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Escalation in Ukraine
January 23, 2014 | Various

Posted on 01/23/2014 6:47:09 PM PST by annalex

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To: Zeneta
And here


41 posted on 01/24/2014 5:56:11 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Revolting cat!
low influence characters like John McCain, George Soros, and Sean Penn, all of them unknown and insignificant outside the borders of this parish, become to the believers in their own parish’s powers the movers and shakers on the international scene

It is though a fight that very much involves the strategy game to avoid a direct involvement of NATO air force. So, yeah, McCain is a player, -- the one both sides want to stay out.

42 posted on 01/24/2014 5:58:21 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: ctdonath2
Having seen several pictures of cops on fire from protester-thrown firebombs, I’m very surprised they haven’t just opened up live gunfire in return

They don't have live ammunition, and are trained to withstand getting torched: observe the men with fire extinguishers nearby. The dynamics is, I think, dictated by adopting the Intifada model in order not to get into a Libya model. Violence is intentionally moderated on both sides.


43 posted on 01/24/2014 6:02:21 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Jimmy Valentine
I am very worried about my friends in Ukraine.

I would be worried too, but the rise of national consciousness is encouraging in any nation. It would be encouraging in ours.


44 posted on 01/24/2014 6:06:05 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
The protests are in large city centers and have rocks and sticks for weapons.

Not entirely true...


45 posted on 01/24/2014 6:09:13 AM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: cunning_fish
The problem is EU doesn’t want Ukraine as a member.

That is not really a problem. Ukraine, at least the western part, wants to inoculate itself against any re-unification with Russia and generally and pull into Asia. That they already have accomplished.


46 posted on 01/24/2014 6:09:36 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Live stream from somewhere in Ukraine:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/euromajdan/pop-out


47 posted on 01/24/2014 6:23:58 AM PST by Rebelbase (Tagline: optional, printed after your name on post)
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To: annalex

Kiev live stream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jrZcAsPKK74#t=0


48 posted on 01/24/2014 6:26:32 AM PST by Rebelbase (Tagline: optional, printed after your name on post)
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To: annalex

Do you realize that the Western part is the least productive and practically the welfare state paid by the East?


49 posted on 01/24/2014 6:35:51 AM PST by cunning_fish
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To: ctdonath2
The dynamics of this revolution puzzle me, and I can’t quite put a finger on whence my puzzlement.

I was also puzzled by the intensity of the protest against what amounted to a bad trade deal with the European Union, so I started looking into it. The so-called revolution which is being presented as 'spontaneous' and 'pro-democracy', was in fact planned well in advance as a pre-election tactic and is being carried out by militant National Socialists from western Ukraine.

Now rather than compete in upcoming elections against an incumbent President who has lowered gas prices, restructured the government balance sheet, and raised the country's bond rating to attract investors, the divided 'pro-democracy' crowd has decided to attempt a putsch.

The real irony is that if this type of civil disruption (rocks, clubs, fire bombs, etc.) were to take place in any western democratic nation, the government crackdown would be swift and harsh.

50 posted on 01/24/2014 7:04:38 AM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: Rebelbase

Link at #47: Protestors are piling up car tires in the neutral zone.


51 posted on 01/24/2014 8:08:35 AM PST by Rebelbase (Tagline: optional, printed after your name on post)
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To: cunning_fish

The Soviets heavily invested in the Eastern part of Ukraine.

Much of Western Ukraine was Polish before the war, the Poles were evicted and replaced with Tartars and others the Soviets deemed unworthy to live in the more prosperous Eastern part.


52 posted on 01/24/2014 8:10:31 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Well, Soviets annexed rather huge part of Germany into Poland to compensate, moving the Poles in. I think the majority of Poles involved has clearly benefited from this deal (Germans not so much).


53 posted on 01/24/2014 8:47:18 AM PST by cunning_fish
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To: mac_truck

Ah right. I’m slowly learning, over many years, how much planning goes into these spontaneous revolts. Wish I could remember which one was centered on a bulldozer.

And yes, part of my puzzlement comes from wondering why the first person to set a cop on fire wasn’t shot dead in seconds.


54 posted on 01/24/2014 8:59:01 AM PST by ctdonath2 (Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless.)
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To: cunning_fish
I think the majority of Poles involved has clearly benefited from this deal (Germans not so much).

The Germans were beneficiaries of The Marshall Plan.

Poles got "The Marshall Stalin Plan"

55 posted on 01/24/2014 9:07:34 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: annalex

BFL


56 posted on 01/24/2014 10:34:31 AM PST by Faith65 (Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior!)
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To: gwjack

I have friends in Ukraine too, and that is how they describe the situation also. Very dangerous and volatile situation. They say the government has 1000s of hired mercenaries stirring up trouble. Also that the government has tracked the cell phone numbers of all who congregated in the square and warned them (via text) that they are known to have been in the square and are subject to arrest at any time. There has been much violence by the government and secret arrests of people. Very Stalinist actions.


57 posted on 01/24/2014 2:40:46 PM PST by boxlunch (Psalm 2)
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To: mac_truck
Yes. The weapon of choice has become a molotov cocktail. They have a shortage of glass bottles and the cry is out to bring more; the citizens oblige. I saw your photo today. Also there is a theory that the milkbucket-shaped bullets in the first photo came from a hunting gun.



Today's Zyalt

58 posted on 01/24/2014 5:37:14 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: cunning_fish
It is no longer an economic issue. Ukraine would rather starve in Europe than be a part of USSR 2.0.


59 posted on 01/24/2014 5:39:55 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Rebelbase
Thank you.


60 posted on 01/24/2014 5:40:57 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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