Skip to comments.JonBenet Ramsey Murder Suspect Karr - Case Thread 2
Posted on 08/28/2006 9:01:50 AM PDT by Rte66
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There is nothing at your link, but since you titled it "Abduction Murder," I wouldn't think there would be a whole lot of parents, percentage-wise, who had to abduct their children to kill them - only the obvious non-custodial ones and that might be the whole 14% you're quoting.
As for Danielle, you were the one who was comparing apples to oranges - a primary crime scene where the victim was killed and the body was found, compared to a secondary crime scene where the victim was simply abducted. Big difference in actions involved.
corrected link is in post 344, I need to work on my html skills.
JonBenet and Danielle are both classified as child abductions and a home invasion abduction makes the home a primary crime scene.
As for the 14% rate, it's mostly non-custodials. You'd think a lot of parental child murderers would try to fake an abduction, but they don't, they try to claim or fake an accident or they confess.
Or they are so whacknut like the one who drowned her 5 children, they don't take any steps to cover up or deny.
"As for Danielle, you were the one who was comparing apples to oranges - a primary crime scene where the victim was killed and the body was found, compared to a secondary crime scene where the victim was simply abducted. Big difference in actions involved."
Right. That's what I was hinting at in my earlier post. The Danielle case is not an example of how an intruder can enter a home and not leave evidence b/c Valpa1 didn't establish (and can't b/c we don't know where she was killed) the fact that Danielles case was comparable to that of the JBR case. Once again, you stated it more clearly. It's still apples and oranges, even if we don't know where Danielle was killed. Thanks.
As for the stats Valpa1 quoted those are national statistics that include all sorts of factors not present in the JBR case - it's a misapplication of statistics to make a point.
Interesting points all. I do think from reading his emails to Tracey that he DID in fact have some sexual identity issues, to put it politely. He made numerous references to the presence of a myserious female wherever he went. It's him.
I think you meant to make that a link (Abduction Murder Study) to a website but got the forum in it instead.
I'd like to see it if you can put it up. Thanks.
BTW, an interesting exercise would be to see if we can get stats on how many children were murdered in their home by a stranger who broke and entered the home w/o the parents knowledge (since all the Ramseys and their acquaintances were ruled out). That would be truly apples to apples and I'm curious what it would show.
The converse would also be interesting. How many children have been murdered in the home by their immediate family residing in the same home.
Comparing the stranger/intruder stats against the murder by family stats would be VERY interesting.
I am praying that they had the classroom bugged when they were watching (and hopefully they video taped it also) Karr through the school window interacting with the 5 year old. - I believe what he said to the child is in the Arrest Warrant or in Tracey's Email File. (it was near the end pages of one of these files)
I would love to see the FBI go after this creep under The PROTECT Act, but I will not hold my breath. I guess if the FBI was going to get involved we most likely would have heard something by now.
I haven't finished reading the arrest warrant - I'm still where I stopped last night and I'm not going to download the emails file or phone calls file. Some of it has been on TV (those parts that can be) and some is posted by others on forums - I'll eventually piece it together.
"And hence," I'm not sure what all is in them. I won't hold my breath on the FBI on this one, either. I feel they would be more interested in whether he was part of a network of predators - which, of course, he may be - though I sort of doubt it.
The way he kept looking over his should at the Internet cafe, not wanting anyone to see what was on his monitor screen, tells me that he is still ashamed of these things that he brags about so openly in private in the few emails I've read from the warrant.
He complains about "everyone else" not understanding him and then tries to make arguments for the NA ... well, I don't want to write that word on here - you know the organization I mean. It also has an m and a b and an l and an a after that. Weirdos would get that keyword on google hits and we'd be inundated with JMK's if I wrote it out.
So, I think it would take something like the other rings that the FBI has broken up to get their attention. If we're lucky, maybe he has associated with some of them online, like that one who used to post on another JBR forum from SAmer.
