Posted on 08/28/2006 9:01:50 AM PDT by Rte66
This is a reference thread with links to previous FR threads discussing the arrest of a suspect, John Mark Karr, in the decade-old cold case concerning the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, plus case resources for continued commentary on investigation of the crime.
mark
JonBenet Ramsey Murder Case Suspect
FR Thread Roundup 1
Free Republic ^ | August 16-27, 2006
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1686829/posts?page=2#2
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1686829/posts?page=460#460
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1686829/posts?page=648#648
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1686829/posts?page=1020#1020
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1686829/posts?page=1652#1652
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1686829/posts?page=1939#1939
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1686829/posts?page=2365#2365
[About the Judge]
http://www.courts.state.co.us/district/20th/judges/20distrbailin.htm
[About the Court]
http://www.courts.state.co.us/district/20th/20dist.htm
[Court News releases]
http://www.courts.state.co.us/main.cfm?webdiv=1166&top=132
[Court Scheduling]
http://www.courts.state.co.us/main.cfm?webdiv=1167&top=132
[Reference to Gag Order - pdf]
http://www.courts.state.co.us/docs/Karr-Publicity.pdf
[About the Boulder Co. Sheriff]
http://www.co.boulder.co.us/sheriff/
[About the Boulder Co. Jail]
http://www.co.boulder.co.us/sheriff/jail/jail.htm
[Karr Info - Sheriff]
http://www.co.boulder.co.us/sheriff/johnkarr.htm
http://www.co.boulder.co.us/sheriff/pdf/custody.pdf
[About the DA - Mary Keenan Lacy]
http://www.co.boulder.co.us/da/portrait.htm
http://www.co.boulder.co.us/da/
[JonBenet Ramsey Case Info - DA's Office]
http://www.co.boulder.co.us/da/pr/
[Info on Court Appearance 8/28/06]
http://www.co.boulder.co.us/newsroom/templates/?a=564&z=13
~~~~~~
[Links to Docs: http://www.courts.state.co.us/main.cfm?webdiv=1167&top=132 ]
Court Scheduling/Documents
Aug 25, 2006 Order RE Pretrial Publicity
Aug 25, 2006 Motion to Limit Pre-Trial Publicity
Aug 25, 2006 Motion for Discovery
Aug 25, 2006 Motion to Prohibit DNA Testing of Evidence Until After There Has Been An Opportunity For the Defense to Be Heard
Aug 25, 2006 Order RE Motion to Protect the Reliability and Fairness of the Proceedings and Mr. Karr's Fundamental Rights
Aug 25, 2006 Motion to Protect the Reliability and Fairness of the Proceedings and Mr. Karr's Fundamental Rights
Aug 25, 2006 Applicants Reply in Support of Application to Unseal Court File and to Vacate August 15, 2006 Order Sealing Arrest Warrant, Affidavit and Other Information Relating to the Arrest of John Mark Karr and Request for Expedited Hearing
Aug 25, 2006 Motion to Seal
Aug 25, 2006 Entry of Appearance
Aug 25, 2006 Order Setting Advisement
Aug 25, 2006 Order RE Disclosure of Arrest Warrant Affidavit
Aug 25, 2006 Order RE Briefing Schedule RE Application to Unseal Court File and to Vacate August 15, 2006 Arrest Warrant, Affidavit, and Other Information Relating to the Arrest of John Mark Karr
Aug 25, 2006 Joinder of American Broadcasting Companies, Inc. in Application to Unseal Court File and to Vacate Aug 15, 2006 Order Sealing Arrest Warrant, Affidavit and Other Information Relating to the Arrest of John Mark Karr and Request for Expedited Hearing
Aug 25, 2006 Joinder of Cable News Network, LP LLLP in Application to Unseal Court File and to Vacate Aug 15, 2006 Order Sealing Arrest Warrant, Affidavit and Other Information Relating to the Arrest of John Mark Karr and Request for Expedited Hearing
Aug 24, 2006 People's Response in Opposition to the Application to Unseal Court File and To Vacate Aug 15 2006 Order Sealing Arrest Warrant, Affidavit and Other Information Relating to the Arrest of John Mark Karr
Aug 21, 2006 Order Re Application to Unseal Court File and to Vacate August 15, 2006 Arrest Warrant, Affidavit, and Other Information Relating to the Arrest of John Mark Karr and Request for Expedited Hearing
Aug 21, 2006 Application to Unseal Court File and to Vacate August 15, 2006 Order Sealing Arrest Warrant, Affidavit and Other Information Relating to the Arrest of John Mark Karr and Request for Expedited Hearing
Aug 21, 2006 Decorum Order
Aug 21, 2006 Order Re Expanded Media Coverage
Aug 15, 2006 Order to Seal Arrest Warrant and Affidavit signed by Judge Bailin
~~~~~~
[Media Links:]
Boulder Daily Camera
http://www.thedailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/
Today's Karr Articles:
http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/county_news/article/0,1713,BDC_2423_4950255,00.html
http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/county_news/article/0,1713,BDC_2423_4950249,00.html
Special JonBenet AP Section
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/fronts/JONBENET?SITE=COBOU&SECTION=HOME
Denver Post - JonBenet Ramsey Section
http://www.denverpost.com/jonbenet
Rocky Mtn News - News Home
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news/
Latest Karr Article:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4950373,00.html
Ramsey Archives
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4799519,00.html
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_907317,00.html
thedenverchannel - ABC 7 News - JonBenet Coverage
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/9718812/detail.html
Google News = JonBenet - Newest first
http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&q=jonbenet&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d
Google News = JonBenet - Compilation
http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&q=jonbenet
Yahoo News = JonBenet - Newest First
http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news/?ei=UTF-8&p=jonbenet&datesort=1&fr=slv1-
Photos
http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?ei=UTF-8&p=jonbenet&datesort=1&fr=slv1-&c=news_photos
Audio/Video
http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?ei=UTF-8&p=jonbenet&datesort=1&fr=slv1-&c=av
FOX News - JonBenet coverage
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210638,00.html?sPage=fnc.national/crime
http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,1117,00.html
Transcripts:
O'Reilly
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210607,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,209258,00.html
Greta Van Susteren - On the Record - Greta Investigates
http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html
FOX Search = john mark karr
http://kevxml2a.infospace.com/_1_HJET6R04BDSHZL__info.foxnws/search/inc/fox_more.htm?fastSearch=1&qcat=sitesearch&qkw=John%20Mark%20Karr&nextPageNum=1&ran=15784
http://kevxml2a.infospace.com/_1_HJET6R04BDSHZL__info.foxnws/search/inc/fox_more.htm?fastSearch=1&qcat=sitesearch&qkw=John%20Mark%20Karr&nextPageNum=1&ran=15784
http://search.foxnews.com/_1_H2PTN2049768ZW__info.foxnws/search/inc/fox_more.htm?&qkw=John%20Mark%20Karr&qcat=web&qi=10&qk=10&top=&nextid=&fastSearch=1&ver=11804
http://search.foxnews.com/_1_ENZTCU0491NW8O__info.foxnws/search/inc/fox_more.htm?&qkw=John%20Mark%20Karr&qcat=web&qi=20&qk=10&top=&nextid=&fastSearch=1&ver=16775
CNN - JonBenet Coverage
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2006/ramsey.case/?ref=google
http://search.cnn.com/pages/search.jsp?query=jonbenet
Transcripts
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/
MSNBC - JonBenet Coverage
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14379566/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14535611/site/newsweek/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14415318/site/newsweek/
Transcripts:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3719710/
Rita Cosby:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13417364/#060825a
ABC News
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/LegalCenter/story?id=2355252&page=1&gma=true
http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/story?id=2342091&page=1
http://abcnews.go.com/US/LegalCenter/wireStory?id=2355447
Court TV - JonBenet Coverage
http://www.courttv.com/news/ramsey/index.html
http://www.courttv.com/news/ramsey/082506_ap.html
http://www.courttv.com/news/2006/0817/jonbenet_suspect_ctv.html
Catherine Crier
http://www.courttv.com/chat/transcripts/2006/0817ramsey-crier.html
Other:
[Petaluma, CA - News]
http://www1.arguscourier.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage
http://www1.arguscourier.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060823/NEWS01/60822018
[Santa Rosa Press-Democrat - near Petaluma - registration required to read stories]
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/
http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060827/NEWS/608270304/1033/NEWS01
[Birmingham News]
http://www.al.com
[Montgomery, AL News]
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com
[National Enquirer - Karr Mullet Video]
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/jonbenet/
[People Mag]
http://people.aol.com/people/article/0,26334,1228895_1333841,00.html
http://people.aol.com/people/article/0,26334,1333492,00.html
I don't think this is the guy.
