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JonBenet Ramsey Murder Case SuspectFR Thread Roundup
Free Republic ^ | August 16-20, 2006 | FReepers

Posted on 08/20/2006 5:37:25 AM PDT by Rte66

For your bookmarking assistance, this is a reference list of links to the Aug 2006 or newer Free Republic threads on the topic of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case and the possible arrest of John Mark Karr as a suspect in her murder.


TOPICS: Local News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: captainhighpants; daxis; fatherdidit; freakazoid; jamieharmon; jmkjbr; johnmarkkarr; jonbenet; karr; ladyboypedophile; patiencevanzandt; patsyrestinpeace; pedophile; ramsey; ramseyonthelam; roundup; thailand; wendyhutchens; wrongguy
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To: ableLight

Correction: it LOOKS like that is what is happening.


1,651 posted on 08/24/2006 11:15:58 AM PDT by ableLight
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To: onyx; stlnative; MizSterious; null and void; gridlock; hershey; hoosiermama; PilloryHillary; ...



ADDENDUM #4
Wed., 8/23/06, 9:01 AM thru Thu., 8/24/06, 1:00 PM CDT




http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1689250/posts
Exclusive: 'I Married John Karr At 13'
ABC News/San Jose ^ | 8.23.06

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1688915/posts
Source: Suspect says he hid in Ramsey house
CNN.com ^ | Wednesday, August 23, 2006; Posted: 5:13 p.m. EDT (21:13 GMT)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1688714/posts
Attorney: Suspect in JonBenet Ramsey killing anxious to return to Colorado (new info)
courttv.com ^ | Aug. 23, 2006 | AP

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1688710/posts
E-mail explains ransom amount
DAILY CAMERA Online ^ | August 23, 2006 | Todd Hartman and Lou Kilzer, Rocky Mountain News

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1688679/posts
JonBenet Flimsy (CO Professor fingered false suspects in the past)
Broward-Palm Beach New Times ^ | Aug 17, 2006 | TONY ORTEGA

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1688651/posts
DNA may lead to dead end (Another Bungle in the JonBenet Murder)
Daily Camera ^ | August 23, 2006 | Vaness Miller


1,652 posted on 08/24/2006 11:20:08 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: stlnative
I think we're a lot closer than yesterday. Hoosiermama's thing about transporting cars was a REAL BIG HELP.

It took care of the money and transportation question.

I have friends in the auto dealer business. I even bought one of my cars from them. $1000 check, $500 cash.

They go to the local auction, buy a couple of cars and resell them. They make the re-sale a wash....and voila "no income".

1,653 posted on 08/24/2006 11:21:59 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: Valpal1
The ransom note caused a lot of things:

It slowed them down on finding her body.

He may have given him more time if he thought the parents would have heeded his threats and not to call police or the FBI. He may have expected them to call in the FBI and wait for the call from him. It probably never expected her body would be found so quickly.

It gave the perp a chance to get his digs in at John Ramsey on a personal level.

It caused the case to become popular in the media, due to the kidnapping ransom note.

He caused people to suspect the parents did it due to the $118K ransom amount. The Ramsey's were/are worth millions.

I am sure I missed something.
1,654 posted on 08/24/2006 11:22:06 AM PDT by stlnative
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To: Sacajaweau

Good grief - of course they went through the house - upon arrival around 6AM.


1,655 posted on 08/24/2006 11:22:24 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: Valpal1

Excellent observation and explains,or at least forces one to look at,other preconceived ideas and theories. That was an outstanding contribution.----I thought I had heard or seen everything there was to hear or see on the subject but I hadn't heard that.


1,656 posted on 08/24/2006 11:24:57 AM PDT by saradippity
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To: txrangerette

You said it yourself:

"... Of course it points AWAY from her. ..."


1,657 posted on 08/24/2006 11:28:05 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: Sacajaweau

"He" did refer to Mrs. Ramsey, in the practice note.


1,658 posted on 08/24/2006 11:29:22 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: Sacajaweau

The pad is in the evidence locker. It will be easy enough to find out what other notes Patsy had written on it, if it were her daily or most recent "things to do" list pad.

