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Guns, Bathrooms, and Legal Consequences
Gun Watch ^
| 27 June, 2014
| Dean Weingarten
Posted on 06/27/2014 5:47:42 AM PDT by marktwain
One of the most legally dangerous places to carry a handgun is in the bathroom. It may not be as legally dangerous as an airport, but it ranks high on the list for the same reason: it creates an environment where it is easy to make a legally dangerous mistake. A church going lady in Wisconsin found this out in March. She will recover from the error, but it has already cost her significant time, money, and stress. From jsonline.com:
Susan Hitchler, 66, was charged in April with negligent handling of a weapon, a misdemeanor. The complaint indicated that on March 19 she had left her handgun in a stall of the women's restroom at Elmbrook Church. A church employee found the gun within a few minutes and turned it over to security. The most common way for people to carry concealed handguns is attached to the belt or waist band in some way. When people use a stall in a bathroom, the handgun becomes an impediment. I can imagine the nodding of heads of those who have carried. Nearly everyone has encountered this problem in one way or another. Undo the belt, and the handgun is no longer supported. If you place the handgun on the floor, even if it is still in the holster, it may be seen from outside the stall. Some solve this dilemma by discreetly covering the holster and handgun inside the clothes at their feet. Others detach the holstered gun and place it out of sight behind the toilet or on top the toilet paper dispenser. Worse, some unholster the handgun and place it in a "convenient" spot. That is not a good idea. From tampabay.com, a detective left his firearm:
At a hearing late last week, Circuit Judge Lloyd V. Carter ruled on a defense motion to dismiss the case based on a lack of evidence that a crime had been committed. The motion had been argued in May.
There, perched atop a toilet paper dispenser inside a busy bathroom inside a busy movie theater, he discovered the loaded Glock 26, a small semiautomatic weapon. One from the Missouri Capitol:
Dave Evans, legislative assistant to Republican House Speaker Tim Jones, left a loaded 9mm pistol in a stall at Capitol in Jefferson City, Missouri One that involves an airport bathroom :
The weapon, a .380-caliber pistol in a black case, was found by a custodian in the restroom near the security checkpoint about 6:45 p.m. Tuesday, according to a Peoria County Sheriffs Office report on the incident. In Michigan, a security guard:
An armed school security officer hired in response to the Newtown shootings forgot to take his gun with him when he left the bathroom. The problem is one of human nature. Humans are fallible. We all make mistakes. If you detach your handgun, distractions can occur at exactly the wrong instance, overriding your awareness of your handgun's location with something that seems more important. In that critical instant, the handgun is left in the bathroom. That error can come with considerable legal consequences. You will survive, but your pocketbook, reputation, and your constitutional right to own and carry guns may not.
The unloaded handgun was unattended in the restroom for a few moments, Matt Young, director of The Chatfield School in Lapeer, Mich., told Michigan Live in a statement.
Most people discover the error very quickly. I surmise that in the vast majority of cases, the handgun is retrieved without any ill effects. It is those few cases where someone else finds the firearm and reports it to the police, that consequences start spiraling out of control.
Those consequences are considerably less severe than if you manage to fumble the handgun and have a negligent discharge in the process. Here is one from Tampa:
Bliss was sitting on the toilet in a hotel bathroom when a woman in the next stall accidentally let her handgun slip out of her waist holster. The weapon discharged when it hit the ground.
It can happen. There are almost no modern handguns that will discharge when dropped. If someone grabs for them as they are falling, and contacts the trigger... that is another scenario. It is a good reason to have some form of retention device on the holster, and to keep the handgun in the holster when you are in the bathroom. If you keep the holster on your belt or waistband, you are fairly well assured of not leaving the firearm behind.
