Posted on 11/20/2013 7:19:50 PM PST by Enza Ferreri
If I misunderstand your comments, please let me know.
It’s very important to remember that the purpose in Christian doctrine does not include any principle having to do with assigning a new moral status to animals.
In fact, we are warned against the sin (and the lie) of worshiping the creature rather than the creator.
“...who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.” (Romans 1:25-24)
I disagree that the old and new testaments are all that different. In the old testament animals are in high regard - there blood is the blood of life and is sacred. But sin requires the shedding of blood, so this was used as a substitute until the appointed time for the “real” thing to appear. And the animal had to be “without blemish”. This prepared the way for The Messiah to come - without blemish - and to shed His blood as the price for our sins. The animals are really a preparation for the Messiah - pretty high status, I would say
Good points. Also, Proverbs 12:10 says “The righteous man cares for the needs of his animal...” (NIV) or “A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast...” (KJV)
Also when God rebukes Jonah for not caring about the inhabitants of Ninevah He also mentions the many animals that would die if He destroyed the city.
Really? If you wrote this and believe it you have redefined Christianity and you are dead wrong. If it is sarcasm my mistake. This has to be the dumbest thing a 'Christian' has ever written.
If it’s true that animals have high status according to Christian doctrine—I must say, such a thing seems to have gone unnoticed by scholars during all the two thousand years of Christian tradition.
If this is incorrect, please let me know.
The animals were created just below man, and man was given dominion over them. I agree, man has not always done this (or anything else, for that matter) all that well, but that is created order before sin. The sacrifice of Jesus offers us the opportunity - as followers of Jesus - to be restored to that created order and to be at one with Him. The animals are not offered (nor do they need) this gift of grace.
It would depend on what you mean by “high status”. Many Christian thinkers and apologists have preached on the issue of animals having an after-life. There is much Biblical evidence to support this, and it’s only been in recent times that mankind has treated this as some type of “threat” to his own “special relationship” to the Lord. More indicative of the mentality of humanity than of God having changed His mind about animals being eternal (remember the Garden?) God loves all of His creation far more than humanity is capable of understanding — and not just His two-legged creation, either. He cared enough for animals to insist that they be given a rest on the 7th day - as their owners were to do for themselves, and He made a covenant with them after the Flood — as He did with Noah. Animals are only at the bottom of the totem pole for some who haven’t bothered to read their Scriptures. (And the concept of worshiping the creation applies just as well to the worship of children and idolatry that some parents exhibit on their behalf.... Just sayin’.)
Indeed.
I agree with this. Who else but animals could mimic and foretell with their innocence the shed blood of Christ?
I have always understood Jesus was a vegetarian. Furthermore man can easily happily and more healthily live on vegetable legumes and fish ( and eggs and dairy etc if you so desire)
The GUT rots when it eats flesh of beasts. There is no question about it
Now I ain’t gonna argue that ribs steak chops and the rest don’t TASTE good.
Not do I think eating animals or not affects the environs (in the 1st world only ).
So in short. Didn’t Christ teach compassion for ALL beings, great and small? Speaking and dumb?
Methinks so
In all sincerity, I should point out that their lack of capacity to choose between right and wrong excludes animals from having any moral status in and of themselves. They are amoral entities.
We should treat animals kindly for one reason—to glorify God the Creator.
Except for a single exception, it seems to me animals in the Bible have no intrinsic value and are nothing more than props and symbols—unlike people who are given value by their Creator as sovereign individuals.
That one exception is when the father of all lies became an animal in a failed attempt to destroy God’s creation.
Humans have the potential to exist on a higher plane (infinitely so) than animals because humans, as John Lennox has explained, are the one creature God can become. As in the case of Jesus Christ, who glorifies God when he fulfills Biblical prophesy in crushing the head of the serpent.
“Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.”
(1 Timothy 4:1-5)
LOL there are so many people screwed up on the subject {any subject } regarding religion specifically christian religion when you start talking about Animals they are going to go radically overboard trying to convert dogs and cats to one denomination or another .....
this is going to get way out of hand people will start fights over weather their cows are catholic or baptist !
“Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.”
(1 Timothy 4:1-5)
I don’t have a doctorate in philosophy but I’m comfortable dealing with it at any level.
Many philosophers, including Singer, trip and fall over the subjective in their attempts to get at the objective. This is part of the process of transitioning from philosopher (lover of wisdom) to philosophist (lover of bad or false arguments).
Postmodernism tried to tell us we could change any text—as is attempted here with the Bible—into whatever we please. But postmodernism begins with a desire to end all truth. And in denying truth, postmodernism makes a truth claim and thus refutes itself—destroying all of postmodernism in one fell swoop.
Four years of lectures from postmodernist philosophers seems like a lot to unlearn, especially since it’s a task faced by millions of current and future graduates. But I’m convinced it can be done with as little effort as it takes to remember that truth is not subjective.
“Four years of lectures from postmodernist philosophers” should have been “Four years of lectures from postmodernist professors”
Does that mean I will still have those annoying mosquitoes buzzing me in Heaven?
That one comment shows that you clearly don't have the first clue about Christianity. According to the Bible, Jesus Christ was God made flesh. Exactly the same God who wrote/inspired the Old Testament.
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