losing proposition. The nuts don’t have any data to support their argument.

What is so unbelievable about the whole scenario? He shot his way into the school and killed a bunch of people who couldn’t defend themselves.

If politicians are gutless, they wouldn’t be less gutless if he used a 9mm instead of a Bushmaster.


37 posted on 01/24/2013 11:42:39 AM PST by AppyPappy (You never see a massacre at a gun show.)
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To: SJSAMPLE; eastexsteve
#6
WTF? Seriously? Some people hear “Pop” and some hear “Boom” and they heard the exact same thing, they just used different words. Did you know that the French think a cow makes a “wazoo wazoo” sound? Do you seriously think they don’t have cows?

SJ - you're obviously not familiar with the different sounds different guns make.

38 posted on 01/24/2013 11:43:55 AM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: eastexsteve

I’ve seen full on crazy wipe away tear gas/pepper spray and keep on coming, I’ve also seen them get right back up after being tazed. Loud noise is not going to be a big issue, especially after the first shot.


39 posted on 01/24/2013 11:44:06 AM PST by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: eastexsteve

Next time...you get to thinking. Don’t....go off half cocked.


40 posted on 01/24/2013 11:45:46 AM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Scrambler Bob
"Close your eyes while we guide you out of here."

And every little boy obeyed ?

Don't run in the house, stop bouncing that ball, sit straight in your chair, don't splash in the mud puddles ...

Don't look ?

I don't think so.

41 posted on 01/24/2013 11:46:45 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: AppyPappy; eastexsteve
What kind of concrete was used to construct the building? What was on the walls of the classroom?

Oh, for cripes sake. Are you not in the least bit familiar with the general construction techniques used in most of these elementary schools?

They're pretty much cookie-cutter.

42 posted on 01/24/2013 11:46:45 AM PST by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: eastexsteve

These are questions that are worthy of honest and convincing answers. Especially now after the narrative (”Adam Lanza, the troubled lone gunman, entered the school and began murdering children with an automatic rifle...etc.”) appears to be closed even though the investigation is said to be continuing.


43 posted on 01/24/2013 11:46:45 AM PST by Resettozero
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To: eastexsteve
Also ?? Did I hear correctly that ther were no survivors after being shot? Only dead people and no wounded victims?

this stinks like benghazi

44 posted on 01/24/2013 11:47:29 AM PST by ▀udda▀udd (>> F U B O << "What the hell kind of country is this if I can only hate a man if he's white?")
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To: eastexsteve

Item 1: NBC reported it wrong. There is video of a shotgun being taken out of the trunk.

Item 2: I have always been skeptical of the medical examiner, who came out the next day and declared it was .223. He’s worked in that same county for 30 years, and there aren’t alot of gunshot deaths - how is he so expert at identifying the caliber of round used?

Item 3: I agree....but per item 2, I think the medical examiner is just talking out of his backside.

Item 4: Concrete block walls...the bullets probably went into them.

Item 5: Lanza wore hearing protection. I haven’t heard anything about injuries at all, so the lack of hearing damage reports is moot.

Item 6: I agree...he very well may have used his pistols. The investigation would normally be ‘open’ after 10 days; but, the police had a judge seal it. Therefore, we don’t know anything....except cherry picked information dished out to a lap dog media.


45 posted on 01/24/2013 11:51:49 AM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: mnehring

Isn’t it interesting the amount of shootings there have been during the obama presidency: Connecticut, Sandy Hook, then the countless ones from Fast & Furious.

I don’t know what to make of it, but something seems esque.


46 posted on 01/24/2013 11:55:03 AM PST by Son-Joshua (son-joshua)
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To: dangerdoc

Without exception, every time I have had first hand knowledge of an event that was reported in the local media, they get at least one thing wrong.

Either they give the wrong address, or they attribute the wrong title to somebody, or occassionally their grasp of why the event is newsworthy is twisted 180 degrees.

Its uncanny really. Every single time.


47 posted on 01/24/2013 11:59:46 AM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: McGruff

I think it would make a difference if, for example, some of the murders were with one of his pistols. We keep hearing hysteria over ‘assault weapons’...but political manuevering aside, there has been no official, in writing, report on which weapons were used. We know what he carried, but not what he used.

I suspect we won’t get an official report, until we get AWB 2.0. Then the public will see the report...and if he didn’t even use the AR-15, ‘oh well - what difference does it make’ will be the standard line.


48 posted on 01/24/2013 12:04:34 PM PST by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: kiryandil

So.......you don’t know?


49 posted on 01/24/2013 12:06:35 PM PST by AppyPappy (You never see a massacre at a gun show.)
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To: eastexsteve

“I would like to know how he was able to determine it was a Bushmaster, and not one of the other hundred AR-15 variants?”

Well, that is simple. He didn’t say it was the Bushmaster, he just said the wounds were caused by “the rifle”. Since there was only one rifle found at the scene, it’s a simple inference to take that as referring to the Bushmaster, but he did not actually say that.


50 posted on 01/24/2013 12:12:28 PM PST by Boogieman
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