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Guilty Plea, But No Prison (Debra Lafave)
TBO.com ^ | Published: Nov 22, 2005 | CHRIS CHMURA

Posted on 11/22/2005 11:59:01 AM PST by Nachum

TAMPA - Before she could plead not guilty by reason of insanity to charges she committed lewd or lascivious battery on a teenager, Debra Lafave pleaded guilty.

But, she will not go to prison.

The former Greco Middle School teacher, accused of having sex with a 14-year-old boy, came to a plea agreement with prosecutors Tuesday.

As part of the agreement, Lafave, 25, will serve three years community control (house arrest), and seven years probation.

The judge said Lafave could have been sentenced to decades in state prison.

"I accept full responsibility for my actions," Lafave told the court.

Prosecutor Mike Sinacore said the victim's family wanted the case to come to a rapid resolution because of intense attention in the news media.

Although Debra Lafave's plea agreement is generous, her life will change dramatically.

She will be classified as a sexual offender, and must register in the state's law enforcement database. The Florida Department of Education Department will revoke her teaching certificate.

According to police records, Lafave performed oral sex on the unnamed boy June 3, 2004. Eleven days later Lafave had sexual intercourse with the boy in a portable classroom at Greco Middle School, police reports said.

School district spokeswoman Linda Cobbe said Lafave was not teaching summer school and does not know why she was on campus the day of the incident.

Lafave was arrested June 21, 2004.

Her trial was scheduled to begin Dec. 5.

Lafave's attorney, John Fitzgibbons, had suggested his client would plead not guilty by reason of insanity.

Previously, Fitzgibbons told news reporters Debra Lafave was, essentially, too pretty for prison.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: but; debralafave; guilty; no; plea; prison
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1 posted on 11/22/2005 11:59:06 AM PST by Nachum
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To: Nachum

This "lady" got off lucky.


2 posted on 11/22/2005 12:00:15 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: Nachum
Nearly the exact same decision in the (Albany, NY) Geisel case.
3 posted on 11/22/2005 12:01:47 PM PST by xcamel (a system poltergeist stole it.)
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To: Nachum

if only, when I was 14........


4 posted on 11/22/2005 12:04:18 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: Nachum
Teacher's Pet
I Wanna Be Teacher's Pet
I Wanna Be Huddled And Cuddled As Close To You As I Can Get

Teacher's Pride
I Wanna Be Teacher's Pride
I Wanna Be Dated Graded The One Most Likely At Your Side

I Wanna Learn All Your Lips Can Teach Me
One Kiss Will Do At The Start
I’m Sure With A Little Homework
I'll Ride My Way To Your Heart

Teacher's Pet
I Wanna Be Teacher's Pet
I Wanna Take Homm-a Deploma
And Show 'Em That You Love Me Too
So I Can Be Teacher's Pet
Long After School Is Through

5 posted on 11/22/2005 12:05:00 PM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: clee1

Switch the roles. If this were a male teacher who had sex with a 14 year old girl would the outcome be the same?

If so, then what good are laws?


6 posted on 11/22/2005 12:05:13 PM PST by MA North Shore
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To: Nachum

There's a certain type of girl you marry, and there's a certain type of girl you don't.  To bad her husband found out too late.

Owl_Eagle

(If what I just wrote makes you sad or angry,

 it was probably sarcasm)

7 posted on 11/22/2005 12:05:44 PM PST by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my Dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: MA North Shore

The outcome wouldn't be the same and shouldn't.

There is a widely accepted public policy position that female sexuality should be guarded more closely than male sexuality.

That this public policy position is not shared by everyone doesn't undermine that it has been shared by most people as far back as anybody can remember.

Those who say that this is a double standard are wrong: a double standard is two different standards for the same thing. This is two different standards for two different things.


8 posted on 11/22/2005 12:11:05 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: Nachum

I have to revise my sarcastic post. Upon further thought, if I'd have had sex with a 14 year old girl I'd be doing 25 years right now.


9 posted on 11/22/2005 12:13:30 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: HitmanNY

I respect your point, but you leave out the issue that this woman was in a position of authority which she abused. That negates any special treatment of 'protection of female sexuality' as far as I can see it. Just because I have a wee-wee and she doesn't, means men should be discriminated against in these matters?


