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Market Overbought: Echoes of 2008-09 Recession Loom as Traders Disregard Warning Signs
Citizen Watch Report ^

Posted on 12/15/2023 6:03:35 PM PST by davikkm

The stock market is currently experiencing its most overbought conditions since the early days of the pandemic, with traders displaying a fervent appetite for bullish options contracts. This surge in bullish sentiment is reminiscent of the situation leading up to the 2008-09 recession, raising concerns among seasoned analysts.

A striking comparison can be drawn between the current market state and the situation in December 2021, particularly in the context of "Min vol." Despite a similar move, this time it took half the duration as volatility rapidly collapsed. The prevailing sentiment suggests that, post-options expiration (OpEx), markets are poised to surge to new highs or, in a more ominous scenario, face a potential explosion.

(Excerpt) Read more at citizenwatchreport.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: 200809; market; recession; stockmarket
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1 posted on 12/15/2023 6:03:35 PM PST by davikkm
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To: davikkm

What do those traders know?


2 posted on 12/15/2023 6:06:04 PM PST by Fido969 (45 is Superman! )
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To: Fido969

“What do those traders know?”

The FED is all for inflation [and electing ‘Rats] in the run-up to Nov., 2024?


3 posted on 12/15/2023 6:08:40 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: davikkm

If you belive the market is ‘overbought,’ sell all your equities on Monday morning.

If not, stay in the market.


4 posted on 12/15/2023 6:12:40 PM PST by Round Earther
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To: davikkm

Money has always been made by time in the market not timing the market


5 posted on 12/15/2023 6:21:11 PM PST by 2nd Amendment
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To: Round Earther

> If you believe the market is ‘overbought,’ sell all your equities on Monday morning. <

There is an old saying. It’s easy to know when to get out of the market. Tough to know when to get back in.

As for me, I’m doing nothing. Except every year I try to rebalance a bit. Get a little older, get a little more conservative. Regardless of the market conditions.

But what do I know? Despite being available, no president has asked me to serve as Secretary of the Treasury, or anything like that.


6 posted on 12/15/2023 6:24:32 PM PST by Leaning Right (The steal is real.)
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To: Leaning Right

“As for me, I’m doing nothing. Except every year I try to rebalance a bit. Get a little older, get a little more conservative. Regardless of the market conditions.

Don’t panic, don’t get irrationally exuberant.

Stay the course.


7 posted on 12/15/2023 6:29:28 PM PST by Round Earther
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To: davikkm

bkmk


8 posted on 12/15/2023 6:30:10 PM PST by sauropod (The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly.)
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To: davikkm

This site is an unattributed blog.


9 posted on 12/15/2023 6:34:47 PM PST by stinkerpot65 (Global warming is a Marxist lie. )
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To: Leaning Right
Reminds me of Back to the Future when Marty tells 1955 Doc that Ronald Reagan is the president in 1984. An incredulous Doc quips: "Ronald Reagan? Who's the Secretary of the Treasury? Jack Benny?"
10 posted on 12/15/2023 6:37:26 PM PST by fhayek
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To: davikkm

DOW was at 37K at end of Trump administration. Market has been flat or worse since then. Ain’t buying’ this story.


11 posted on 12/15/2023 6:40:05 PM PST by Chauncey Gardiner (Vivamus stultus ignarus mori )
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To: davikkm
This may all be true but with J Powell signaling interest rate cuts going into the election year it looks like they will prop up the market and let the crap hit the fan after the election is over.

It will take time for inflation to fire up again as the interest rates come down. Not that I believe 3% is a valid target for inflation (it should have been lower). They just don't care. If Biden wins and they take back congress they will put the screws to the American people anyway. If President Trump wins they will ratchet up interest rates and crash the economy so they can gain more seats in the congress during the midterm elections by blaming Republicans for the lousy economy.

The bright spot is that if President Trump wins I believe his policies will thwart their efforts to kill the economy. But there will be some pain in 2025 regardless who wins.