And we won't hear about any of that until it's all over and there are arrests.
I'd really like to know if those people in Europe that he nannied for (if they really exist) have been located and interviewed by LE. That's imperative. If not by Boulder, perhaps by Sonoma. I'd also like to know about 2004 and why he didn't email that whole year. Doing instead of fantasizing?
Truthfully, I really don't care about anything JMK-related at present.
Well, not knowing where she actually died is just a matter of a few yards difference - whether in his bedroom or in his motor home, parked outside.
I can deduce that her live handprint on the headboard of the motorhome bed means she was alive in there, but I've always felt that's where she died because of the blood stains.
>>>Danielle Van Damm, another child abduction murder victim taken from her bed where no evidence of an intruder was found in the home. Neighbor David Westerfield was convicted of the crime.>>>
This scares the crap out of me. I have a baby monitor in my daughter's room (they share a bedroom) with those little alarm things on all the windows. There are freaks everywhere. Just this morning, my (I was very proud) observant daughter noticed a man parked in a truck up the street from the bus stop. After quizzing him, he was waiting on friend to come. I plan on calling the police if he waits for a 'friend' again (I have never seen this person on my street before).
So am I paranoid? Maybe. But it pays to be sometimes.
But that's not paranoid, that is being alert to your environment and taking responsibility for your turf.
When everyone keeps their head down and minds their own business, that's when criminals run amok, not just the molesters either.
Abduction murder is truly a very, very rare event that is just publicized more due to electronic media.
2006 Child Abduction Murder Study
In late 1993, the Criminal Division of the Washington State Attorney General's Office undertook a 3-1/2 year research project, partially funded by the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, to study the investigation of child abduction murder cases.
In this first research project, published in 1997, researchers reviewed more than 600 child abduction murder cases across the United States, then interviewed the investigating detectives. This data provided law enforcement valuable insight into what investigative techniques tend to be most productive.
Now the Attorney Generals Office has released a follow-up study, including 175 additional solved cases. The additional cases generally reflect and support the findings in the original report with several significant and definite differences:
After reading (I could only stomach a handful of pages) of the emails to Michael Tracey I have to say:
First, how could he (Michael Tracey) continue and even have conversations like this with this demented twisted sick man. Even for 'investigative' purposes. Four YEARS of this garbage??? You can't convince me he isn't a sicko himself.
Second, relative or not, John Karr needs to be locked away FOREVER. Why do they not have nuthouses anymore??? We have to give up our civil rights to fight 'terrorism', but yet we have to honor civil rights of demented pyscho's at the expense of our children. We must pay for Katrina "victims" to buy drugs, strippers and video game systems, but we can't pay to house people that would harm our children???
I am sickened and as another relative has said (not the looney tunes two that have been in the news spotlight from day one) he is dead to me. Might as well have stayed in Thailand.
Thanks! Very interesting. You do realize, of course, that that was only in the state of Washington?
Um, no it wasn't. That study happens to be the difinitive study to date on the subject. It was done by the Washingtion AG's office, partly funded by the U.S. Department of Justice and is national in scope.
If you read the intro, you'd know that.
This will probably be the last FR thread roundup on the topic of John Mark Karr, but if more Ramsey murder case info comes up, I'll save the list. Been nice chattin' with y'all!
"Neighbors said the Ramseys entertained often - they had three separate Christmas parties in December. People were often seen coming and going from their house.
"Many people may have had keys to the house, including caterers, a house cleaner, gardeners and landscapers, said Joe Barnhill, who lives across the street and takes care of JonBenet's dog, Jacque.
If others had keys to the house, it is possible that someone may have stolen the keys from one of these people or keys may have been given to a stranger.
It remind me of the Elizabeth Smart case. The perp who kidnapped ES had been inside the Smarts' residence, but was the only one -- among those who had done work at the Smarts'-- who had not been questioned by LE.