10 posted on 11/22/2005 12:16:56 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: Owl_Eagle

......and a certain type that you google the heck out of.


11 posted on 11/22/2005 12:16:56 PM PST by freedomson (Tagline comment removed by moderator)
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To: HitmanNY

A very good point. I guess in my opinion laws should be viewed as absolutes. If statutory rape, say under 16, by an adult is against the law, the law should be for both male and female. Seems to be every week we hear about another union teacher "getting 0ff" with a slap on the wrist.

I'd put her away for at least ten years, but maybe that's just my misogyny showing through...

NOW, NAG, and other lesbian groups must be happy that another one of their sisters doesn't need to follow the laws...


12 posted on 11/22/2005 12:24:06 PM PST by MA North Shore
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To: InsureAmerica
I must not have made myself clear, I'm sorry. The argument I presented doesn't negate anything:

The adult male who has sex with a 14 year-old girl both abused his authority and raped the girl.

The adult female who has sex with a 14 year old boy abused her authority and maybe some kind of assault.

They clearly both abused their power - that has to do with their role as teachers, now whether they are male or female. I have no idea what was confusing or ambiguous about that, and I don't disagree. I just don't think a female violating a male's sexuality in this context is rape, comparable to a male violating a female's sexuality in this context.

It's not unfair discrimination: the public policy concerns are different. Males just have different responsibilities because of the public policy reasons I mentioned.. That's not to say females have no responsibility, of course.
13 posted on 11/22/2005 12:28:15 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: InsureAmerica
...and, as in the twink European Union, it's considered a misdemeanor if a woman commits murder while she's on the rag with PMS.

This is true.

How about: "Yes, your Honor. I killed her, but I had this wicked sore male itch that Cruex couldn't help..."
14 posted on 11/22/2005 12:31:12 PM PST by MA North Shore
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To: MA North Shore
I can understand that. Certainly adults in this situation abuse their positions of authority and that should be dealt with equally.

Statutory rape is a good issue. We have to ask why the policy is in place in the first place. It's there to protect developing sexuality (among other things). I think most men (and probably most women) don't consider a 16 year old male's sexuality notably damaged in this context, though it certainly might be.

I'm not saying the women in these contexts isn't doing anything wrong. I am distinguishing it from rape, though.
15 posted on 11/22/2005 12:32:23 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: HitmanNY

If rape is defined as intercourse between two non-consenting parties, then does it matter what the threat or intimidation was to force the victim into the act?

If not, then there should not be a male/female difference.
I am not saying women and men should be treated the same in all matters, they should not. What if the woman raping the boy used blackmail or something similar to enforce the act, would that be different than a male raping a female using the same type of coercion, blackmail? Then we can leave out the physical differences that otherwise would play into a forced rape, where the male because of superior physical strenth needs no other means....


16 posted on 11/22/2005 12:34:37 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: HitmanNY

I asked my husband his opinion on this and he claims its not a double standard just the "male" standard.

He says that if our son had a chance to have sex with that good looking of a teacher at 14, He would be giving our son high fives!!!
on the other hand, if a good looking male teacher had sex with daughter at 14 he would, "kill the sonvabitch"
so see the double standard stand inside or outside of court.


17 posted on 11/22/2005 12:39:43 PM PST by ccwoman
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To: ccwoman

Funny, if this happened to my son, I'd do everything in my power to see that the C teacher never sees the light of day again!

DIFFERENT LAWS FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE? KARL AND JOSEF LOVES YOU!


18 posted on 11/22/2005 12:45:13 PM PST by MA North Shore
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To: InsureAmerica

I don't think anyone suggested the boy in this case didn't consent. Your emphasis on that detail in this case is misplaced.

Sex with a minor is statutory rape, however. Even the younger party's express consent isn't a defense, since there is a public policy decision that minors are incapable of meaningful consent.

In the example you give, the person would be guilty of blackmail on top of any sexual crime involved. Whether a person is male or female, they are still blackmailing - which may be illegal. That doesn't address the public policy concern I originally raised, though.


