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Father kills 4 children, self after spousal dispute (2006 US murder totals - 8788 and rising)
Fort Wayne Journal Gazette ^ | 7/04/06

Posted on 07/08/2006 7:59:32 PM PDT by Libloather

Father kills 4 children, self after spousal dispute
Associated Press
Posted on Wed, Jul. 05, 2006


An undated photo provided by the Gustine Police Department shows twins Alyssa Branscum, 5, left, and Taylor Branscum. The twins and their two other siblings were found dead in their Gustine, Calif., home Tuesday, July 4, 2006, officials said. The children apparently died of gunshots to the head, and their father, Trevor Branscum, 38, died of a self-inflicted wound, Mayor Jim Bonta said. Police Sgt. Vince Inaudi said the children appeared to be sleeping when they were shot. The evidence was consistent with a murder-suicide, but the department planned to conduct a full homicide investigation, he said. (AP Photo/Gustine Police Department)

GUSTINE, Calif. – A man who was seen arguing with his wife Tuesday later killed his four young children with a hunting rifle before turning the gun on himself, officials said.

Authorities identified the dead siblings as Aubrie Branscum, 12; Jacob, 10; and twins Taylor and Alyssa, 5.

The children apparently died of gunshots to the head, according to Mayor Jim Bonta.

Their father, Trevor Branscum, 38, died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Authorities told the mayor Branscum had to reload the rifle before each shot.

Bonta said that the family had lived in Gustine for several years and that police were unaware of any previous problems with the family.

“They were happy; they were doing fireworks together last night,” Bonta said.

The bloodshed came about an hour after a store owner called police to report that Branscum and his wife, Amanda, were having an argument. Police said that as the woman drove away in a van, her husband dove through the window.

Authorities said that after police were called to the Branscum home before 2 a.m., officers saw Amanda Branscum lying in the road uninjured; the father and children were found dead inside the house.


TOPICS: Local News
KEYWORDS: 2006; 4; 8788; banglist; children; deathgcultivation; dispute; donutwatch; father; kills; murder; murdersuicide; rising; self; spousal; total; us
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Man Kills His 4 Children, Then Takes Own Life
Olivia Munoz, The Associated Press
July 5, 2006, 3:39 PM PDT


In an image provided by the Gustine Police Department, Aubrie Branscum, 12, is shown in an undated photo.


In an image provided by the Gustine Police Department, Jacob Branscum, 10, is shown in an undated photo.

Gustine, Calif. — Clergy and crisis experts from throughout Merced County were counseling the residents of a small community where police say a man apparently shot his four young children with a rifle before turning the gun on himself.

The deaths of Trevor Branscum, 38, and his children shook the city of Gustine, a community of about 5,200 people 90 miles northwest of Fresno.

According to the Gustine Police, Branscum and his wife, Amanda Trimble, were arguing at a market near their home early Tuesday morning. Police planned to review the store's surveillance tape to see what led to the fight.

Trimble told police she left with a friend after they got home and came back about an hour later to find her husband fatally shot. Her friend called police who found Trimble lying in the street, hysterical but not physically hurt, officers said.

Police discovered the bodies of Aubrie, 12, Jacob, 10, and twins Taylor and Alyssa, both 5, in the house, apparently shot while they were sleeping, said Police Sgt. Vince Inaudi.

Trimble was staying with family outside of Gustine on Wednesday. She broke down during initial police questioning but will be interviewed again, Chief Don Hutchins said.

Inaudi said she is not a suspect.

"We haven't discovered anything that leads us to believe that this is not a murder-suicide like we originally thought," Inaudi said. Police continued their investigation Wednesday.

Branscum and Trimble were married on Valentine's Day three years ago, around the same time they moved into their four-bedroom, three-story house. Branscum, who worked in construction, and Trimble, a waitress, had lived in Patterson and Walnut Grove before moving to Gustine.

"We're still trying to figure out what brought them here and how this all came about. There are a lot of little pieces to this puzzle we're still trying to fit together," Inaudi said.

Police could not find any reports of domestic violence from the couple, Inaudi said.

Neighbors said the family always seemed happy. On Monday, the father and children were in the front yard lighting fireworks, neighbors said.

Aubrie Branscum was a student at Gustine Middle School. She was on softball, soccer and cheerleading teams, Hutchins said. She and her 10-year-old brother, Jacob, were in a city summer camp that did community services such as painting, pulling weeds and planting flowers.