A big thank you for the pings.
That was at the very start of the case. There were either 6 or 8 keys out and Patsy knew who they all were. I don't know when the cops got that info out of her, but all were checked out, intensely - for years!
One of those "3" parties was not theirs and they were out of town. I have no idea what the 3rd one might have been. They said they didn't have any that year - but the gingerbread party did count. It just wasn't a big production like the R's normally liked to do.
A great deal of the info that came out at first was later found to be wrong - you kind of have to follow along after that to see what the cops found and what others said in either media interviews or LE questionings (some has been released, not all) or the many books that have been written with more info gleaned by the authors.
You're welcome - y'all can keep posting about the case here, I'm just sick to death of the Karr stuff. Happy sleuthing.
Oh, PS - do you want to go back and hit the "abuse" button on your potato pix post #96, so the mod can delete it? The "no picture" notices are huge and look kind of raggedy there. No problem if you don't want to. See ya!
I'm sorry! I was thinking I was writing to stlnative! My huge apologies. Please disregard, lol!
Hi - I just screwed up - thought I was writing a post to you, but it was stultorum - I was just seeing "stl" in my peripheral vision.
Here is what was supposed to be to you:
"... Oh, PS - do you want to go back and hit the "abuse" button on your potato pix post #96, so the mod can delete it? The "no picture" notices are huge and look kind of raggedy there. No problem if you don't want to. See ya! ..."
There! I need some ice cream, I think!
Thanks for all your hard work tracking down the news items on this story. Whether Karr killed JB or not, I hope he's locked up for a long while--he's a danger to children.
>>>Another thing Karr is not insane, he is flat out a pedophile! He should never see the outside world again.>>>
*sigh* I must agree.
John Mark Karr - Ping List
Please FReep Mail me if you want on or off the
John Mark Karr - Ping List
I plan to follow the John Mark Karr story as I desire to see justice served on the 5 counts of child pornography Karr faces in Sonoma County California. Sonoma County California LE is seeking a new warrant to re-search Karr's 2001 computer with latest technology to see if they can find more child pornography on it and to possibly find a trail on his 2001 computer to see if he was soliciting the child pornography to others back in 2001.
The DA in Boulder County Colorado still has Karr's current laptop computer that he willing brought back with him from Thailand. The Boulder DA has refused to return it to Karr and Boulder LE will be required to seek a warrant to access this laptop computer. I would assume that this warrant will be sought out and will be granted to Boulder LE so that they can find what is on Karr's current laptop computer. Federal charges under the 2003 PROTECT Act could be brought against Karr depending what is found on his current computer since he was not under arrest when he willing grabbed his laptop to bring it back with him to the states after Thailand tossed him out of their country. There could be more child porn on it or information that would lead LE (or the FBI) to possible child victims that Karr may have molested overseas.
More charges may be brought against Karr depending what is found on his past and present computers and I will searching the wires daily to see if anymore charges will be brought against Karr. If you want to be "pinged" when more information is released by the media, please FReep Mail me privately to be put on the John Mark Ping list.
This is not a Ramsey/Karr ping list - you will not be pinged to media articles that only relate to or rehash Karr's false confession to the JonBenet case, unless Boulder's LE has found something to connect Karr to the JonBenet case (like if they finally learn of Karr's whereabouts for December 25th and 26th of 1996)
Thanks for all of your work. You're awesome.
Thanks for all you've done. Appreciate your organizational skills.
You're all welcome. I was glad that all that time spent on this case was finally useful to others. Wish it could be useful to JonBenet!
Touche...and hello to several familiar "faces" from a while back, this is Rusty... had to reregister.
I would dearly love to know what took 4 years and one documentary for Tracy to decide to present Karr to the DA. Plus, as sick as Karr is, I rather he be the Thai's problem.
As it is, his dream came true and he got his "moment" in Boulder and will now forever be tied to JonBenet(even as foolish footnote).
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