Alternatives to belt or waistband carry offer other challenges and possibilities. It is possible, if the person is carrying the firearm in a pocket, to have the gun slip out, unnoticed, as the clothes are rearranged. This is not common, but we are talking about rare events. While fannypacks may not be fashionable, they offer a fairly secure and easy way to carry concealed handguns. In the bathroom stall, it is usually necessary to detach the fannypack. The handgun remains concealed, but the possibility of leaving the fannypack is ever present. One retired officer that I know hangs the fannypack on the door coat hook to keep it in sight. It can be placed on top of lowered clothes. The same concerns apply to purses, briefcases, and non-traditional methods such as camera cases or tablet cases. Shoulder holsters offer a different approach that helps keep the firearm secure. If you remember the detective on "Barney Miller" that was always going to the bathroom, there was a reason that he used a shoulder holster. Leaving guns in bathrooms seems to be exclusive to concealed carry. I have not heard of any handguns that were left in bathrooms where the gun was openly carried. Guns carried openly tend to be better secured to belts, be in retention holsters, and are usually larger and not as easily misplaced.
I have not found any cases of handguns left in bathrooms that were stolen and used in crimes, but it could happen.
To sum up: in the bathroom, be sure to maintain control of the firearm when undoing belts or clothes. Do not inadvertently display the gun to others who might view it from outside the stall. Do not remove your gun from the holster and set it down; do not remove your holster from your belt or waistband and set it down; if using a fannypack, purse, or other detachable container, keep it in sight. Check the security of your gun when you rearrange your clothes; check the bathroom to make sure you have not left personal possessions when you leave. Consider shoulder holsters, they might work for your needs. Do not be the next person on the national news who left a gun in a public bathroom.
©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
TOPICS: Education; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; bathroom; guncontrol; law
Do anything long enough, and you will make mistakes.
posted on 06/27/2014 5:47:42 AM PDT
Speaking from experience, one should not use “off the body” concealed carry either, such as a briefcase or daytimer-type case.
posted on 06/27/2014 5:54:07 AM PDT
(Democrats are like slinkies. Only good for pushing down stairs.)
There are ankle and shoulder holsters that are not dependent on your belt.
posted on 06/27/2014 5:58:51 AM PDT
(Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
I dunno. I’ve carried a gun for a living for some 20 odd years. I have never left my service weapon in the john. Do I know someone who has? oh yeah. I do a post bathroom checklist: gas? check. Cuffs? check. mags? check. gun? check. Hasn’t let me down yet.
posted on 06/27/2014 6:08:45 AM PDT
by Celtic Conservative
(tease not the dragon for thou art crunchy when roasted and taste good with ketchup)
You should be acutely aware of your firearm at all times, no matter where you are. You will be held responsible if someone else gets a hold of it whether you leave it in a bathroom stall or your car. How people aren't is beyond me.....for one thing, the cost. Would most people just leave $500 or more laying around and forgot about it?
When I am carrying one of my $1500+ 1911's around you better believe I know where it is at all times! LOL!
posted on 06/27/2014 7:40:39 AM PDT
(It's the Jihad, stupid......)
Agree! Forgetfuls should not be carrying or should at least wear it such that is does not get left behind.
posted on 06/27/2014 7:50:59 AM PDT
(This is not my tag!)
posted on 06/27/2014 7:58:35 AM PDT
(Proud resident of the State of Jefferson)
Always check the stall before you leave.
Look around. Check for your Wallet, Keys, Cell Phone, YOUR GUN, articles of clothing, luggage, shopping bags...
Make sure everything that is yours is WITH you.
Always. Whether it's in the air port, gas station or public rest stop.
If you're an Air Marshal then it's your friggin' JOB not to misplace your gun.
posted on 06/27/2014 8:04:07 AM PDT
(Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
What kind of church would drag one of its congregants like this in the mud... much salvation and forgiveness?
posted on 06/27/2014 9:04:13 AM PDT
(A well regulated gun being necessary to the state, the rights of the militia shall not be infringed)
I may have just found a problem in search of a solution... hmmm
posted on 06/27/2014 9:12:24 AM PDT
(For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do nothings)
I wondered about that as well. I believe that in most churches, the incident would have been handled privately.
posted on 06/27/2014 10:16:57 AM PDT
(The old media must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
she wasn’t an “Only One” so she had to be taught a lesson
posted on 06/28/2014 9:14:04 PM PDT
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