"I never heard any arguments from the house," said Steven Morris, 18, who lives across the street. "It's sad because the kids didn't do anything. Kids don't deserve that."

http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-murdersuicide,0,6283293.story?coll=ktla-news-1

1 posted on 07/08/2006 7:59:36 PM PDT by Libloather
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To: Libloather
Another example of kids used as pawns in a sick game of revenge.

Gutless, cowardly parents who kill their own innocent flesh and blood to get back at a spouse deserve a special corner in hell.

2 posted on 07/08/2006 8:03:51 PM PDT by sinkspur (Today, we settled all family business.)
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To: sinkspur

Years ago I had a neighbor kill her two youngest children (infant and toddler) and then herself while her other four children were in the living room watching TV. I'll never forget the screams of those children and they came running across the street to my nextdoor neighbors house for help...


3 posted on 07/08/2006 8:07:43 PM PDT by Arizona Carolyn
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To: Libloather

These were beautiful children and may this coward find his special place in hell.

this is absolutley insane.

God rest their souls


4 posted on 07/08/2006 8:15:05 PM PDT by driftdiver
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To: sinkspur

That is not revenge, it is an exercise of control combined with suicidal desperation. I'm surprised that given our me-centered society that it doesn't happen more often. It is tragic and horrible...that anyone could reach that point.


5 posted on 07/08/2006 8:16:32 PM PDT by Maelstorm (If someone screams in an asylum full of lunatics do they make a sound?)
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To: Libloather

What a rotten bastard.


6 posted on 07/08/2006 8:17:14 PM PDT by umgud (Gov't needs a Department of Common Sense)
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To: Libloather

Absolutely sickening to take away four young lives.


7 posted on 07/08/2006 8:20:16 PM PDT by LdSentinal
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To: Libloather

I have always thought the world would be a better place if those considering murder/suicide start with the suicide.


8 posted on 07/08/2006 8:24:37 PM PDT by goldfinch
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To: Libloather
This didn't happen just in one day. He was a boiling volcano, ready to blow.
I don't ever believe that something like this happens out of the blue. His wife knew him. It will be interesting to hear what she has to say after she stops crying.

She's no innocent bystander here. SOMETHING happened to set him off and I BET it points to the both of them, their relationship and the years from child one-four, maybe even from before they were married.

Simply awful. They are with their Maker now, resting in the peace of the Lord.

9 posted on 07/08/2006 8:31:19 PM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: goldfinch
I have always thought the world would be a better place if those considering murder/suicide start with the suicide.

What an excellent idea.

10 posted on 07/08/2006 8:32:52 PM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: goldfinch

Instructions for the jealous, angry, and murderous:
1) kill self.
2) kill the ex.
3) kill the kids.
4) Either way, burn in Hell.


11 posted on 07/08/2006 8:35:37 PM PDT by nicollo (All economics are politics)
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To: Libloather

The couple was married 3 years ago, the kids were all older than 3 yo. & the mother's last name is different than the kids. Is there another parent somewhere?


12 posted on 07/08/2006 8:37:43 PM PDT by GoLightly
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Brenden Baker, 11, stares at the home of his friends Aubrie, 12, and Jacob Branscum, 10,Wednesday, July 5, 2006, who along with their 5-year old twin siblings, Taylor and Alyssa Branscum, where allegedly shot to death by their father in a murder suicide Tuesday, July 4, 2006, in Gustine, Calif. Police say 38-year-old Trevor Branscum killed his four children with a hunting rifle before turning the gun on himself. (AP Photo/Rich Pedroncelli)


Flowers and toy animals are placed Wednesday, July 5, 2006, at the home where four children died. (AP Photo/Rich Pedroncelli)


A pair of identical toy bears are seen at a makeshift memorial Wednesday, July 5, 2006. (AP Photo/Rich Pedroncelli)

13 posted on 07/08/2006 8:41:37 PM PDT by Libloather (All global warming is local...)
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To: Libloather
The bloodshed came about an hour after a store owner called police to report that Branscum and his wife, Amanda, were having an argument. Police said that as the woman drove away in a van, her husband dove through the window.

Authorities said that after police were called to the Branscum home before 2 a.m., officers saw Amanda Branscum lying in the road uninjured; the father and children were found dead inside the house.

??

Re-reading this story, some elements to it are bizarre.

