Grandmother Sues Game Maker Over Hidden Sex in 'Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas'

AP ^ | AP-ES-07-27-05 1355EDT

[KC_Conspirator]

Yes, when doing flight school, do it in first person view mode for airplanes. It makes it easier. It does not work as well for helicopters though. Do you think Mike Toreno is a Republican?

I just got to shop at Didier Sachs, which opens up after you go back to Los Santos, so I am dressed pretty nice. I still have a pink mohawk. I am near the end of the game.

[NathanR]

Because it was not rated on the hidden content PLACED IN THE GAME BY THE MANUFACTURER. It was rated M because they lied about what was in the game.

Correct me, if I am wrong, but I thought that the "adult" content was added on later as a downloadable plugin or module, not placed in the game by the manufacturer.

[TheOtherOne]

Correct me, if I am wrong, but I thought that the "adult" content was added on later as a downloadable plugin or module, not placed in the game by the manufacturer.

At first, that is what the company said. It has since admitted they put the content it the game. The plugin or module merely allowed the hidden content to be seen, but it was programmed and placed there by the company.

[Dinsdale]

Any advice on completing the flight school?

The P-51 much more stable with the gear down. You have to pull it up to complete the circle and return, then lower it well before your approach to make the plane easyier to handle prior to landing. Any particular part of flight school giving you trouble?

For the NOE mission fly over the ocean the ocean as much of the way as you can (down the west coast of SanFiero not over it).

Other then that practice practice practice. When you get all 100% on flight school you get the Apachee at your air base. That was a pain, but then you've got 'brown thunder' to go vigalantee in, worth it.

Does anybody know if you can find an unlocked combine outside the harvest mission? I want to use it to harvest some Elvi or perhaps some golfers (for those that have'nt played when you run someone over in the combine you see bloody parts shooting out the back).

[threeleftsmakearight]

I'm not making her the issue, that's already been done by her media friends...it's as if she owns this issue, no one else has been all over the news regarding this story.

As for the border issue, a million Republicans have spoken up about this issue, only when she speaks of it does it become news.

If you allow yourself to be run over by the Clinton train, don't be surprised on election night '08, they're referring to her as President-elect...of course maybe you prefer that outcome.

[TheOtherOne]

If you allow yourself to be run over by the Clinton train, don't be surprised on election night '08, they're referring to her as President-elect...of course maybe you prefer that outcome.

Let me know what other issues I can't support.

As for that last part, I think you are projecting.

[Dimensio]

I guess you would have no problem going to and R rated movie and finding hard core porn on the screen?

Not an appropriate analogy, as the "adult" content was not something players could normally experience, and in fact required extensive programming knowledge to be unlocked. It wasn't even a "secret code", it was content that -- with the default game code -- could never be seen by any players. Chances are the programmers snuck it in (possibly to implement it, but then decided against it) and the publisher never even knew of it.

A more appropriate analogy would be purchasing an R-rated movie on DVD and discovering that there is a "pornographic" (involving a man in underwear dry-humping a naked woman, which IMO is borderline since there would be no penetration) that can only be accessed by putting the DVD movie in your computer and running a third party software application that unencrypts a hidden file.

What is really pathetic about this lawsuit is that the game was purchased in late 2004, meaning that it is the Playstation 2 version of the game. The "Hot Coffee" scene does exist in this version, however it is extremely difficult to even obtain the equipment required to unlock the taboo content, and it is highly unlikely that her son was in any position to actually see it.

[Dimensio]

The company comitted a fraud.

Fraud requires foreknowledge. If the publisher (who I believe is the one that submits the game to the ESRB) was unaware of the content, then there was no fraud on their part. It could even be argued that the programmers weren't expecting the hidden content to ever be revealed and that they expect that ESRB ratings are based upon game content only normally accessable to the player, not accessable through third-party hacks (since there is absolutely no way to see any of the "Hot Coffee" content without directly hacking the game).

[Publius6961]

Gasp! You mean she bought her grandkid a game where you steal cars and shoot at people, not knowing there might be a sex scene in there to corrupt his morals? Outrageous!

LOL!
For some reason, when I read that I immediately thought of the "grandmotherly" mass murderer here in the Sacrament California area from 30 years back or so...

[NathanR]

Thanks.

The grandmother is an idiot or incompetent, or both. The game was already rated M 17+, which is not that different from NC17.