That info has never been released, to my knowledge, and I've always wanted to know it.


1,659 posted on 08/24/2006 11:32:46 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: Rte66

Did it start Mr and Mrs Ramsey and is that is all he wrote?
Did they find the extra missing pages?


1,660 posted on 08/24/2006 11:33:52 AM PDT by stlnative
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To: Rte66

Isn't the pad a page numbered yellow contractors pad of paper with the sheets ripping off from the top?


1,661 posted on 08/24/2006 11:35:34 AM PDT by stlnative
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To: Rte66

So, what are your thoughts on 5, 7 and 8? Do you see problems with the timeline or no? What might explain it? Also, what do you know about the 911 recording? I haven't been able to pick out the voices...


1,662 posted on 08/24/2006 11:36:33 AM PDT by ableLight
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To: Sacajaweau

Lee wasn't the only one involved. No one has solved the case yet ... but I would think you know that.


1,663 posted on 08/24/2006 11:39:42 AM PDT by BunnySlippers
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To: Valpal1

In considering all the scientific clues of "normal times" for things, you always have to take into consideration that she was a tiny 6-year-old who only weighed 45 pounds.


1,664 posted on 08/24/2006 11:47:13 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: Sacajaweau

I just don't agree..he was never there..its Mom and Dad. I'd bet my paycheck on it


1,665 posted on 08/24/2006 11:55:55 AM PDT by DenverGal
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To: ableLight

They got home earlier than that. The 10PM is an estimate of the time Patsy went to bed, according to John Ramsey, who said he was still awake at that time.


1,666 posted on 08/24/2006 11:56:29 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: Sacajaweau; DenverGal

If you win the bet with Denver Gal will ya share? I'm a little short right now!


1,667 posted on 08/24/2006 11:59:51 AM PDT by hoosiermama
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To: All
After Hoosiermama's idea about "delivering cars",

we're no longer looking at a school teacher with a child obscession going to Colorado,

but a 32 year old preppy looking rich guy driving a sportscar driving into Boulder at Christmas time. No one would blink an eye!!

1,668 posted on 08/24/2006 12:01:06 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: ableLight

Yes, a MagLite - had plastic casing, I believe, but perhaps metallic. It was one of the long ones that holds a number of D batteries, very heavy, similar to LE-issue.

There are allegedly two in question, one thought to have been left behind by LE - alleged by Ramseys - and one that was used at night in the upper bedrooms, allegedly by Burke, although the one always described as a possible weapon had to be too heavy for him to carry at night to get around the house.

I'll have to return to #7 and #8 questions much later on. Trying to keep up with today's happenings.


1,669 posted on 08/24/2006 12:01:48 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: stlnative

SBTC? Have they shown them anywhere yet?


1,670 posted on 08/24/2006 12:04:28 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: hoosiermama

I'll take any bets...I honestly am 100% sure Karr was never in Boulder


1,671 posted on 08/24/2006 12:04:49 PM PDT by DenverGal
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To: stlnative

A legal pad, with pages taken out of the middle. They know how many pages were taken out and where they came from in the pad - but I can't for the life of me recall right now how many pages it is.

Seems like it was 8, but could be wrong about that. Easy to check it online at some point.


1,672 posted on 08/24/2006 12:09:53 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: txrangerette

OK, remember this chronology:
1) John Ramsey finds the body
2) John Ramsey calls his attorney
3) John Ramsey calls his pilot for an immediate flight to Atlanta

Only, after this did he call the police


1,673 posted on 08/24/2006 12:10:29 PM PDT by DenverGal
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To: ableLight

Will have to address that later, too much going on I haven't caught up on yet.


1,674 posted on 08/24/2006 12:10:55 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: Rte66

I had 'heard', and that's part of the prob IMO, that they had arrived at 10 p.m. and I had heard 9:30 p.m. So, in my mind it was never really clear when exactly they got home. I read about the John Belushi case where pathologists tried to pin his time of death down and a similar thing happened as to what we see here. They got two indicators with time intervals that didn't overlap. So, they just merged the two with a time in-between. That practice seemed to be accepted by pathologists (b/c of individual variance) and the courts. So, it seems reasonable to do here. If I understand it right, that technique results in a time of death of 10 p.m. give or take an hour.