14 posted on 07/08/2006 8:42:21 PM PDT by LdSentinal
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To: Libloather
Why is the wife referred to with a different last name? And why were they married only 3 years ago?
15 posted on 07/08/2006 8:43:45 PM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: CaptainK
Why is the wife referred to with a different last name? And why were they married only 3 years ago?

It looks like he was not the children's father. I'm guessing that might make it easier to kill them. How awful...

16 posted on 07/08/2006 8:49:27 PM PDT by Dianna
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To: Dianna

Actually, reading more closely, the father and children have the same last name and he is referred to as their father. Only the mother has a different name.


17 posted on 07/08/2006 8:51:20 PM PDT by Dianna
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To: Libloather

Poor kids. Heartbreaking


18 posted on 07/08/2006 9:03:09 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: paul51

The oldest girl is - was - just gorgeous! The mother was on our FReeper prayer thread, so perhaps someone here knows her or lives there.


19 posted on 07/08/2006 9:12:06 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: Dianna

But she's their mother in the CA birth index.


20 posted on 07/08/2006 9:20:16 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: CaptainK; GoLightly

Ok - they probably shacked up for a few years while having kids, and she kept her maiden name after marriage.

I see it all the time....


21 posted on 07/08/2006 10:25:54 PM PDT by SnarlinCubBear (I snarl, therefore I am)
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To: SnarlinCubBear
I see it all the time....

I've seen it too. Usually relationships like that are um, a bit problematic.

22 posted on 07/08/2006 10:41:29 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: nicollo

Burn in hell? For how long?


23 posted on 07/08/2006 11:45:41 PM PDT by nuf said (I am, therefore I think.)
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To: starfish923
She's no innocent bystander here. SOMETHING happened to set him off

No matter what she did to "set him off" it does no justify his actions. People get upset everyday, they get their hearts broken and they have terrible family problems. Not matter what it was it does not account for what he did. We should keep the blame where it belongs.

24 posted on 07/09/2006 3:28:01 AM PDT by foolscap
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To: LdSentinal

I think maybe they are referring to a drive thru window like you would see at a fast food place. It seems if he had driven through a plate glass window they would have said more about that. As far as the mother being in the road it says, she was overcome by hysteria so I would guess she found the bodies and got as far as the street and collapsed. That's just a guess


25 posted on 07/09/2006 3:35:12 AM PDT by foolscap
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To: foolscap
No matter what she did to "set him off" it does no justify his actions. People get upset everyday, they get their hearts broken and they have terrible family problems. Not matter what it was it does not account for what he did. We should keep the blame where it belongs.

All true and Andrea Yates should get the death penalty, then burn in hell.

I suppose it's the headlines I object too...."marital dispute"?!
He murders his own children and himself and there might have been a "dispute"? Something doesn't smell right there. SHE is lying outside on the sidewalk uninjured? Completely uninjured? I wonder where she was in defending her four babies, that's all. They had more than a mere "argument." And it didn't suddenly start in ONE day. Has she NO part in this? Is she completely blameless in all this? Four babies and one father/husband are dead.....and she isn't even injured.

It ALWAYS AND ALWAYS takes two to fight. One person alone can't have a "fight," "argument" or "dispute"; it always takes TWO. So if there is a fight, then both are to blame for the fight. That's just a fact.

Also, when buttons are pushed, they are pushed by someone, KNOWING full well that buttons are being pushed. That goes for spouses, siblings, work-mates, whatever. That's the egregious part of fighting: buttons pushed are pushing someone farther and farther. The button pusher knows this but never knows "how far" the other person will go. That is always an unknown, yet the buttons continue to be pushed and pushed and pushed.

Some people just prefer to push buttons because they know they can. It's part of the control they have and exercise....especially when THEY don't have the guts, backbone, courage, brains, desire, whatever, to solve the problem WITHOUT pushing buttons.

Then when pushed-person goes "too far," the button pusher can ALWAYS say, "I didn't know s/he would go off like that. Besides, it's not MY fault, I didn't pull the trigger."

I was just wondering. This wasn't merely a dispute or argument. He didn't simply "go off" one day. I would be hard pressed to believe that she was blameless.
I am just wondering, that's all.

She will weep her way past any blame, naturally. Andrea Yates is doing a good job of it. Humans will do that with women, especially young women....let them weep their way past due process. Practice. It works.
Then, she will remarry and have more children. One hopes she will have learned something about disputes, arguments and fighting.

