Posted on 07/22/2014 11:44:48 AM PDT by IChing
This is a close call but there are too many cases where they ate not close calls. The police have militarized and pushed the constitution beyond the breaking point. Not all of them but more than enough to make me think twice these days. And I grew up in New York where I was shot at for making some guy who happened to be a drunk off duty cop look bad in front of his girlfriend. But I did not hold that against all cops. Hell my cousin was a NY cop. But the militarization has gone way too far.
I totally agree.
“Shoot first and ask questions later” has always been, throughout history, the default position of the King’s men.
They preserve that privilege by exercising that privilege.
Respect Leviathan, or die.
Oh...ok...I get it....you are an Ex cop....
The victim’s arrest history is immaterial.
He was out, free, and walking around at liberty, having obviously paid for his crimes with prior incarcerations. If he had current charges, they must not have been bad enough to incarcerate him before trial because there he was, out and walking around in the daylight.
Cops cannot treat people as one-size fits all zombies. People have medical conditions. 400 pound people always have medical conditions. When asthma kicks in, in reaction to stress, a cop’s aftershave or whatever trigger, it closes the windpipe. Interrupt breathing and you interrupt the heart. Without a rescue inhaler you die. Quickly.
When someone is crying they can’t breathe, then the aggressor needs stop and think medical emergency. But no one did. In fact, they kept his chest compressed against the ground, squeezing whatever air was still left in his lungs out, instead of rolling him over. The fact also remains no one tried to recussitate him. They might not have been able to get a burst of inhaler into him but they certainly could have done CPR to keep circulation going until an ambulance got there - and if rules say cops can’t do CPR, then any bystander could have done so.
let’s not forget this was over a cigarette - a cigarette.
This was not a rapist, or a child molestor or a murderer caught in the act. This was not a crazy PCP-ridden wacko.
It was a petty criminal with a freaking cigarette.
Since when is allegedly selling a cigarette a capital offense? Since when is our police force focused on cigarettes instead of illegals?
There was no capital offense, but what is offensive is yet another group of young, superman yahoo cops using instant excessive force instead of waiting for backup, and cooler, more mature heads to prevail.
And what is up with tatted street cops dressed like slobs? yeah.no. Maybe a uniform would remind these youngsters that they are peace officers, hired to serve and protect, not to act out like WWF second-string yahoos in a fight-club.
I’ll support cops all day long but I’ll be damned if I’m gonna support jackboots within their ranks.
That's good analysis.
I see people standing out on the corners of Cleveland, Akron, and suburban freeway exit ramps in 80+ degree heat with signs begging for loose change.
Good point.
But gangs do not rely on standard issue bums as lookouts because they are unpredictable and inattentive.
Garner was wearing recent vintage high end sneakers, was clean and presentable, and lived in a nearby house.
I believe New York is #1 in the country for the sale of black-market cigarettes.
Oh, I think you're right on the money there.
To me, it is very possible he was simply out hustling a few bucks by selling cigarettes.
I think he was doing both: if I am getting paid to wait around as a diversion to police, I might as well collect some extra cash on the side from a business that can never get me for more than a misdemeanor.
Oh, look - the "fourth person present exonerative" tense...
Monty Python and the Holy Grail: "I'm not dead yet!"
He is there as a lookout for people who are selling things that are stronger.
And part of his job is to argue with and stall the police.
He knew precisely what he was doing.
Death for traffic tickets.
Or for pre-perps who might be THINKING of committing a traffic offense.
I am sorry but you do not have a correct understanding of depraved indifference. To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant’s conduct must be ‘so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime. Depraved indifference focuses on the risk created by the defendant’s conduct, not the injuries actually resulting. When a person conducts themselves withing the limits of their skills and abilities, just as any other person would reasonably do, then they are NOT acting with depraved indifference. For example, should a normal citizen come upon the same individual in distress, and all they did was turn the guy on his side and call 911 to get the paramedics to the location, they would not be guilty of depraved indifference.
The police officers had the perp on his side and when they determined him to be in distress, they call for medical personnel. The police are NOT required to have medical personnel at the location prior to making the arrest. The placing the individual on their side is the best position for someone in distress as placing them on their stomach (esp large individuals) restricts breathing and having them sit up creates the risk of fall injury (head trauma) and lastly, having them lay on their back creates the risk of choking. Further, if the article is correct about a coronary, the required resuscitation equipment is with the paramedics. In that case, there was and would be little that the police could do, absent paramedic training and equipment.
The courts have long held that there is no obligation to render medical aid, esp if you are not equipped or a licensed medical professional. You are however, obligated to call for medical professionals and that is what these officers did. Again, according to the article. Further, many police departments have specific policies limiting what aid can be rendered if their officers are not trained and licensed as paramedics as that exposes the department to lawsuits.
He was breathing.
He stopped breathing on the way to the hospital, after going into cardiac arrest en route.
taxcontrol did a good job of correcting the errors in your analysis and your lack of understanding regarding obligations and protocol.
I just wanted to also correct your (I'm sure completely unintentional) misstatement of fact.
Selling loose cigarettes? Oh, the humanity!
Shouldn’t even be illegal.
If so, at most a citation.
BS laws, BS enforcement officers.
Wow.
A cornerback?
He was doing something else because you just know it in your heart of hearts?
Strong evidence, not that it matters.
Wow?
You seem shocked.....
Why?
#1. Because they didn’t follow standard procedure?
#2. Because they got suspended?
#3. Or because the union obviously isn’t going to back their asses?
I’m going to go way out on a limb and pick number 3.
No, genius, because this takes a lot of the focus off of the cops—that is, it would if it were to be highlighted by the media as it should.
“No, genius, because this takes a lot of the focus off of the cops—that is, it would if it were to be highlighted by the media as it should.”
How did the guy end up in the ambulance in the first place?
now why would that be - maybe - he was dead on the sidewalk and everyone fibbed about him dying at the hospital as it would have largely exonerated the officers
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