I have as many issues with the "Grand Theft Auto" part of the game as with the sex. Both seem to be way too realistic, from what I have seen on television.

[Welsh Rabbit]

Do you think Mike Toreno is a Republican?

LOL! Well, I don't see him voting for Kerry...

[Publius6961]

How did the 85-year-old grandma figure out how to hack the game?

I'm not confident I could do it and I'm not technophobic...

[TheOtherOne]

I agree it is not as if they put an AO game in a M box. It is more sophisticated than that.

And I am not sure of the companies knowledge of when they knew. I do know that they lied and said it was not in their game but came from outside sources, when, in fact, it was in their content.

I don't think hiding the content absolves them of responsibility, and I don't think they can claim ignorance as an excuse. The game rating system is based on voluntary compliance by the game companies. If they have no obligation to know their own games it is meaningless. As I said earlier post, I don't think this lady deserves a cent, other than a refund if she wants to return it. I do think the company, if it knowingly falsely advertised this game, should not profit from that fraud.

[Welsh Rabbit]

Any particular part of flight school giving you trouble?

Not really. I just need to practice. Unfortunately, my disk has an error and started crapping out during the fourth flight school test three weeks ago. I wrote Rockstar. Whether they give me a new one, or I get one myself, now I'm severely out of practice...

[Publius6961]

It was rated M because they lied about what was in the game.

Didn't we go through this recently?
What "lying" is and what it's not?

Someone is saying that everyone who cares at the advertising and distribution ends of the process knew what was in the game and neglected to do anything about it.

That's a reach.

Remember, the no-no is accessible only after some extraordinary effort.
As in "not normal" use.

[threeleftsmakearight]

You can support what ever issues you want, but when about the year 2011, you wake up in Sweden West, don't come crying to me.

[Publius6961]

What game are you guys talking about?

[Dimensio]

I do know that they lied and said it was not in their game but came from outside sources, when, in fact, it was in their content.

They really screwed up the PR on that one. It's possible that whoever made the statement believed it, but they should have at least done a little research on the matter.

I don't think hiding the content absolves them of responsibility, and I don't think they can claim ignorance as an excuse.

Except that many games have "hidden" content buried in the code, never intended for public viewing, because in many cases it's just too complicated to dump it all. Sometimes it's a consequence of sloppying coding (where you don't want to lose track of your pointers or something), other times you may simply forget about the content that you're not using anymore. Countless games are rife with "hidden" content, intended for full release but scrapped when development time ran out (Knights of the Old Republic II is rife with this kind of thing) or early "draft" concepts that were eventually usurped when the designers decided to go in a different direction (Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver has a lot of audio files from conversations that never take place in-game). Is a developer expected, after sweating to make it to deadline, to comb back through several million lines of code to pore over content that may have been omitted but still included in the game code to insure that it doensn't run afoul of ESRB standards? Is a publisher -- who may not employ any programming staff at all -- to be expected to hire an outside consulting firm for every title that comes through it just to make sure there are no naughty words hidden in data files that consumers are never expected to view?

The game rating system is based on voluntary compliance by the game companies

Yes, it is. But some would argue that it isn't fair to rate a game based upon content that is never accessed.

(I do want to add that raving lunatic Jack Thompson actually wants to take this further and blame game companies for content that they didn't add. GTA:SA doesn't apply because Hot Coffee was their own creation, but he's lately gotten livid about The Sims 2 because someone released a mod that removes the 'pixelization' of nude characters. Exposing his abysmal ignorance, he claimed that it allowed viewing the genitalia of the characters, even the children; when EA responded by pointing out that the characters are as anatomically correct as Ken dolls, he said that it didn't matter and that they had a responsibility to stop these mods).

As I said earlier post, I don't think this lady deserves a cent, other than a refund if she wants to return it. I do think the company, if it knowingly falsely advertised this game, should not profit from that fraud.

IIRC, Rockstar/Take-Two are offering refunds to anyone who wants.

[TheOtherOne]

You can support what ever issues you want, but when about the year 2011, you wake up in Sweden West, don't come crying to me.

That's funny. I have been posting what I wanted (regardless of Hillary's position) here since 1998 and we have had Republicans win the Presidency two times and take over the Congress. Hmm, maybe you need to rethink your theory.

[KC_Conspirator]

Well, I know James Woods is a Republican and he did the voice for Toreno. So I could not help but think he was a Republican the whole game.

A great place for hints and walkthrough is gamefaqs.com.