Just posted an interesting quote on torture on other thread will repost here.
RE: stun gun vs cattle prod.
'This is the worst thing - an electric cattle prod. They use this on your body. If they press that button, your whole body will be in shock. If they do it for too long, you lose consciousness but you do not die. If they press this button, you can die.
ditto on re-post
I wonder if anyone has done a comparison with ALL models of stun gun and cattle prod available at that time? Did Smit? I know he looked at one model but I don't know how many he compared...
Appreciate all your work on this! So much info on these threads, it makes it lots easier to follow this case.
Your link didn't show up. Here it is again:
www.newint.org/issue327/trading.htm
Would someone be willing to summarize what we know so far about JMK's possible involvement in this crime? Maybe we could list out what we know so far? We could update as new information comes in. I started a list on the old thread. Here it is again:
1.) JMK has no alibi
2.) JMK confessed
3.) JMK 'fits the profile'
4.) the DA *must* have more on him
anything else?
Why not?
Cattle prods have been around for ever. Some of the antique ones are very primitive and crafted by the individual farmer for their own use.
Remember in past years how one kid at our school showed several others how to make a simple ones....It became quite the rage for a while.
There's weren't very painful, used small voltage, but someone into electronic gadgets could easily come up with something more powerful.
We don't know for sure if he has an alibi or not - just so far none has been proven.
More important, I don't think he has confessed to the crime. I believe he said he was with JBR when she died and that it was an accident...not the same thing, IMO.
In that case they would have to look at wounds more generally to see if they are consistent with electric shock. Anybody know anything about that?
Since JMK lived in AL I could see the scenario you're suggesting. There are probably a lot of cattle folk there that he could have learned this from.
I do.
Okay, how about this revision:
Would someone be willing to summarize what we know so far about JMK's possible involvement in this crime? Maybe we could list out what we know so far? We could update as new information comes in. I started a list on the old thread. Here it is again:
1.) We can't determine alibi for JMK
2.) JMK confessed to culpable knowledge of the crime
3.) JMK 'fits the profile'
4.) the DA *must* have more on him
anything else?
What we do know is that he's a nut who developed a fascination for the Polly Klass and JonBenet cases, going so far as to move to where the Klass murder happened. He seems to have some weird fantasy thing going about being involved in those crimes, but there's no evidence he was.
As with most high-profile crimes, lots of crazies have "confessed" to this crime, but the DA ain't splainin' why they are taking this one seriously. But then, it's Boulder.
bttt for later reference
ouchh!
Could any husbands out there know the answer to that as well? :-)
Clearly JMK was doing *something* to this poor girl. This could come out in his trial, that is, examinations of evidence to see what kinds of wounds these may have been.
"As with most high-profile crimes, lots of crazies have "confessed" to this crime,"
I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night but I agree with you. The DA may be able to trade her sheepskin for a cup of coffee after this is over.
The marks on her are not burns, they are small abrasions.
When the photos are magnified, her abrasions are the opposite of the stun gun marks Smit demo'ed on a pig's skin - one has a dark center and lighter tissue radiating outward, the other has a light center and darker tissue radiating outward.
If you were wise, you would hold your insults until...but that's too big an if, I'm afraid.
Sure she'll explain...just not on your unreal timetable.
I'm inclined to agree with you. So far, it looks really thin. I feel like the hold-out juror in the movie "12 angry men". There are posters here who believe that a perp, call him X, is guilty of this crime. All they know about X is that his last name is not Ramsey. I'm saying, whoa!, we don't *know* that for sure. But they seem to be certain of it. They're musing that X might be JMK. The funny thing about it is, they could be right I'm just not ready to make that leap yet. So, yes, I agree with you but I don't think JMK, or any other hypothetical intruder, is excluded either.
Interesting. So, this argues against electric shock? Just checking to make sure I'm following you...
I am a long time farmer and familar with cattle prods. Have never seen one leave a mark on cattle or seen one applied to a person.
This guy considered himself a musician/teacher whatever. My opinion is that he would not associate with hayseeds/bumkins that would own a cattle prod.
My uneducated guess would be some kind of condom (French Tickler?) could cause injuries as you describe.
