Posted on 04/11/2016 7:33:38 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
+1
That's a lot of s*** since most polls show Trump doing well as a second choice even among Kasich supporters. Trump is even dominating the "very conservative" and moderate voters now in most states.
I’ll also add that even Wisconsin, brainwashed by 24/7 propaganda from Cruzers on the radio ranting about “Protectionism” and how you can’t deport illegals, had exit polls showing most voters want to see whoever has the most delegates win the nomination.
But I am not a believer that the person with the most delegates should automatically win. When you have a large field, that can actually distort the will of the voters. I am NOT saying this to make any kind of comparison between the candidates, but a certain eccentric German politician was elected Chancellor in German even though his party never got more than 37% in any election. He was unpopular with the majority of Germans, but they simply couldn't unite politically to stop him.
If there is a candidate who is very popular with a plurality, but very unpopular with a majority whose first preferences may be divided among other candidates, a "second choice" candidate among all those other candidates may in fact be the option that most reflects the will of the voters. That's theory, obviously, and I'm not saying that is true here (very open question as to whether a majority of GOP voters actually prefers Cruz to Trump in direct matchup). I'm simply pointing out why the rule isn't "plurality wins".
This election is completely screwed up because the membership of the party itself is so incredibly divided, the two leading candidates are both very unpopular with a substantial portion of the party, and there is no "second choice" guy who is acceptable to everyone.
So you concede then move on to a completely different topic? C'mon, people have better things to do than to get led down rabbit holes by a Cruz propagandist.
I don't believe we should determine elections by exit polls -- what matters is which lever you pulled, not what reasons some outside organization claims you told them after the fact. If a Wisconsin voter really wanted the guy with the most votes to win, then they should have voted for Trump, because any moderately informed voter knows that's going to be the case.
Everything else was entirely irrelevant, ignored everything I wrote, and then went to a different topic. Hence I only quoted the useful part.
I don't believe we should determine elections by exit polls
See how big of a big fat troll you are? Nobody even said that. You're just saying that because you want to troll me down to weird conversational topics that have nothing to do with the thread or anything even you originally brought up.
The election system is rigged by the uniparty to ensure no 3rd party will win regardless of the votes.
We can see the exact same anti-Trump talking points and lies in every slaved media of the 6 corps.
http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6
“It is not censoring political speech. Anyone is free to say whatever they want.”
That is pure nonsense. You have voters going to the precinct caucus who win the plurality or even the majority of votes and then have one or no delegates going to the county or legislative district convention to represent their earned vote. The GOPe favored delegates then proceed to use the numerical advantage gained at the precinct caucuses in defiance of the voters’ express votes to then vote to sideline any remaining few delegates at the county convention who could represent them at the state convention. The delegates sent to the national convention then represent a minority of the GOP voters who have manipulated the rules and procedures to deny the plurality or majority of the GOP voters the right to have their political speech, Presidential candidate, party rules, and policies represented at the deliberations in the national convention. As I said before, the abuses of the privilege is fairly comparable in many respects to similar abuses found in the totalitarian regimes such as the Soviet Union. Any political process which results in a minority of the electorate being able to use the rules to deny the majority or the plurality a fair and accurate proportion of representation in the election is inherently non-Republican, because such a process is not truly representative of the sovereign political body.
“Well, the problem is that Trump voters haven’t represented a “majority” of Republican voters this primary season. They represent a plurality.”
This is not necessarily just about Trump at all. Trump is simply just the latest example of the GOPe minority manipulating the process to deny the will of the plurality and the majority of the GOP. All of this denial and spin amounts to nothing more than an extremely foolish and ill advised attempt to deny the undeniable fact that an influential minority has been abusing their existing control of the GOP apparatus to retain their minority control of the political party at the disadvantage the majority of the party’s voters. It also remains to be seen whether or not the voters will be able to compel a majority of the delegates to vote for Trump despite the efforts of the GOPe and Ted Cruz to take away the delegate positions the pro-Trump voters earned with their votes or the votes they would have used had they been allowed to vote.
“The truth is that while everyone wants to blame “neverTrump” on “the elites” or “the GOP-E”, it wouldn’t have any power unless there were a lot of other rank and file Republican voters who absolutely detest Trump.”
That is simply not true. I watched as Newt Gingrich won the most votes in the caucus voting and then see him not be allotted any delegates to the county convention until I spoke up to volunteer on his behalf. I have had many other voters report similar circumstances in their caucuses. The delegates sent from the caucus to the county convention often do not fairly or even remotely represent the actual voting results for these presidential candidates.
“Those people are also “lifelong Republican voters”. My mom voted for Goldwater, and she has said there’s no way she’d vote for Trump. I know a lot of folks who feel the same, and they’re not “the elites”. They’re just ordinary people.”
They are also not the party officers who become automatic delegates and control the rules committees that shut out the representatives of the plurality or majority of the voters’ representatives.