We'll be very conservative here and say that the GI transit was only 30 minutes. Then the perp, at the latest, was feeding JBR at 10:30 p.m. This pushes the time line really tight. He would have had to go up to her room w/o being noticed, whisk her downstairs and have her eating out of a bowl of pineapple with no ones fingerprints on it but Burke's and Patsy's by 10:30 p.m. at the absolute outside. Yes, I think that's enough to question the Ramsey's version of events unless one is emotionally vested in absolutely exonerating them.

If the cop was just lying about the smell (which I haven't heard of any other witnesses contesting that) then she could have died as late as, say, 12 a.m. That could explain it, but if we go to that length then any of the evidence about JMK can suffer the same fate.

To me, the most questionable aspects of the case hinge on three things:

1.) the type of head trauma she received which LOOKS more like an accidental head wound than an intentional one.

2.) the 911 call, not only indicating deception by all 3 of the Ramseys, but showing that Burke knew far too much about what was going on to have been innocently sleeping.

3.) the time of death, discussed above.

The other points, I concur, could be explained by other means.


1,675 posted on 08/24/2006 12:11:16 PM PDT by ableLight
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To: stlnative

Yes to both


1,676 posted on 08/24/2006 12:12:08 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: Rte66

Thanks rte66


1,677 posted on 08/24/2006 12:13:03 PM PDT by ableLight
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To: DenverGal
John Karr said the chances of John Ramsey getting his daughter back was 100%.

Some people will always take the other side. Nothing wrong with that. They become a bangboard....that 12th juror who has to be convinced. So hold onto your opinion and let things fall as they will.

We're ALL speculating here. It was the "where does he get the money" that bothered me because it ties to lifestyle. Hoosiermama solved that.

Maybe when Karr started to get verbal in 2001, it was because the car dealer he was working with had died.

1,678 posted on 08/24/2006 12:15:03 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: Sacajaweau

He had moved from rural Alabama to northern CA in 2000.


1,679 posted on 08/24/2006 12:17:42 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: Sacajaweau

OK, we will agree to disagree. When are they flying him back to Denver?

I just think his whole story falls apart by tomorrow


1,680 posted on 08/24/2006 12:21:08 PM PDT by DenverGal
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To: stlnative
Here is a link from acandyrose with reference to the ransom note from Steve Thomas' book.

http://www.acandyrose.com/04112000thomas-pg73-74.htm

1,681 posted on 08/24/2006 12:21:28 PM PDT by I want to know
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To: All

Court TV is showing the small jet on the tarmac, it's fun to watch NG speculate on every landing chopper....


1,682 posted on 08/24/2006 12:37:12 PM PDT by mystery-ak (My Son, My Soldier, My Hero..............)
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To: Sacajaweau
Here's an article from the Denver Post. I thought the paragraph I have highlighted interesting.

http://www.denverpost.com/jonbenet/ci_4228050

Nagel said that despite thousands of articles and books about the slaying, "most of the evidence in the affidavit has not been disclosed, nor has the media developed it independently."

Larry Pozner on MSNBC said today that he had heard that the affidavit for the arrest warrant was 50-80 pages long (I don't know where he got this information).

1,683 posted on 08/24/2006 12:40:42 PM PDT by I want to know
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To: I want to know
Thank you

I found this interesting...

pages 13 through 16 - contained doodles and lists and some miscellaneous writing."

Did the perp take these with him for souvenirs or where these discarded by the family long before the evening of 12/25 because the notes were not needed any longer?
1,684 posted on 08/24/2006 12:50:21 PM PDT by stlnative
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JMK is now aboard the small jet, about to take off for Boulder...should be there in a couple of hours..


1,685 posted on 08/24/2006 12:52:10 PM PDT by mystery-ak (My Son, My Soldier, My Hero..............)
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To: mystery-ak

everything is going smoothly just like it should. I truly believe they have something on him or he has information or this was a 2 party job and he was there.