19 posted on 11/22/2005 12:50:58 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: MA North Shore

Not different laws for different people, but different laws for different situations. It clearly isn't a double standard, as I said. It's two different standards for two different things because, among other things, our culture decided to protect women's sexuality more than male's sexuality.

One reason, of course, is the different consequences of sex by the sexes. A woman bears a burden that a man doesn't bear: pregnancy.


20 posted on 11/22/2005 12:52:57 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: ccwoman

It's not a double standard (two standards for the same thing), but rather two different standards for two different things.


21 posted on 11/22/2005 12:54:01 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: HitmanNY

And, on the other hand, boys should be more rational towards their sexuality, lest girls lead them into trouble.

Study hard, get a nice car, make lots of money, and there'll be a line at your door for women wanting to marry-up, or at least for sex.


22 posted on 11/22/2005 12:59:38 PM PST by MA North Shore
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To: MA North Shore

No question I advocate males being more rational about their sexuality and everything else. Same for females. I'm with you.


23 posted on 11/22/2005 1:01:15 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: HitmanNY

If sex with a minor is statutory rape, then it is, because of a reason or reasons. I would imagine one of those reasons is that we all agree a minor cannot be responsible for certain decisions, therefore the fact that the boy may have 'consented' is irrelivent and my emphasis on that point is not misplaced, maybe misunderstood.

Yes, with a minor statutory rape, regardless of consent, the issue is the penalties for men vs women are different (or at least sometimes seem to be applied differently) even if the crimes are identical.

with all respect, I guess I've just never seen the public policy you continue to refer to anywhere, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, of course, but I do keep up on current events, politics and the like... The statutory rape issue is an example - are you saying that in this example there is a public policy that women and men will be punished differently? Is it codified into law somewhere?


24 posted on 11/22/2005 1:02:31 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: HitmanNY

""A woman bears a burden that a man doesn't bear: pregnancy"

Well, now you're opening up a whole new can of worms. Maybe stated better that a woman bears a burden that an irresponsible man doesn't bear. Of course I understand the physical demands of pregnancy but it goes both ways. Believe me I was physically demanded upon at the time. No need to take me to task re: woman physically carries child and relative the male has far less burden regading this. I understand...


25 posted on 11/22/2005 1:06:47 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: InsureAmerica
Consent isn't an issue in statutory rape - any emphasis on that is misplaced.

The public policy concern I refer to is the general concern that female sexuality is to be more protected than male sexuality. One reason, as I said, is that women bear a burden from sexual relations that men don't: pregnancy.

Another reason to value female sexuality more than male sexuality is that females are more necessary than males to create future generations. One man may be able to get dozens of women pregnant in a month, for example, and repeat that process the following month. Once a woman gets pregnant, she can't get pregnant again until after the child is brought to term 9 months later.

There are other reasons, I'm sure.

This isn't a matter of codification since laws reflect and advance public policy but don't codify the policies themselves.

In this case, since our culture values preserving female sexuality more than male sexuality, it punishes violations of female sexuality more harshly than violations of male sexuality. As I said several times already, that's not different punishment for the same thing, but different punishments for different things.
26 posted on 11/22/2005 1:10:16 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: InsureAmerica

The different burden women bear from sex (the possibility of pregnancy) is likely one of the public policy concerns in protecting female sexiality more than male sexuality.


27 posted on 11/22/2005 1:11:51 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: HitmanNY
This is two different standards for two different things.

You're right, but you'll never convince some people of that. This is nothing new in the course of history; it just gets more attention now...especially if the female is a hot blonde.

28 posted on 11/22/2005 1:18:30 PM PST by arasina (So there.)
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To: HitmanNY

So, would there be a distinction regarding oral sex, as no possibility of pregnancy there? In another post here a (female)teacher touched a boys penis 'through his pants'. I don't see any chance of a pregnancy there, so why the suspended sentence? Isn't the issue more (or as much as)what psychological damage is caused to the minor? If your public policy is valid, and with it you seem to focus exclusively on the 'burden of pregnancy' issue, then there should be a distinction when that burden is not a factor.
I understand your viewpoint, (for the most part).I just have a different one.



29 posted on 11/22/2005 1:20:57 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: arasina

Yep. This is a minefield created in modern times mostly by an effort to insist there are no practical differences between the sexes. Clearly there are differences, though raising them from time to time creates angst from all over the political landscape.