“The reality is that the party isn’t just divided between “the elites” and “the masses”. The masses themselves are divided, and there’s really no way to fix that. A very large group of “lifelong Republican voters” are going to be very dissatisfied with the nominee no matter who it is.”
The sore loser excuse just does not fly. These voters know they are going to win some and lose some. Your comment is a prime example of the disrespect these life-long Republican voters are complaining about. Your attempt to misrepresent and trivialize their concerns and their witnessing of a minority disenfranchising the will of the plurality or the majority and denial of the unethical means being used to do so is alienating most of the members and would be members of the GOP. These current and former members of the GOP have already withheld their votes from the GOP to send a message to the GOP to clean up heir act and to stop with the denials, and here we are in the middle of yet another dangerously critical election with the GOPe and people like you making inane excuses for all of this unethical disrespect for the voters and the opposition delegates like a bunch of tone deaf grave robes whistling past the graveyard on the way to the next cemetery while pretending to remain innocent as the disgruntled customers trail behind with pitchforks and rolling pins in disgust for what has become of the GOP.
For the party establishment itself (as opposed to all the GOP elected officials in Congress who have their own opinions as well), that’s a huge problem that RNC really can’t resolve.”
That’s is utter nonsense. The GOPe can begin by simply ending the Diebold vote rigging, ending the party membership of people like Mitt Romney after he plots to throw the election to Hillary Clinton rather than allow Trump or some earlier Republican candidate to win the presidency, ending the business of permitting naturalized citizen candidates to pretend they are natural born citizen candidates, ending the practice of sending delegates who do not represent the candidates voted for by the voters in the precinct, and so much more. Simply stop making excuses for the reasons why you refuse to listen to the voters and respect the choices of the majority or the plurality of the voters. Failure to listen and respect those voter demands will otherwise result in the Republican Party going the same way as the Whig Party much sooner than most people have imagined could ever be possible.
“As an entity, the GOP is screwed either way.”
No, the Party officials are making bad choices and engaging in bad behavior that will soon result in the sudden collapse in GOP voters the likes of which has never been seen since the Whig Party expired.
By Valerie Richardson - The Washington Times - Friday, March 4, 2016
DENVER — The Colorado Republican Party declined to hold a presidential straw poll on Super Tuesday, so John Brackney decided to conduct one himself.
The result of his unofficial count is that Ted Cruz won Colorado with 38 percent of the caucus vote, followed by Marco Rubio with 30 percent and Donald Trump with 18 percent. Ben Carson was fourth with 8 percent, with John Kasich bringing up the rear with 6 percent.
If that's a violation of rights, it still isn't the violation of "free speech" you claimed.
Personally, while I do object to delegates not being bound on the first ballot, I have no probably with intra-party elections/politicking to select the delegates who can vote their conscience in subsequent ballots.
The fact is that Trump has been the "first choice" of only 37% of those who have voted in a GOP primary/caucus. If we want to represent accurately the desires of those who voted as a whole, the majority of delegates also should not be "Trump first" voters. They should actually represent -- as best as possible -- the full diversity of thought represented by the total ballots cast. That necessarily means electing delegates with free will (after the first ballot) to chose who they want as the field narrows.
The truth of that picture just struck me. They guide the process on the ‘Pub side to prevent us from doing anything about it!
“If that’s a violation of rights, it still isn’t the violation of “free speech” you claimed.”
You are using a false accusation, because I did not say “free speech” as you falsely quoted above. I said “political speech” in the context of the representatives of the voters being denied the opportunity to serve as delegates at the Republican Conventions and in their committees. It makes no difference why the voters representatives are being denied to have their positions represented in the party’s deliberations. Without fair representation these voters are being denied the privileges of their citizenship in the Republic.
“Personally, while I do object to delegates not being bound on the first ballot, I have no probably with intra-party elections/politicking to select the delegates who can vote their conscience in subsequent ballots.”
You are merely arguing about how the deck chairs are being arranged on the deck of a GOP ship that is sinking. The minority who have manipulated the rules to gain control and retain control of the party in opposition to the will of a plurality or majority of the members of the group causing the GOP to become abandoned by the disenfranchised members who constitute a greater number than the minority controlling the party offices.
“The fact is that Trump has been the “first choice” of only 37% of those who have voted in a GOP primary/caucus.”
That is a highly disingenuous comment. First, your percentage is in dispute. Second, even if your number were not in dispute, you deceptively omit the fact the less than a majroty percentage of 50 percent is the natural outcome of the GOP deliberately running 18 candidates in the primary election cycle for the specific purpose of ensuring no one candidate like Trump or Carson would be able to reach the 50 percent share of the primary vote. Before Trump even announced his candidacy in the election, the RNC was already preparing the rules to force a less than 51 percent majority to give them an opportunity to slip in a GOPe candidate of their choice at the Republican National Convention. In other words, this handful of RNC officers took it upon themselves the scheme to invalidate the decisions of millions of Republican voters to impose their own choice of GOPe candidate.
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