26 posted on 07/09/2006 6:51:10 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: GoLightly
I've seen it too. Usually relationships like that are um, a bit problematic.

Problematic? You said a mouthful.

See my post above.....please.

27 posted on 07/09/2006 6:55:17 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: nuf said
Burn in hell? For how long?

FOREVER!

28 posted on 07/09/2006 6:58:08 AM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are awesome!)
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To: starfish923

She wasn't home to defend the babies...did you read the article? It clearly says she was gone, with a friend, for about an hour. Come home to find him dead.


29 posted on 07/09/2006 7:01:23 AM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are awesome!)
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To: starfish923
She's no innocent bystander here. SOMETHING happened to set him off

She probably told him she wanted a divorce. He probably has been physically or mentally abusive for years. Oftentimes men when kill their spouses and/or children rather than let them leave. In fact, it is extremely dangerous to leave an abusive spouse, NECESSARY, but dangerous. The beatings or threats turn to murder rather than letting the spouse have her freedom or take the kids away from him.

We live in fear that my ex-son-in-law will do the same thing. He is a vengeful, insane monster and we won't be able to rest easy until he is dead and gone. We just pray he doesn't take anyone with him.

30 posted on 07/09/2006 7:08:22 AM PDT by jamaly (I will never forget 9-11-01!!!!)
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To: trussell
She wasn't home to defend the babies...did you read the article? It clearly says she was gone, with a friend, for about an hour. Come home to find him dead.
Authorities said that after police were called to the Branscum home before 2 a.m., officers saw Amanda Branscum lying in the road uninjured; the father and children were found dead inside the house.

That's the last line in the article.
I wonder why you assume that I didn't read the article. What article are YOU reading? Did she faint? She fought with him and then just went visiting with a girlfriend? Do you KNOW how strange that sounds? After a mean, nasty, vicious fight with spouse, she visits a girlfriend in the middle of the night? How many MATURE married women visit a girlfriend in the middle of the night after a fight? If they do, instead of going HOME, then they are way too young to be married. One doesn't talk to one's GIRLFRIEND at that age. One goes home to one's children, to one's family and calms down.

I am not excusing him in any way, but if you know ANYTHING about human nature and marriages, you KNOW that these things are NEVER "out of the blue" or all the fault of one spouse. It always takes two to fight. One is often the button pusher who exercises control by pushing buttons s/he KNOWS will set the other off.

Button pushers then can claim that "I didn't know s/he would go THIS far. It's not MY fault."
Button pushers often continue to enable the problem because they don't have the brains, guts or whatever to solve the obvious problems with counseling, therapy, divorce, whatever. THEY stay in a rotten marriage, damage the children, continue down the path of disaster, all the while enabling, pushing buttons and claiming the high moral road because THEY merely provoked and enabled.

Never their fault. Baloney.

31 posted on 07/09/2006 7:17:55 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: jamaly
She probably told him she wanted a divorce. He probably has been physically or mentally abusive for years. Oftentimes men when kill their spouses and/or children rather than let them leave. In fact, it is extremely dangerous to leave an abusive spouse, NECESSARY, but dangerous. The beatings or threats turn to murder rather than letting the spouse have her freedom or take the kids away from him.
We live in fear that my ex-son-in-law will do the same thing. He is a vengeful, insane monster and we won't be able to rest easy until he is dead and gone. We just pray he doesn't take anyone with him.

1. Abusive spouses CAN control themselves. They don't beat up their boss, their neighbors, the local cop or the local minnister....they beat up NO one except the fool who allows herself to be beaten.

Please don't start the lecture about abused women syndrome. Men who beat women seek out women who will allow themselves to be beaten. It NEVER starts the day after the wedding. That kind of nastiness starts WAY before....unless a woman is foolish enough to marry a man before she knows him well.
Then, she claims that she is stuck. Sure she is because she allows herself to be. Adults are NOT weak, helpless, innocents who are incapable of changing, moving, growing and being responsible. They really aren't.

2. As for your vengeful, insane ex-son-in-law, one wonders at your daughter for ever marrying him. I hope she didn't stay long enough to have children with him.

3. You live in fear? That's sad. That's no way to live. You two should pray to God for courage. (I do every day, just to stay strong.) As Johann Wolfgang von Goethe wrote:
Wealth lost, something lost; honor lost, much lost; courage lost, all lost.

