Carry and Ammunition Suggestions for Condition Orange (Freeper Suggestions-Vanity)

The Usual Suspects ^ | 12/21/2003 | Section9

[meyer]

OTOH, I think Eaker is brilliant to have the same Glock .40s stashed all over, with all family members equally trained up on them, and mags and ammo interchangeable like crazy if TSHTF.

And that's why my .40 is my primary carry weapon. I'm at my best with it, its equipped with night sights and several mags, and I can hit well at 25 yards. I just pulled the .38 revolver out of the safe as a backup, only because I am preparing to travel on Thursday and under this Orange alert, I want something different and reliable to carry. I was thinking .44 mag for a while, but I didn't have the right kind of ammo to carry it. The .38 is a reasonable backup.

[Eaker]

Make sure you keep that Glock in a holster,

It is except when cleaning or shooting. It is in a holster that has an internal retention system, so not straps. Unlike a cop, I won't need to reholster fast to continue the fight. When I reholster the fight will be over.

and DON'T "Mexican carry" it in your pants.

If I ever found a reason to "Mexican carry" it would be without a round in the pipe. I cannot imagine a scenario in which my pants rack the slide and then pull the trigger.

And be REAL careful holstering it...

The weapon is always safed before I holster it. Even if it wasn't, training and proper equipment keep this from being a problem.

I don't mean to sound caviler, but I know my weapon systems inside and out. That is why I carry one type of pistol, one type of shotgun and one type of rifle.

PS: I am going to need to order two more books as I offered one to fellow FReeper Allegra to take to Iraq with her as she leaves in a week or so to perform troop support via a "big company" in country.

[Eaker]

EAKER..........you can blow em up and rebuild em with this one !!!

You can trust me to do one of these things and rebuilding em ain't where smart money is going!!!

[tracer]

The H & K .45 cal. USP is a wise choide.

But, as I have said before, don'thang around waiting for the Leos to hang a hero's medal around your neck.

Practice well in advance live-fire situations and learn to contro your adrenaline.

Fire sparingly from cover and you accomplish three things: you stay intact, enjoy the advantage of the element of surprise, and are less likely to be ID'd by a do-gooder soccer mon with a guilt-based "social conscience." You then slip away and remeber Bernie getz -- don't be that guy. Consider setting aside the "conventional wisdom" and aim to incapacitate in as "humiliating" a manner as possible, for "humiliation" is what the anatics really are all about....

[Blue Collar Christian]

Alright, I'm taking my Ted Williams 20 ga. with adjustable choke out tomorrow and see if I can hit a pattern board at 100 yards well enough to make a good pellet count. Let's see, 3 in. shell with what weight and size shot?

When I lick my thumb and touch the bead it will be like Sgt. York!

[Blue Collar Christian]

I almost wish those Glocks didn't shoot so well, cause they sure are about butt ugly. I love the model 22.

[Southack]

I love these threads!

First of all, the sheer presence in America of over 70 Million gun owners gives civilians some decent measure of self-protection. Sure, *I* may not be the one to stop a terrorist, but I'm just one of over 70 Million. Roughly 1 American civilian in 4 is already armed, so we gun owners are already doing our part.

But sadly, the global culture war may require us to do more.

It is not out of the question that terrorists start hitting U.S. hospitals, schools, buses, churches, sports events, international "name" franchises such as McDonalds, and even police headquarters with suicide bombers.

We've seen what they've done in Israel, so we might as well consider that they could replicate those sorts of attacks here.

That being said, I'd place carrying your cell phone, especially picture phones, high up on my personal anti-terror list. Your picture might very well capture a clue or key that leads to the arrest of entire terror cells. Most suicide bombers run with a "handler" who typically is nearby but yet doesn't get close enough to the suicide detonation to be wounded. A photo of the handler before he orders the suicider to activate would have wide-reaching intel value.

For those of us packing heat, we *might* be able to stop such a suicide terrorist. Israeli civilians foil 80% of those terror attacks that are somehow thwarted, and Americans could easily reach this level of success here. But the number of attacks that are thwarted will always be less than the total number of terror attacks.

So if you haven't taken a picture or called 911 or shot one of the terrorists, at least you can help out in the aftermath. For one thing, don't be part of the problem. Take care of yourself and those with you. Don't drain resources that are needed by those less prepared and/or less fortunate to survive the initial attack unscathed.

Be calm and *project* your calmness. Do not add to the panic. This is not about "excitement." This is not about raising everyone's adrenaline level. Deliberately be mundane. "Oh, an attack. OK, I'm going to start talking to the wounded to see who I can help, who needs rapid care, and who needs to be moved, if anyone."