Keep on truckin!


30 posted on 11/22/2005 1:24:07 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: arasina

I'm convinced that the facts of each crime should be taken into consideration. When there is a distinction, and it is male/female focused, then fine. There is no way I get a pass on jailtime if I touch a minor female, regardless of the facts. (generally). And this is because I am a man. What other examples can we find of a 'class' of people who are discriminated against because of who they are, not what they do??


31 posted on 11/22/2005 1:25:25 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: InsureAmerica
I must not be making myself clear. I raised some public policy reasons for the general proposition that female sexuality must be guarded and protected more than male sexuality. that position is valid for numerous reasons.

It explicitly didn't present the pregnancy issues as the exclusive reason at all. If you reread the posts, I say there are other concerns. I have no idea what makes you think I exclusively rely on the pregnancy issue, when I explicitly state that is one factor and that there are others.

Emotional harm suffered is a different issue, and I don't defend that when it's part of the fact pattern. I also explicitly said that when an abuse of authority issue presents itself, it is an issue.

The public policy point you seem unable or unwilling to cope with is that our culture values the protection of female sexuality more than a male's. That you may have a different opinion is fine - most of the rest of us traditionally have seen and understood the difference.

If the culture and tradition is changing, that's fine. That's civilization for you! :-)
32 posted on 11/22/2005 1:30:26 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: HitmanNY
One reason, of course, is the different consequences of sex by the sexes. A woman bears a burden that a man doesn't bear: pregnancy.

Until not very long ago, you would have been absolutely right, and this is a reason our laws reflected this difference.

As we all know, however, our society has carefully eliminated any except minor differences in this regard. Most women, even many teenage girls, use contraceptives that prevent their becoming pregnant, and abortion is legal to quickly eliminate any pregnancy that occurs.

33 posted on 11/22/2005 1:31:38 PM PST by Restorer (Illegitimati non carborundum)
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To: HitmanNY

are there differences between blacks and whites? Asians and occidentals? Arabs and Swedes? If so, then following your premise, everyone should be treated differently? The law applied differently as a rule?

I certainly don't "insist" there are no differences between men and women. Absolutely quite the contrary. I don't open my car door for a man, but I do for my wife and daughter.


34 posted on 11/22/2005 1:32:19 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: Restorer
That's fine, but has nothing to do with the public policy concern that female sexuality is to be more protected than male sexuality.

It's a total non sequiter. That contraception is available doesn't undermine the value of protecting female sexuality at all.
35 posted on 11/22/2005 1:35:10 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: ccwoman

I see a lot of double standard. On some of these threads where some older guy raped a 14 yr old girl, some FReepers call for hanging, castration, and that's the nice ones.

Just because she's cute doesn't mean she can break the law. I saw her atty come out with her next to him, standing ever so quiet and trying to look innocent. Then she caught the eye of someone off camera and just SMILED the biggest smile I've ever seen.

I predict she will be making movies and pose in Playboy soon.


36 posted on 11/22/2005 1:35:38 PM PST by queenkathy (My idea of rebooting is kicking somebody in the butt twice)
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To: InsureAmerica

Most people confuse the definition of equality all the time, which is what you are adressing. Equality doesn't mean that you treat everyone the same way.

It means you treat similarly situated people similarly, and you can differently situated people differently.

I don't think you are mindful of the second component of equality. You have to be mindful of the public policy concerns to fully evaluate the situations.

For purposes of sexuality, regardless of race males and females are situated differently, so its fair to treat them differently.

Is this difficult to cope with?


37 posted on 11/22/2005 1:38:56 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: HitmanNY

I agree 100% that a woman's sexuality is treated and 'protected' differently and I am glad and I do not have issue with this.

My issue is really application of law and penalties on a case by case basis. It seems that ALL females who molest minors are given a pass while ALL males end up in the slam. I just can't believe the specifics of every case are identical. I do not even disagree that there exists what you refer to as public policy. Doesn't mean that I agree with it.

you state "most of the rest of us traditionally have seen and understood the difference."