1,686 posted on 08/24/2006 12:56:21 PM PDT by stlnative
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To: Rte66

Quite right, and smaller bodies putrify slower because they cool faster. A 300 lb circus mama would putrefy faster because the greater body mass would retain warmth longer, spurring bacterial growth.

The body was also in a presumably cooler room which would also slow putrefaction. So if putrefaction occurrs from 24-36 hours, yet conditions for more rapid putrefaction did not exist and unusual or rapid putrefaction is NOT noted in the autopsy, then perhaps claims of odor/putrefaction by the officer are overstated, mistaken or bias on the part of officer who interprets facts to fit theory instead of the other way around?

Assuming death must have occurred earlier rather than later based on the officer's perception rather than the coronor's statement seems specious at best.


1,687 posted on 08/24/2006 1:00:39 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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JMK is in the air...a 3hr flight...Lady Justice awaits Karr one way or the other...


1,688 posted on 08/24/2006 1:06:30 PM PDT by mystery-ak (My Son, My Soldier, My Hero..............)
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To: I want to know
Here's what caught my eye:

The document explains that authorities did not attempt to contact witnesses before Karr was captured out of fear they might warn Karr and cause him to flee Thailand.

1,689 posted on 08/24/2006 1:17:02 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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To: DenverGal

The police were already there when the body was found! Hello, they were called when the ransom note was found.


1,690 posted on 08/24/2006 1:19:46 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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To: Valpal1

My mistake, but after Ramsey found the note he called his attorney and his pilot before calling the police


1,691 posted on 08/24/2006 1:26:27 PM PDT by DenverGal
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To: Sacajaweau

Either or flying in and buying a car.....Or driving in and flying back. Time wise I think that flying in and driving back would work better


1,692 posted on 08/24/2006 1:30:58 PM PDT by hoosiermama
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To: DenverGal

News just said he and wife and family car broke down in CO on way to CA. WHy didn't he take the southern route?


1,693 posted on 08/24/2006 1:33:16 PM PDT by hoosiermama
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To: DenverGal

No, he didn't. He didn't call the cops at all - he made Patsy do it.

He called the pilot several times during the day, because they were supposed to fly out early that morning. The call he made about prepping the plane for ATL was within 45 minutes of JonBenet's body being found.

No one has ever released the true info on when John R might've *first* called an attorney, so we may never know. There are lots of statements concerning the contacts that afternoon, but he made a lot of calls that day, so we don't really know.


1,694 posted on 08/24/2006 1:35:33 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: hoosiermama

WHy didn't he take the southern route?



He had to stop in Boulder to do a little sightseeing?.....his wife needs to answer the question!


1,695 posted on 08/24/2006 1:35:39 PM PDT by mystery-ak (My Son, My Soldier, My Hero..............)
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To: All

Aacck. CAP is saying the "door was open" and it's conceivable John Karr was there at the gingerbread party. Yeah, right. Pam didn't live there, didn't go to the party, doesn't know who was there or what door was or wasn't open.


1,696 posted on 08/24/2006 1:37:38 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: L.N. Smithee

John Ramsey and Bahrain are a good fit.


1,697 posted on 08/24/2006 1:38:40 PM PDT by Palladin (Ceasefire? What ceasefire??--IDF)
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To: Rte66

I remember an interview years ago of a man who was a friend of the Ramseys saying that he adivised them that day to call their lawyer...he was at the house with them ...I cannot remember who it was, but there must be a record of it somewhere.


1,698 posted on 08/24/2006 1:39:13 PM PDT by mystery-ak (My Son, My Soldier, My Hero..............)
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To: Rte66

CAP?


1,699 posted on 08/24/2006 1:39:20 PM PDT by stlnative
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To: Valpal1
She was in the "WINE CELLAR' Wine cellars are usually kept at a 55* temp. That would DELAY putrefaction. OTOH IIRC the furnace was not far away. It's heat could have accelerated putrefaction. Maybe she was killed closer to it and only moved much later.
1,700 posted on 08/24/2006 1:39:21 PM PDT by hoosiermama
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