As far as call options are concerned there are probably a lot of investors with money in short term interest accounts that are taking risk capital to make sure they don't miss out on some short term stock market upside.

DISCLAIMER: not financial advice just one man's opinion

12 posted on 12/15/2023 6:54:25 PM PST by stig
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To: davikkm

The market is very, very bubbly here, but anyone with market experience will tell you that you can NOT be bearish during Thanksgiving > Xmas. You just can’t. Should you decide to be bearish, you will spend Xmas writhing in a fetal position on the floor while everyone else is having a good time. It does not matter how high things are right now, you can’t bet that they’ll fall in this time period. I’ve seen this every year for at at least 20 years.

I’m having trouble finding anything where I perceive value, or even much upside, but that’s because the market has staged a MASSIVE rally since October. The market as in SPY is up nearly 15% since Oct 27/Nov 01. It’s been a strong year the last month and a half.


13 posted on 12/15/2023 7:51:46 PM PST by Attention Surplus Disorder (The Democrat breadlines will be gluten-free. )
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To: davikkm

Moronic headline. But the website name has an altruistic ring.
For every buyer there is a seller on other side of transaction.


14 posted on 12/15/2023 9:58:53 PM PST by Honest Nigerian
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To: Chauncey Gardiner

With Trump there was a reason for rising stocks.


15 posted on 12/15/2023 11:17:40 PM PST by JohnnyP (Thinking is hard work (I stole that from Rush).)
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: stig

“This may all be true but with J Powell signaling interest rate cuts going into the election year it looks like they will prop up the market and let the crap hit the fan after the election is over.”


I’m not so sure that the Feds are signaling the number and level of interest rate cuts that the media is pretending. Wall Street has been yelling “pivot” ever since the first rate hike. The media cherry picks a couple of phrases from fed officials and takes them out of context to convince investors that rate cuts will happen early next year.


17 posted on 12/16/2023 12:45:16 AM PST by CFW (I will not comply!)
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To: stig

The problem with that thinking is rate cuts happen when things are bad, not when things are good. Which means things need to break or we go to war (not the proxy kind).

They have been propping things up all year with the reverse repo window. That stash of cash is just about exhausted from what I have seen. What magic mechanism will they have next to prop up the market and the banks?

The market exuberance over rate cuts and easy money should be concerning. Rate cuts happen to spur growth, at least that is how things used to work.

The economy continues to fail to look bad. Low unemployment, labor force participation is up, consumers are still spending (although drawback on luxury spending).

Flipside is people are working 2-3 jobs to pay their core bills. Credit cards are maxing out. 60% are living paycheck to paycheck.

Is it bad enough to justify cutting rates as consumers compete against inflation? Historically rate cuts happen after things get bad, looking at the core fundamentals there is no reason to justify rate cuts. It disgusts me to see the greedy market being exuberant about rate cuts, because that means things are going to get bad and this exuberance is just a melt up of the market.

The question is ...what is bad going to look like this time? I suggest watching the Reverse Repo Window to find out. If the banks are not stabilized by the time the funds in the Repo Window run out, likely around Feb 2024, what happens next? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RRPONTSYD


18 posted on 12/16/2023 1:10:16 AM PST by EBH (America Blackmailed, The True Story of the World War...Coming Soon (1/21-))
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To: stig

Don’t assume that interest rates reversely affect the market. Rates are higher than they’ve been for over a decade, and the market is at an all-time high.

When the price of everything goes up due to inflation, that includes stock prices.


19 posted on 12/16/2023 4:08:56 AM PST by Fido969 (45 is Superman! )
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To: EBH

Why all the hysterics about reverse repos? It baffles me. That’s extra cash held by banks. It’s a huge private surplus of cash. If reverse repos go down, the cash has to go somewhere.


20 posted on 12/16/2023 4:11:13 AM PST by Fido969 (45 is Superman! )
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