Don't get in the way of Authorities. This is not about you "getting information" or griping to Officials. When the pros show up to aid the wounded, sit still and remain out of their way. Speak when spoken to, don't distract them needlessly. If you find yourself full of "questions", trigger that little bell in your head that says "Hey, I'm nervous and need reassurance." Then give yourself that reassurance and let the pros help those who haven't calmed themselves down yet.

If Authorities do not show up for some length of time, be sure that you have been doing basics such as getting water for the wounded, patching obvious bleeding, dialing 911 but *NOT* tying up cell phone radio circuits with needless chatter to your friends and relatives back home, etc.

In some early terror attacks such as the one at the Rome airport, the initial bomb blasts were followed by terrorists rushing around shooting civilians. For the most part, you want to see but not be seen in such an environment. Do not attempt to become Rambo. If you are unarmed and caught in the open, cut yourself, smear the blood in an obvious location, and play dead.

If you are armed, do *NOT* engage in an open firefight. Shoot when you will least likely be seen and most likely get a hit with a single shot. As a civilian, you are more likely to disrupt a terrorist firefight by not being seen, yet still delivering shots to them. The longer that you survive without them knowing, as a collective group, where you are firing from, the more likely that their training will break down. With this in mind, do *NOT* move away from cover. At all. Do NOT go hunting for them. Time is on your side, as the Authorities *will* eventually arrive, and the terrorists know that fact. Shooters are far less likely to want to die for Allah, too. There is a reason that they are "shooters" instead of suicide bombers. That will to live on their part will be wearing on their training. Thus, the longer you last and are able to deliver occasional shots, the more likely you are to break their entire attack (even though you aren't going to kill them all by being this patient).

Again, don't play Rambo. Do not leave cover. Do not hunt them down. You are winning by staying alive and leaving "doubt" in their minds about *where* your fire is originating. If they have to regroup to think about *you*, then their original terror objective will have become *secondary*, and once off their original game plan they are far less likely to be effective.

[demsux]

Great...just what I was looking for...I appreciate the info.

[wardaddy]

I would agree anything one can kill well with and is accustomed to.

I know bowhunters I would not want within 50 yards of my trail in light wind.

I have a neighbor....an eccentric neurologist (are there any other kind..lol) who hunts squirrels long bow....not recurve...an osage longbow. I have seen him hit pie plates all day long at 40 yards.

Me....I prefer a 1911 or high caliber wheelgun at reach and any decent black gun or even a universal caliber hunting rifle on the back seat or in the rack. It depends on where you live I would suppose. In the city, 5.56 or 7.62 Russian are great.....out in Squantos land I'd prefer a bit more down range punch and since my vehicle is toting ammo...ammo weight is not the same concern it might be in the A-Shau valley tromping about.

For sporting calibers, I prefer the 30-06 cause I was born with one in my hands.

For strategic offensive stuff, one could hardly go wrong with a .338 Lapua TRG-1(?)...Sako


I could go on and on.....I am quite fond of Weatherby Bolt Action in 300 weatherby mag but again cause I'm used to them.

Same for .270s or even my fav 20....the .220 Swift

This is like a which superhero is the baddest thread.

My favorite firearm has always been the one I could grab first as these things have never been planned in my world.

[Uncle Jaque]

I rather suspect that IF there are any shoot-'em-up kind of attacks, they will be targeted at convenient "Kill Zones" like schools or workplaces where the carrying of arms by the sheeple is verbotten.

Why be stupid and attack someplace where the victims are apt to resist?

I don't think that they are quite that dumb... although sometimes, like with that "Shoe-bomber" moron, we've gotta wonder!

I rather doubt, however, that we'll be seeing much gunplay on the part of the Jihaddists, if they stay true to form.
It would be more like the Islammakazi human bombs or vehicle bombs in high population density targets, such as shopping malls or sports events.

If they had any significant WMD I think they would have popped them on us by now.

The one scenario where it might come in handy to be armed, is if one were to observe a vanload of rags unlimbering a shoulder-fired ground-to-air missle near an Airport in an attempt to take down an airliner. We live near a US Navy Air Station, and shortly after 9/11 were dining at a drive-in near the end of the runway, and I was eying some of the out-of-state vans parked there suspiciously, and rather glad for the angular old M-1911-A1 digging into my ribs under my vest.

If you ever came accross such an attack in progress, there would be no time to drop a dime to the local Gendarmes;
Options would be run away and hide or engage the ememy.
I would expect that they would have lookouts posted with AKs etc., so there may well be an element of sacrifice in choosing the latter option.

Using a vehicle as a weapon in such instances might be a tactical option, too; why shoot it out with the scum when you can run them over with your pickup truck?

The thing that keeps America free from thugs like this is not just our guns - it's our bloody ATTITUDE!

Neither Secretary RIDGE or any of the government authorities seem at all supporive of Citizens actually resisting terrorists, beyond calling the government to come save us.
They obviously don't want a lot of armed, disorganized vigalantes running around, leaving the LEOs to sort out good guy from bad guy in the melee.