The point of Smit thinking a stun gun was used was because there were two scratches on her leg that were evenly spaced apart like stun gun electrodes are - but these were scratches and could've been from something else that was sharp.
There are two more on the side of her face that don't look like those - one is very much larger and looks like a cigarette burn - but it is also an abrasion.
bookmark
Yes
Not wise and that was not an insult to the DA. I was thinking of the history of this case.
If not an insult to the DA, before she has a chance to present anything, I would hate to see what an insult to her would sound like.
YW - do you want to be on the Ping List?
It's interesting to look at the connections. All this comes about because of Michael Tracey, a leftie journalism prof at CU. He has been pro-Ramsey and pro-intruder from the beginning. He's produced documentaries (some ridicule as "crockumentaries") trying to finger other suspects, which are riddled with incorrect facts and those he fingered have been shown to be innocent.
Karr happened to run into a friend of Tracey when he was "researching" the JonBenet case. Tracey struck up an e-mail correspondence with Karr that went on for years. The genesis of the DA's looking at Karr for this crime was those e-mails.
Here's the catch. Tracey had been corresponding with Karr for about two years when he produced another documentary accusing someone else of this crime. Only after his latest theory went paws up did he start grooming Karr for the perp role.
Maybe the DA has an ace in the hole, like a DNA match we don't know about. But I'd be very surprised.
YW - it does, doesn't it?
I meant to put in the top post that he is to appear today at 4:30 PM (MDT) in Boulder dist. court. It is the advisement and he may or may not be formally charged at that time. If he's not, he'll just be in and out.
One local commentator is guessing it might be DNA from a snail mail envelope sent by Karr to Tracey. But that's speculation.
If I had to put a DelFrisco's steak dinner and $200 bottle of wine on this, I'd have to say this isn't the guy.
You've pointed out several of my concerns about the JMK case and why I suspect the *possibility* that the DA has been had. There are just too many things about this guy that suggest fraud, for lack of a better word. OTOH, he could be our huckleberry but I'd like to see what else the DA has on him.
agreed
Yep.
The commentator probably was reading the FR tread cause I suggested that two or three days before he aired his speculation. Little slow there.
We don't sleep in Holiday Inn, We don't sleep on FR! ;^)
Now if they'd just look into my second theory re: his "car dealership"! OTOH that would take a bit of work on their part.
What I find interesting is that the simple fact that we aren't convinced either way makes us the enemy to anyone that thinks the perp was not a Ramsey.
But then, this is Boulder. Most people don't understand how truly weird the place is.
If you are correct, we'll have these posts to prove you were way ahead of the curve! :)
I heard on Fox & Friends this morning a commentator mention the 'letters from the 13 year old wife' and that they haven't been authenticated as of yet. I knew that they mentioned them (the letters) in an interview with her and her parents, but were they able to produce them? I am speaking of the letters to his first wife where he signed them "SBTC". The commentator said he was convinced this guy DIDN'T do it until those letters came into play. Now he's leaning more toward him being guilty.
I'm still out on whether he did or didn't.
Funny, you really need the yearbook to put some teeth in it. It just tell so much about a person who hasn't changed in twenty years. I'd say bro and dad are lying through their teeth.
In Thailand, Karr described the murder as a "blur". He uses "blurred" in his yearbook. It is a reference to "crying" and "bad things happening".
He also said that: telling about the "accident" (crime) would take hours. It was complicated. The note said that the pickup and delivery would be complicated, too.
Well, the pick up and delivery wasn't complicated. There was none.
And it wasn't an accident. It was a brief encounter with a tiny helpless girl. What kind of Victory could that be??
Yes, I'm in your garden and digging your herb :-)
Seriously, I think that people have pre-conceived notions about the innocence of the Ramseys and it's clouding their faculties. You can ask hard questions about the Ramseys involvement w/o accusing them. Some posters have even outright stated that crime scene evidence has no bearing at all on JMK's involvement. I'll let the reader be the judge on that, but I find that hard to understand. Yes, this forum is about JMK's possible involvement, but we can't understand that w/o looking at the evidence of the crime itself!
But I CAN understand that people don't WANT to believe that immediate family could do something like this. I find some of the gory details hard to WRITE about and I didn't even KNOW the child. Imagine! The same phenomenon of disbelief occured with Lizzie Borden a long, long time ago.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