32 posted on 07/09/2006 7:31:53 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: starfish923
It sounds to me as if you have been the "victim" of a button pusher. It also appears you play the "victim" role very well.

Trimble told police she left with a friend after they got home and came back about an hour later to find her husband fatally shot. Her friend called police who found Trimble lying in the street, hysterical but not physically hurt

From the article, she was hysterical. Most anyone finding their spouse dead from a self inflicted gunshot wound would be hysterical. Another poster postulated that she probably made it as far as the street before being "overcome by hysteria".

One doesn't talk to one's GIRLFRIEND at that age

They don't? I know of several people who still talk to their "girlfriends" well into their 60's. You sure take liberties with what you deem to be appropriate behavior. Not everyone lives with the same set of *rules* you have imposed upon yourself

We can sit here and cast blame all we want, but we weren't there. We don't know what caused her to go with a friend and leave the children with *their father*. Maybe she chose to go away to give him time to calm down. She was only gone an hour. Maybe he was in the habit of raising his hand to her...and she left to keep that from happening. (notice the word Maybe)

As for your "button pusher" scenario...the one who's buttons are being pushed always has the option of ending the relationship and asking for custody. There is never a good excuse for taking the lives of young innocents like he did.

You have no idea if you are right...and your *Never their fault. Baloney.* comment reaks of your own issues.

33 posted on 07/09/2006 7:46:55 AM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are awesome!)
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To: starfish923
This didn't happen just in one day. He was a boiling volcano, ready to blow. I don't ever believe that something like this happens out of the blue. His wife knew him. It will be interesting to hear what she has to say after she stops crying. She's no innocent bystander here. SOMETHING happened to set him off and I BET it points to the both of them, their relationship and the years from child one-four, maybe even from before they were married.

Sometimes a person can be a boiling volcano and the things that set him or her off have nothing to do with any other persons residing in the home. She may or may not be an innocent bystander, but if you've ever lived around or with an explosive, abusive person, the things that 'set him (or her) off' can indeed be 'committed', if you will, by others who are absolutely innocent bystanders. She, or she and her husband, may have acted in ways that set each other off. But if he was truly an explosive personality, they were already tiptoeing around him with his low threshhold and boiling point. We don't know yet. I guess my point is that if he was a boiling volcano, and it seems so, no one person need to have set him off, any everyday, innocuous occurence could have done that.

34 posted on 07/09/2006 8:08:46 AM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: Libloather

:(


35 posted on 07/09/2006 8:14:35 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: foolscap
Not matter what it was it does not account for what he did. We should keep the blame where it belongs.

CORRECT.

What he did is atrocious and completely unacceptable.

36 posted on 07/09/2006 8:46:36 AM PDT by Pikachu_Dad
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To: Libloather

The two little girls are angels. What a shame. Prayers for the four murdered children. Killing your children is as sick as it gets


37 posted on 07/09/2006 8:51:00 AM PDT by dennisw (Confucius say man who go through turnstile sideways going to Bangkok.)
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To: starfish923; jamaly
1. Abusive spouses CAN control themselves. They don't beat up their boss, their neighbors, the local cop or the local minnister....they beat up NO one except the fool who allows herself to be beaten.

Some abusers beat up their boss, their neighbors, the local cop etc... "Going postal" would be an extreme example of it. In the case of a spouse, change the word allows to tolerates. People do *not* give their abuser permission to abuse them, though many tolerate ongoing abuse. Oft times, because they feel they deserve it.

Please don't start the lecture about abused women syndrome. Men who beat women seek out women who will allow themselves to be beaten.

The batterer can also be the woman & you're being a bit over simplistic.

It NEVER starts the day after the wedding. That kind of nastiness starts WAY before....unless a woman is foolish enough to marry a man before she knows him well.

It *usually* starts before the wedding, but not always. Narcissists tend to be very good at hiding what's in store. They may not begin to work on breaking down their victim until after they know they've got them hooked.

Then, she claims that she is stuck. Sure she is because she allows herself to be. Adults are NOT weak, helpless, innocents who are incapable of changing, moving, growing and being responsible. They really aren't.

Millions of Iraqi's & Afghani's were "stuck". It is the exact same mentality, writ large.