Now you sound like a politician. (no disrespect, simply I had to comment on that one!. Who are 'most of the rest of us', is the question you beg)



38 posted on 11/22/2005 1:39:15 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: HitmanNY

"Is this difficult to cope with?"

The multitude of times I reference differences between males and females in the multitude of posts I made here should answer your question.....


39 posted on 11/22/2005 1:42:34 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: InsureAmerica

The rest of us is the members of the dominant culture in the USA for the last century or so. And yep, I am considering running for office in Nevada! ;-)

The reason that women who enjoy a sexual tryst with a young male are treated differently then males who enjoy a sexual tryst with a young female is because the dynamics of the situation are different, and most people don't consider it as damaging to the younger party, and to the social fabric.

They may in fact be wrong, but its the way they feel. I share the sentiment in most cases, I admit. I think most people do because there isn't a notably outcry about these.

That is, we encourage younger males to be sexual and discourage younger females to be sexual. And as I have said there are numerous reasons for this dynamic.


40 posted on 11/22/2005 1:44:54 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: HitmanNY

"Most people confuse the definition of equality all the time, which is what you are adressing"

Some people confuse rhetorical questions with actual political/ethical/moral beliefs,positions and convictions, especially when it appears to re-inforce an argument, which is what you are referencing. I understand the definition of equality. No need to explain, thanks..


41 posted on 11/22/2005 1:46:12 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: InsureAmerica

It didn't really. I think your emphasis is consistently misplaced in that it comes across as you seeking some equality of punishment, when there is a consensus (which you may or may not share) that there isn't a full equality of the dynamics of the two different situations.

Why should the punishment be equal (or comperable) when the violation is of a different nature? That's the question for me, and the answer is (to me, and to most) that it shouldn't be equal.


42 posted on 11/22/2005 1:47:09 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: InsureAmerica

It's not rhetorical, it's exactly on point.

If you understand it, why can't you see that the situations are different and therefore different responses can be fair?


43 posted on 11/22/2005 1:48:30 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: InsureAmerica

It's not rhetorical, it's exactly on point.

If you understand it, why can't you see that the situations are different and therefore different responses can be fair?


44 posted on 11/22/2005 1:48:40 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: HitmanNY

"I am considering running for office in Nevada! ;-)"

I knew it!!! Best of luck to you.

I am part of the dominant culture, believe me. We are simply arguing differences of opinion regarding some details.


45 posted on 11/22/2005 1:49:08 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: HitmanNY

It does if your reason for why female sexuality must be protected is that females can become pregnant.

BTW, I happen to agree that females should be protected in this way, it's just that pregnancy has little to do with it.


46 posted on 11/22/2005 1:51:12 PM PST by Restorer (Illegitimati non carborundum)
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To: InsureAmerica
Fair enough. But the point remains its perfectly fair to treat different situations differently.

Maybe I misunderstand, and if so I'm sorry, but is it that you feel the punishment in both cases (adult male enjoys sexual tryst with 16 year old female, and adult female enjoys sexual tryst with 16 year old male) should be the same?

I don't think they should for reasons I said. And like I said, I think that's the consensus opinion.

Is it just that you think that while the situations are different and different concerns are at issue, the punishment should be the same? Or that the situations are essentially the same and the punishment should be the same? Or something else?
47 posted on 11/22/2005 1:53:05 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: HitmanNY

"Why should the punishment be equal (or comperable) when the violation is of a different nature?"

Exactly. So logically I would assume you believe in the counter argument, that if the violation is of the same nature, then the punishment should be the same? Here we are talking about a violation that is the same. A man does it, he gets jail, a woman does it she gets a pass..

This is the only difference. (we'll proffer that on a case by case basis details may vary, of course, but you get the point)


48 posted on 11/22/2005 1:53:44 PM PST by InsureAmerica (Evil? I have many words for it. We are as dust, to them. - v v putin)
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To: Restorer
I explicitly said that that was one reason, not the exclusive one. Is English the preferred language on FR? :-)
49 posted on 11/22/2005 1:54:09 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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To: InsureAmerica

The violation is clearly not the same. THAT's the point.


50 posted on 11/22/2005 1:55:18 PM PST by HitmanLV (Listen to my demos for Savage Nation contest: http://www.geocities.com/mr_vinnie_vegas/index.html)
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