I can relate with that to a certain point, I suppose.

In gulags like Maryland or Kalifornica, don't expect any mercy if caught under arms, orange alert or no alert.
As far as Kommie politicians are concerned, ANY armed American is a bigger threat (at least to THEM and their POWER) than any Jihaddi terrorist!

As at any time; Self and Civil defense is about common sense, self discipline, sobriety, and 360-degree tactical awareness at all times being every bit as critical as what sort of iron you pack.

[Uncle Jaque]

Like the Hell's Angel's Road Captain said:

"Dont carry nuthin' ya don't know how to USE!"

Please - get competent instruction, read Masaad AYOOB's "In the Gravest Extreme" (Lethal Forces Institute) and PRACTICE!

[ExSoldier]

..."the first arriving police are likely to shoot you if they see you holding a weapon, before they sort out who's who."

That's a chilling thought. My thought is that unless they're already on top of the event, they'll fall all over themselves assessing a'la Colombine before they can do any good. With the exception of the special response teams (even then it's "iffy") cops aren't trained to engage and destroy. Remember the four "F" credo? Find 'em Fix 'em Fight 'em and Finish 'em!

I wonder if, since 9-11, cops are at all trained to remember if they live in a shall issue RTC state? I would hope that training takes into effect what impact lawfully armed citizens may have on a domestic terror attack involving armed suspects instead of an airline attack.

I just sent a letter to the Miami Herald asking this question. I was just published recently so I don't expect them to print this, but maybe some reporter will ask the question.

[Uncle Jaque]

You, sir, have fine taste in handgun cartridges!

The venerable old .44 Special has been my all-time favorite for years!

Inherintly accurate, with all the punch you'll ever need out of a hip pocket and then some.
A cinch to reload for.

Gotta love it!

[Squantos]

Haven't seen the TRG . 338 lapua mag is a very fine caliber for bucking mirage and wind at extream range. Coyotes hate it here in the Panhandle. My 338 lapua Mag is a Dakota longbow . My ex girl friday bought it for me back when they were affordable....the gun not the girl friday.....I kept the gun being the SOB I am if you were wondering............:o)

Stay Safe !

[Oorang]

So this thread is for practical suggestions for carry and concealment, choice of firearms and ammunition in a low intensity warfare environment

Why, a Barrett 50, of course.

[Uncle Jaque]

Oh, yessah! Old Slabsides the .45 may not be politically correct or fashionable, but has been getting the job done for nigh on 90 years now, and is quite capable of driving on into the next Century!

The 9mm Parabellum made an excellent murdering round for the Nazis to pop Jews with at point blank range behind the right ear, but in a stand-up gunfight the old .45 ACP in the hands of a man who could use it was a force to be reckoned with.

Still is.

Any "Soldier" who is too effeminite or limp-wristed to handle a real .45 or .30 caliber rifle needs to be kept safely in the rear behind a typewriter or a bedpan, in this Old Soldier's humble opinion.

[Squantos]

You have a good holiday season Uncle Jaque.........and Stay safe !

[section9]

Thanks, Southack. That was a reasoned, superb rundown on the kind of tactical situation a civilian is likely to run into in this country.

In the United States, suicide bombers are likely to be "spectaculars", conducted where a lot of people gather for a televised "event", such as a Super Bowl or New Year's Eve in Time's Square. There simply isn't the number of willing shahid to fill the ranks of the suicide bombers that exist in Israel and Palestine. There are literally hundreds of thousands of disgruntled young men living cheek by jowl with the Jews. Add to that population the mix of readily available armaments and explosive, a friendly governmental authority (Arafat and his gang), and an established network of Israeli Arabs who are sympathetic to the cause, and you can see why Israel has the problems it does.

I am not saying we are less vulnerable. I am saying a suicide bombing campaign, as opposed to a single event, would have logistical and operational security problems that would mitigate against a campaign's success. Single events that kill lots of people would make bigger news and increase the stature of, and the cash flow to, Al Qaeda in the Arab world. Saddam's "humiliation" almost begs for some sort of retaliation by Robert Fisk's friends.

I have also considered that the jihadi may try infantry style assaults on high-value targets (such as Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas or, say, the New York Stock Exchange). Finally, there is the "Stinger" threat that seems to be all the rage right about now.

Personally, I think AQ wants to do new attacks here because of the prestige value of attacks in the terrorist community. My entire reason for starting this thread anticpates that at some time in the futue, AQ will want to make itself felt here in America. I remain convinced that in the end, if all else fails to stop them, our ace in the hole is the armed citizen.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[section9]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. My weapon of choice (on my birthday list....)

The Kimber Custom .45 Custom II. Just a sweet thing to look at.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[Blue Collar Christian]

Put a bow on it! You're gonna love it.