Sometimes it takes someone from the outside to help people begin to unstick themselves. Sadly, much of the psychological "help" available to those trying to unstick tends towards reshuffling the pieces around the same game board.

2. As for your vengeful, insane ex-son-in-law, one wonders at your daughter for ever marrying him. I hope she didn't stay long enough to have children with him.

Was that really necessary?

Went through one of these murder/suicide things with my ex's extended family, though he didn't kill any of his children. After he retired, he became depressed & worried about his ability to provide for himself & his wife. I never saw the couple as codependent...

38 posted on 07/09/2006 11:38:53 AM PDT by GoLightly
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To: fortunecookie
Sometimes a person can be a boiling volcano and the things that set him or her off have nothing to do with any other persons residing in the home. She may or may not be an innocent bystander, but if you've ever lived around or with an explosive, abusive person, the things that 'set him (or her) off' can indeed be 'committed', if you will, by others who are absolutely innocent bystanders. She, or she and her husband, may have acted in ways that set each other off. But if he was truly an explosive personality, they were already tiptoeing around him with his low threshhold and boiling point. We don't know yet. I guess my point is that if he was a boiling volcano, and it seems so, no one person need to have set him off, any everyday, innocuous occurence could have done that.

Boiling volcanoes who really are totally unpredictable (Anything/one might set them off.) and explode with violence at any/everyone are in prison. They are felons because they cannot/will not control themselves. Their acts of uncontrollable and unpredictable violence (volcano eruption) land them in prison or in an insane asylum.

Boiling volcanoes, like husbands/wives, people who work for a living, have children, are law-abiding, church-going, have friends, decent relationships with family, community, etc., OBVIOULY can and do control themselves. They AREN'T felons or on medication because they learned when they can and cannot explode. They aren't mentally ill or psychotic....they are just angry people who marry the doormats. Their explosion IS NEVER at the local cop, minister, clerk or their friends. It's always at their spouses and children, the doormat and captive audience respectively.

Sorry, but I've seen TOO many volcaoes who explode QUITE selectively.

39 posted on 07/09/2006 12:30:34 PM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: GoLightly
<Some abusers beat up their boss, their neighbors, the local cop etc... "Going postal" would be an extreme example of it. In the case of a spouse, change the word allows to tolerates. People do *not* give their abuser permission to abuse them, though many tolerate ongoing abuse. Oft times, because they feel they deserve it.
Abusers who beat up bosses? What boss doesn't file a police report? Those who "go postal" do it ONCE. Then, they are dead. "Going postal" happens ONCE.

Enablers DO give their abuser permission to abuse them because they STAY with them. In fact, they KNOW what kind of men they are before they marry them....or they married these abusers without knowing them very well. And, the abuse starts pretty soon. Certainly before four children come into the picture.

The very definition of "enabler" is the "tolerator." If they feel that they "deserve it" then they are as SICK as the people who abuse them.
NO ONE deserves it and, when a person has four children, one HAS to step up to the plate and protect children and self. To do otherwise shows no courage.
It's not the children's fault that mom has no guts....it's her fault and MANY women find the backbone when it comes to protecting their children. They may have to dig deep but they DO, God bless'em.

I have infinite faith in people ability to change or to step up to the challenge. Too many people HAVE found the courage. It's rarely hopeless.

In this case, it is because all five are dead. I just wonder at what mom might have done to keep this tragedy from the "hopeless" stage....and I DON'T buy into the "cpuldn't do anything" excuse. There are almost always choices.

--------------------------------------

The batterer can also be the woman & you're being a bit over simplistic.
True, it does happen but the HUGE majority is the other way. So, it isn't a stretch to make the batterer HIM ... and you know it.

---------------------------------

It *usually* starts before the wedding, but not always. Narcissists tend to be very good at hiding what's in store. They may not begin to work on breaking down their victim until after they know they've got them hooked.
Lol. Does that mean that narcissists are therefore abusers? No, it doesn't. They are no better or worse at hiding things than anyone else. It depends on how smart/crafty they are. It has NOTHING to do with battering.
Also it DOES start before the wedding because the abuser SEEKS out the doormat. He (and I will continue to use that pronoun) tries her out so he will know how far he can go. He discards the women who WON'T put up with it. He's EXTRA nice to the doormat because he knows that her self esteem is so low (or she's not very smart, PLUS being a doormat) that ANY attention will get her hooked. But, he HAS to test her so he can test the limits of his abuse.
It wouldn't work any other way.

-------------------------

1. Millions of Iraqi's & Afghani's were "stuck". It is the exact same mentality, writ large.
2. Sometimes it takes someone from the outside to help people begin to unstick themselves. Sadly, much of the psychological "help" available to those trying to unstick tends towards reshuffling the pieces around the same game board.

1. Wrong again. Women in Muslim cultures DO have recourse.....their own families. Afghanistan's MEN were as abused and oppressed as the women. ALL men had to wear beards, had to eschew their wives company in public, serve in the militia and had to BOW DOWN to the Taliban. If the MEN disobeyed they were killed or imprisoned, leaving their families destitute. Most men obeyed because they feared for their own families. It was brutal for all Afghanis, not JUST the women.
2. Change HAS to come from within. If change ONLY comes from without, then there is no change and the doormat will find another abuser. It's the same with many dysfuntions...change HAS to come from within.

-------------

Was that really necessary?
Went through one of these murder/suicide things with my ex's extended family, though he didn't kill any of his children. After he retired, he became depressed & worried about his ability to provide for himself & his wife. I never saw the couple as codependent...

NOW you mention the murder/suicide. How convenient to mention it WITH your scold and not before. No apologies from me. You were extremely manipulative with your information. And you know that too.
Finally, just because YOU didn't see them as codependent doesn't really mean much.....given what you've written above. You JUST finished saying how good they were at hiding themselves. I don't think that you can have it both ways.

--------------------

These horror stories don't come from nothing and nowhere. That is my point.
Given the attitudes about the WIFE on this thread and YOUR attitudes about abuse I am NOT SURPRISED AT ALL that the abuse continues.
It's all very sad, especially because it is MOSTLY preventable.

40 posted on 07/09/2006 1:02:21 PM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: trussell
It sounds to me as if you have been the "victim" of a button pusher. It also appears you play the "victim" role very well.
I have news for you. MOST people have, at one time or another, been both. I suppose that's human nature. You just accused me of being a human being. How dare you.
However I have not been either to the extent where FIVE people are dead...four babies and their dad.

More later. I'm going to a birthday party.

41 posted on 07/09/2006 1:11:25 PM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: starfish923; foolscap
All true and Andrea Yates should get the death penalty, then burn in hell.

Erm, what sentence do you think Mr. Yates should get? The analogy you chose speaks volumes. You associated people in the passion plays by gender, rather than by the roles they played...

I suppose it's the headlines I object too...."marital dispute"?!

The headline is neutral. Seeing anything more in it would come from a reader's perception.

He murders his own children and himself and there might have been a "dispute"? Something doesn't smell right there. SHE is lying outside on the sidewalk uninjured? Completely uninjured? I wonder where she was in defending her four babies, that's all. They had more than a mere "argument." And it didn't suddenly start in ONE day. Has she NO part in this?

Seriously, you need to work on your understanding of personal boundaries. There was nothing that she did or could have done to *make* him do this.

Is she completely blameless in all this?

Unless she pulled the trigger, yes, she is blameless. Due to some red flags that I saw in the news report, she prolly will tend to agree with you, rather than with me. Still doesn't change the fact that 100% percent of blame falls on the one who pulled the trigger.

Four babies and one father/husband are dead.....and she isn't even injured.

While she has no physical injuries, I would hardly say that she is unscathed by this. There is no doubt in my mind, that was the point. Ya wanna shred someone, harm those they love.

It ALWAYS AND ALWAYS takes two to fight. One person alone can't have a "fight," "argument" or "dispute"; it always takes TWO. So if there is a fight, then both are to blame for the fight. That's just a fact.

I disagree. Inadvertently burning the pot roast is not an act of war... Seeing the burnt pot roast as proof that your SO doesn't care about you, is.

Also, when buttons are pushed, they are pushed by someone, KNOWING full well that buttons are being pushed. That goes for spouses, siblings, work-mates, whatever. That's the egregious part of fighting: buttons pushed are pushing someone farther and farther. The button pusher knows this but never knows "how far" the other person will go. That is always an unknown, yet the buttons continue to be pushed and pushed and pushed.

There is one appropriate, healthy response to button pushing. All of us are responsible for disarming our own buttons. Long as we try to lay blame for our reaction on the button pusher, we are handing them power over us.

Some people just prefer to push buttons because they know they can. It's part of the control they have and exercise....especially when THEY don't have the guts, backbone, courage, brains, desire, whatever, to solve the problem WITHOUT pushing buttons. Then when pushed-person goes "too far," the button pusher can ALWAYS say, "I didn't know s/he would go off like that. Besides, it's not MY fault, I didn't pull the trigger." I was just wondering. This wasn't merely a dispute or argument. He didn't simply "go off" one day. I would be hard pressed to believe that she was blameless. I am just wondering, that's all.

Bet he killed the kids as the ultimate act of pushing her buttons... He sure showed her... Unless she pulled that trigger, she was in no way responsible for his actions!

She will weep her way past any blame, naturally. Andrea Yates is doing a good job of it. Humans will do that with women, especially young women....let them weep their way past due process. Practice. It works. Then, she will remarry and have more children. One hopes she will have learned something about disputes, arguments and fighting.

She is not to blame, any more than Mr. Yates is to blame. Do I think she & Mr. Yates were Both enablers? Yes, yes I do. Doesn't mean I place fault on either of them for the horrific actions of their spouses.

42 posted on 07/09/2006 1:21:58 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: Libloather

The following is from a person that lives in Gustine, California:

"You people are all guessing and conjecturing without knowing one shred of actual circumstances. Get a life. Your posturing and philosophizing make me sick. These are real people, usually good members of our community. Bad things happen to good people. Trevor snapped. End of story.... There is stress in all of our lives and we each deal with it differently; some in good ways, some in bad. You do not know any of the people involved. You should be ashamed."


43 posted on 07/09/2006 2:08:25 PM PDT by NY Attitude (You are responsible for your safety until the arrival of Law Enforcement Officers!)
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To: Libloather

This is info from another article.

"I just wanted to find Amanda and give her a hug," Lee said, though she found no one at the house. She said the family had appeared happy, though Trevor Branscum recently lost a construction job and had to take another at $5 less per hour in Modesto. That caused Trimble to seek a job, something Branscum never wanted, she said.


44 posted on 07/09/2006 2:40:43 PM PDT by snowstorm12
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To: snowstorm12

My theory is she had plans with her friends that night. She went to the store to get a few things alone. This guy follows her there and starts an argument. The store clerk says he showed up a short time later and she came in alone. It was probably about him being at home with kids for the night while she goes out and has a good time. She tells him to stuff it and get lost. She wanted some free time for a night to herself. He jumps in her car and later the store owner sees him go out the window of the vehicle. She heads home and head outs. He probably pulls this sort of thing all the time so she thought nothing of it.


45 posted on 07/09/2006 2:51:18 PM PDT by snowstorm12
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To: Libloather

This is a sick, twisted world. There really are no words.



46 posted on 07/09/2006 3:04:38 PM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: starfish923

The only innocent victims in this entire story are the children.

Beyond that, we do not know.


47 posted on 07/09/2006 3:08:44 PM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: GoLightly
All of us are responsible for disarming our own buttons.

THAT is the KEY to a good marriage. Wow. Excellent analysis.

48 posted on 07/09/2006 3:12:17 PM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: starfish923

I have read all of these statements and for U people that are putting Amanda down are incredible ignorant! That woman no matter what did not deserve this to happen! Her husband regardeless of the circumstance took the lives of their children. My parents live in Gustine and my brother was Jacob's best friend!! You have no right to bagger Amanda. Saying she should have known or that she should have seen this coming. U Morons that are not reading everything are not getting the story. Her husband and her had an arguement she then decided to call a gfriend to pick her up so they can both get control of themselves. She did not leave her kids. She was not injured because she was not there when this happened she was with her gfriend. She returned home to find her husband dead in the kitchen. She then ran out of the house hysterically trying to get some help and she fainted on the floor. UNINJURED BECAUSE SHE WAS NOT THERE!!!!!!!!! I think we should be grieving the death of these 4 innocent children not trying to play detective and start pointing fingers at she should have done this or that. You do not know what you would do in that situation. I think this pathetic and the only reason I am posting this is because my brother lost his best friend and Amanda was a wonderful mother that did everything in her power for those kids!! U don't know anything about her.......


49 posted on 07/09/2006 5:22:05 PM PDT by lmf
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To: lmf

BS. Based on your signup date, you're not even in the US.


50 posted on 07/09/2006 5:39:00 PM PDT by RedWhiteBlue
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